Does Virtual Cheating Still Count?

Maybe it also comes down to how much people care about their relationship. Some people would gladly see their partner find somebody else.

So listen up folks!! - If your partner is happy to see you flirting around, ask yourself if it's because they're secure or whether they just don't give a damn.

Ok, I've been away for a Bit, so I'm Catching up from Page #7, Sorry for the Length.



"Instead" is REALLY the extreme,, it's the point when the On line relationship has become Damaging to RL. That is the reason people Use "Instead" they are Illustrating their point by highlighting Worst Case scenario. The point of View is NOT Invalid, but it Should be understood in it's Context.

Perfectly Expressed. The fact that there IS no One-size-fits-all Model of "The Relationship" is very hard to accept for many people, but that's because they have spent a lifetime being fed the notion of the "All or Nothing" scenario. Inflexability can be More damaging to Relationships than too much openness.

All Right Squeeze. On the Nose in One. The problem in this Thread is that Some people assume their Interpretation of what constitutes Cheating is the Only One. Most of the discussion here has been simply to define the Term "Cheating" correctly The Very name is self defining, Dishonesty is the PRIMARY factor. Where an open, or polygamous relationship exists, Dishonesty, or deception Cannot be assumed, and it would quite probably Not be tolerated. Every relationship has it's own Dynamic, and IF the relationship IS Open, and All parties have full awareness no Dishonesty is taking place. One cannot even substitute The Word "Infidelity" (More clearly defined as a lack of loyalty) for "Cheating" Because the Relationships Parameters ACCEPT the Openness, so if one has an On line relationship with a third party it is FULLY within the agreed upon Boarders, and therefore Not in Violation of the level of loyalty demanded.

In Your Opinion.
AND Conan, IF an open relationship is NOT acceptable to you then of course your spouse having such a relationship despite Knowing your feelings on the matter, that WOULD be Cheating. you do NOT however possess the Right, or the Wisdom to Impose that Opinion on the relationships of Others. No one is saying your ideal is wrong for you, But It's your opinion, and the way your relationships work best for you but it isn't panacea, It Cannot be applied everywhere.
If you Feel it should, then you are going to have to address each of the points made with regard to open relationships, and the honesty, and agreement involved and refute them with something more substantial than simply "You're wrong, and that's just the way it is." We're Willing to Listen, But you need to Elaborate.

Michael, there is no need to argue with him, His point of View is as valid as any of ours. The issue is VERY subjective, and we can Only really relate personal Opinion with the understanding we do Not advocate Our model (Conans, or Mine, or yours) as the one and only ideal for All.

And the two of you Launching into rediculous personal Attacks doesn't help Either of you make a point, It just Lowers the tone of the discussion. There are times when you have to be mature, and Agree to Disagree.

I Also fully agree that "Cheating" or "Infidelity" cannot be confined to the purely Physical UNLESS the whole core relationship is based solely upon the Purely Physical. I'm Quite capable of Falling in love with someone, and never engaging in sexual activities with them. But if i'm Finding a Deep emotional Intimacy with a Person outside my marriage, and my spouse neither knows, nor approves of such a Relationship, then Infidelity is DEFINATELY an Issue. I may be perfectly comfortable with the idea that i am taking nothing from my wife, but she may feel VERY differently on the matter, and after all, For it to be a Relationship, BOTH our opinions must matter, and Her Feelings Must be Considered. Conan, After Listening to your arguements, I can respect your point of View, But i can't agree with it. You can feel free to use that aguement (Purely hypotheticly of course) with your partner, BUT if she feels differently, and she probably will, You will find yourself in the same emotional Boat as if you bent your paramour over the Sofa in your Mother-in-laws house during Thanksgiving Dinner. Your partners expectations of the relationship MUST be respected as well Whether the relationship is an open one or Not.

Perhaps, But you will never be in their bedroom when they "make-Up' after one of these Set-to's Chances are it's the best Sex either of them have ever Had, Just because a relationship is Turbulent, Doesn't mean it's Unhappy, I lived with another woman for a while, and We Physicly Fought, We would Attack one another. No reason, one of us would just come Flying at the other, and we would tear the room apart fighting, and after,, WOW. Whether by spoken, or unspoken agreement, a little strife can add a lot of spice. don't take it at face value.

But,, and Please give consideration to this, IF you are going behind your partners back Doing something you Know they disapprove of,(Right or wrong) Aren't you A; Lying to them, and B; Showing gross disrespect for your partner AND your relationship with them? Even if the Activity ISN'T Cheating, the Concealment, and Disrespect are a betrayal of trust andDamaging to the relationship. You are telling your partner, they Cannot trust you, and you do Not respect their feelings. In Any relationship Conan, that IS wrong. The Concealment is the Sin, the Reasoning for it, even if it Were Considered would Only make the Matter Worse, Not better.

Again, i'm sorry for the length, but this IS one of the best Discussions we have had on the Forums in a long time.

Angel.

Yes to A, but as for B - no, that's not the case at all. What I'm saying is that in that instance the partner who thinks it's cheating is best off left in ignorance because of their warped ideas - best they don't know so that you can have a quiet life. It's only damaging to the relationship if they find out - lying is the best thing all-round. People think they want honesty, but that's exactly what they don't want - do you really want an honest answer to the question of whether those pants make your ass look big? You're not going to like the answer. You kid yourself if you think honesty will help matters.

Or rather than lying all the time, perhaps you can go find a partner that holds the same views as you and also doesn't have a fat ass?

That's a pretty tall order. Better off concentrating just on the ass thing - afterall, lying is easier than having to listen to her talk.

I think you've contributed to this thread in a wonderful way and you have such a lovely little bum.

Bye!!!

See, that's what I'm talking about. No one wants the truth

I think you've clearly read all of my posts in detail and are not reactionary in the least.

