Blondin, you have some Esplanin to do.

I see nothing wrong with this organized group's activities. They are orderly, have agreed-upon goals and are using the tools provided to them to reach their goal. No one cried foul when the arbor project used the same methods to obliterate the adfarmers (except the adfarmers).

They seem to be taking something that is illegal and morally reprehensible in RL and refusing to accept that it be used for internet role play fodder. And honestly, you all taking swipes at one of their members is not going to deter them in the least bit. All you are doing is giving their group advertising space - these people will not be deterred by anything you post here.

And I do not know where this attitude came from that you can depict anything you want on the internet as long as you have enough bandwidth to do so. The metaverse is fairly new and society is trying to catch up.

I remember a time when I could smoke in a movie theatre - it was my right. But if I tried it today I would be nearly beat to death and arrested. And community groups took action to make it that way. The next generation of forward thinkers will not assume they have any right to use the internet to work out their rape fantasy in a public server.

Of course you don't. You don't even object to people breaking the rules they're supposedly defending to reach their goals.

Such effort might benefit local rape crisis hotlines and womens shelters in need of volunteers much more.

http://www.rainn.org/get-involved/rape-crisis-center-information



The mainland cries for the broke adfarmers.

The difference is trying to legislate morality and censor the thoughts of an activity of consenting adults. Adfarmers set out to intentionally harrass neighbors for as much profit as possible.



Woot! Sensationalism is alive and well. Unless smokers being beaten to death is strictly the fodder of FOX News, there is a big difference between that and getting thrown out of the theater.

Public server sounds more like what a library would be. SL is a private company, and generally speaking, people pay to be here. It is a big world with lots of things to do and OTHER places to go.

Chronologically, this document postdated the ARs I sent out; at the time this was composed, the group was actually unaware of the 2007 SL Blog posting on rape. At the time of my ARs, I had read it, and believed (and continue to believe until LL tells me differently) that it has the force of policy. Frankly, as I've said already on this thread, I don't think LL itself has a very clear conception of what is or isn't prohibited. I've asked the Documentation Group to try to clarify and consolidate their rules for that reason.


As I have said repeatedly, legislation is not MY preferred route, although, frankly, I am becoming so disheartened by the knee-jerk responses to my attempts to initiate dialogue here that I am beginning to wonder . . .

Actually, that's not fair. I HAVE run across people on these forums and in-world, proponents of BDSM, who have engaged me. I have learned a great deal from them: my understanding of the cultural and personal component of BDSM, for instance, is much more sophisticated than it once was. I am sincerely grateful to those who have taught me things, and who have, in turn, actually listened to me.

There is an implicit irony here. I am here, on this forum, trying to discuss these issues. I have a perspective, but it is one that HAS modified following discussions with others. Honestly, though, I am getting tired of being misrepresented, dismissed, or flamed. If we CAN'T talk about this stuff and achieve a mutually respectful accommodation of our differing perspectives, it IS going to come down to a battle to get LL to censor content. And, in their characteristic ham-fisted way, you can be sure that LL's response will be awful.

That's not a threat, it's a prediction. The days of the "wild west" in SL, as someone earlier observed, are over. Welcome to RL, and all of the annoying and messy cultural negotiations that come with being part of a diverse society.


My response to this question should be implicit in what I have said above. Ideally, we work together to determine that. Or, we wait for LL to do so. Which would you prefer?


I've answered this many times before, and don't have the energy or inclination to do it again. Check out the SLLUFN wiki bibliography on evidence of harm from extreme pornography.


Well, that rather depends on what those other people choose to do. I don't think society should write anyone a blank cheque: the fact that someone chooses to do something doesn't mean that the choice they have made is ethical or responsible. Try consensual sex in the middle of a RL department store one day, for instance. Or target practice with your new rifle on Main Street. See how people THERE "respect" your "consensual choices."


Yep, Ian, I do. And that's why I am here, trying to discuss this.

If LL continues to tolerate your political polemics on this board, there is no reason why they should not welcome the DNC, RNC, Operation Rescue, and Planned Parenthood spamming threads with their viewpoints as well.

Please take your diatribes to a board which welcomes political discourse.
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Sorry I have not read all 19 pages, but who died and left you resident monitor? Lots of crap gets spammed on these threads. These boards have been well known for entertaining political discourse.

What is your idea of what should come out of these negotiations?

The content you're talking about is in the process of being zoned either into private residences in Mature regions, or into Adult rated regions.

The chances of anyone innocently stumbling across it is being reduced to practically zero.

It seems like the community engaged in these activities has already been pushed to make significant accomodations already. The content you're referring to has effectively been zoned out of public on something like 95% of the mainland.

What possible incentive could there be for any further "negotiations" by the providers of this content? How can they make any further accomodations short of having their content completly banned from Second Life?

Perhaps that is the goal.

All right, I'll try and "talk" to you...



It's not against the CS, are sorry or still glad you did it and ready to do it again?

Why didn't you find out before you took such a serious step, please don't fob it off by saying a few AR's never hurt anyone, that is no excuse here, one could kill someones hard earned SL account.




Well it's your group, your policy, are you willing to chage the policy or are you just talking the talk?

Seriously, there's other better things you could do for the world than ban r/p on a computer game, like helping real victims.



If you have learned from people, Why are you even bringing bdsm into rape issues?

Lias accused me of being a rapist yesterday, like that is so far from the truth of anyone but r/l rapists. bdsm is about as far away as you can get from rape as it is so based on the choice about power.



Look really you have bullsh*ted along so badly, denying with all this with fronts of fancy words and excuses, no one likes that, you too have flamed with the rest of us. To be honest, you keep saying people are picking on you when they haven't been, like yesterday, posting my name out of the blue in a bad way, then saying I was attacking you... Do you know I never had siad it was you organising AR groups until that post got me wondering of you were too. And now by my terms you are. I find you often think you're being attacked in ways you aren't.

I'll admit that I did lump you in with the likes of Lias, basically because you have the same agenda on censorship, be it different things, but then realised your not like her.


It might do, because even though you speak nicely, what the undercurrent is is deeply offensive... it is censorship of sexualities. While a lot of it might be informed it is very one sided and a lot of it too is ignorant like the bringing of bdsm into this rape issue.


Sorry making money will probably win and you guys will loose, 50% of people do sex r/p on here... you'll get a token effort for public show if anything.



Some things can't be worked out, you want to censor, I am opposed.

A committee on what is and what isn't sexually violent according to what ever criteria is a joke... especially because you want to actually enforce it on others.

"You may not pull her hair!"

Unless on my own paid for parcel if I needed to, I won't decide on any ones r/p nor let anyone decide on mine. How's that?

My imput is that "we" live and let live, different to yours... neither view can ever accommodate the other one, it's just how it is.



So on respecting peoples right to make up their own minds, consent to another what ever they want, that's a wordy "no" from you. I don't think anyone would consent to been shot at, do you?



Yep, Ian, I do. And that's why I am here, trying to discuss this.[/QUOTE]

Ok, if you understand your beliefs aren't ok for all, isn't it the right thing to do to just enforce them on your own parcel and not people who don't want it?

What is right about forcing beleifs on people who don't want it.. It's fanatical.

Hey Ian. One word for you:

Casino

Money maker extrodinaire now banned. Sex industry doesn't even come close to the amount of $L that traded hands on a daily basis.

Oh yeh, but online gambling is actually illegal in the USA isn't it? I am not sure... Online r/p isn't though..

If I'm right about the gambling, I'll hold to the money theory.

This is why the sex industry took such a hit after gambling was gone..It was a big part of income to the sex industry..

thats actually why it ended up leaving.

True in a way. The bottom line is money (LL's money), and LL seems to be trying to put some distance between themselves and the sex industry.

Expect to see anything that would be "embarrasing" to the Lab regulated off of the grid in the near future. Grass roots groups lobbying just helps them to provide an excuse. LL is a pretty PG bunch. Their vision of the metaverse does not really include porn, especially anything controversial.

Ok, well, yeh, I am kind of new to SL and LL and Aussie and America culture is so different on the public's freedom & morality. So I dunno really.

I guess the push for schools and companies would make them want to hide sex and if they get income of those, they could dump the sex then.

If Linden Lab wanted to dump the sex out of Second Life, they'd have done it instead of coming up with the Adult Content policy.

Income = tier. Banning stuff does not hurt them. Land is sold, tier continues. My guess is that the end game for sex is pretty vanilla in the privacy of your own parcel. Zindra seems to be the first step in cleaning house.

Not dump sex. Regulate. Bear in mind that the whole sex thing took them by surprize. Nasty little buggers that we are, we co-opted their platform for our own purposes. Recent actions on their part show a concerted effort to regain control of the grid.

Political opinions by individuals, yes. But RL businesses are not allowed to advertise on these boards, and what is happening here is advertising by a PAC (political action committee).

Scylla, I understand completely. You've said that you're reluctant to take this issue to legislation. I imagine so, since causes like yours have lost repeatedly. The courts have shown themselves reluctant to take on the task of sifting through content item by item to say this is good, this is bad.

Instead, PACs and grassroots organizations have successfully implemented a policy of leaning on individual corporations. ISPs can and often will choose to limit free speech on their networks rather than put up with endless harassment by PACs. Congratulations.

LL permitting RL political organizations to pursue this tactic against them on their own boards is laughable.
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Actually gambling in SL was roleplay. $L is not a RL currency. That didn't stop LL from instituting the ban. Sure, you could cash out, but the actual gambling was for play money. No crime was comitted unless you cashed out.

Point is that LL will move to protect their interests (obvious). If rape role play becomes an issue in the press, it will dissapear via restrictions. Groups opposed to various sexual roleplay types realize this, and will attempt to manipulate press coverage in their favor. This is the way free speech works. Rape enthusiasts have the more difficult task of drumming up popular support for an issue that will engender little sympathy from the world community at large.

Online gambling was made illegal in the U.S.; that money is digital until someone cashes out also. LL's hands were tied on that issue.

Wasn't aware that Scylla was spokesperson for a RL PAC. Sorry if true. You are correct that the tactic of "harassment" by PACs works wonders. Of course such "harassment" is also free speech.

The classic collision.

True. Very very few people would characterize themselves as rape enthusiasts. Many would balk at losing free speech.
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Not to beat a dead horse, but as a former casino owner...

Role play online gambling for linden bucks. Rape is illegal too. I said it then and I'll say it again, First gambling, next sex.

Yes, but the Scylla is utilizing free speech as well. That is always the problem in these debates.