It's true that honesty is not *always* the best policy, all adages aside. My ex-therapist advised me the same: you need to distinguish between disclosures that are done to help yourself (i.e. assuage your own guilty conscience, consequences be damned) and disclosures that are done to help the other and your relationship with her/him.

As Angelique and others have so well said, it's really up to everyone involved. My SL partner and I have been together in SL for 1 1/2 years. Neither of us has an RL commitment, but due to RL issues I won't go into here, have agreed not to bring our SL into RL. We have also agreed however, that should either of us meet someone IRL, we give up the SL relationship ASAP. Still be friends, but not longer partners. I will not be some poor girl's "other woman" and both of us want any RL relationship to have the chance to grow without either of us having another emotional commitment. We also choose to be monogamous in SL, because we do have a vested, emotional commitment to each other while we're here.

We choose the way we act because of the people we are. However, there are many who make other choices. BUT, the real truth is, you must talk it over with both any RL significant other and any SL partner. If one person in the chain disagrees with any part of relationship string, then to continue with it would be cheating on someone. And if you feel you have to hide it, that's cheating too.

/me pays her two cents and moves along.

Well chere, i AM Married, and i don't know if it will surprise you or not, But being Lesbian doesn't make me immune from my Wife asking if a pair of pants makes her @ss look Big. She did once, and i told her "No, the four doughnuts you ate after lunch make your @ss look big, the pants are just trying to contain it." After she got Over the initial shock of my Respose, I told her i felt Questions like that were Unfair, in that she is Always beautiful to me (Definately NOT a lie on ANY level). We talked, and she agreed if she is Concerned at all about her weight, to just come out, and ask for help instead of Fishing. We can do that with Each other because one of our hardest Rules is to be honest with Each other.

As to an Extra-Marital Affair of any kind, any time someone says they are keeping it Secret to "protect their partner" i tend to take that with a grain of salt. Even if they mean it i tend to place it in the catagory of self deception. If your partners Stance Is that what you are doing constitutes Cheating, then by continuing the activity Despite her feelings, AND deceiving her about it, then you ARE Cheating. You ARE telling her, no matter what she feels about it, Her Feelings do NOT Matter to you. IF you Really were concerned with protecting her then the Time to lay this issue out to her isn't After the fact, But Before. Let her Know that you are Not prepared to live by her definition of Fidelity and allow her the Chance to Decide if She wishes to Continue in the relationship under Your Definition of Fidelity. In the End she May decide to Amend her definitions, In which event your relationship can Continue, OR she will Move On, In which case you Have successfully protected her from being hurt, NOT by her own feelings, but by a partner who is not prepared to consider them. In the End If her feelings on the matter are not something you can live with, then You also are better looking elsewhere for a mate who will Respect Your needs Rather than lowering yourself by Lying.

I Never Kid Myself about Honesty helping, beleive However that you may be misleading yourself about how damaging a casual Deception might be. I've seen small lies destroy Very Solid appearing relationships. Sometimes the truth Hurts, but it hurts more living with the Lies.


I can see this also to a point. If one is engaging in practices that might Damage the relationship, and Admit to them to their spouse, With Full Intent of Continuing the practices, then that would be for Alleviating Guilt. If you slipped, did it Once, and never ever ever intend to do it again, and there is no way at all she could ever find out,,, Hard one. My Personal Inclination would STILL be to tell her, and Do whatever i Have to do to regain her trust and respect, But that is presupposing that my sense of honor wouls allow me to Fall into this situation in the first place. It would not. I've been Married a couple of years now, and i have had several Serious Offers (IRL Mostly, and Only once on Line).and my Honesty, My Knowing how it would Effect my Wife, And Myself whether she Knew or Not has ALWAYS made me Refuse. Even your Ex-Therapist is Justifying compounding one Lie with another, and If your spouse eventually DID find out, i really don't think she would give a Dingo's Kidney what your therapist told you.
Honesty IS the best policy, because IF you adopt it, you will never find yourself trying to Figure out how to Hide the girlfriend from the Wife.

Angel.

Actually that does not make the point of the would-you-tell-test invalid. Cheating is knowingly break explicit or implicit agreements you have with your partner about contact with others. Knowing your partner will consider certain contact wrong and doing it anyway can mean one of two things: either you are breaking explicit agreements (a clear-cut case of cheating) or you are playing the 'that is not mentioned in the rules' card. The latter is like punching your tennis opponent in the face and then claiming that is okay because there was nothing in the rules about using physical violence to win the match. That is wrong, and it is cheating.

In the case of virtual cheating, you basically avoid discussing the subject in order to ensure there will be a loophole left for you to crawl through. To me that sounds an awful lot like breaking faith in a relationship.

Well said Suzy

Angel.

See, I think if it's a one-off, non-habitual thing, non-repeating, etc. ... it's better she didn't know. Good for you to work out your own problems in therapy, but telling her isn't going to help anything, in my view, as long as it is an isolated incident. Now, if you are doing it regularly, repeatedly, habitually ... it's time to fess up to her about what you have done/are doing and also to yourself about how maybe you can't really be in a committed relationship at the moment.

Problem is, lies are addictive. Get away with it once, See your therapist, and convince yourself deceiving your lover is all for the Best, and it Comes that much Easier the Second time the opportunity to "Slip' comes up. Now everybody mentions this one off never to be found out Lover, But Really, how often does that happen? How certain can you be you will never have this woman drop into your life Unexpectedly, short of burying her Exanguinated Corpse along side a Deserted New Mexico Back Road i Mean? That kind of certainty never exists, and Every day after will be the day your lover COULD find out that you have been Lying to her for Weeks/Months/years. and when she Does Find out, How easily do you think it will come to her, to believe that it was Once, and Only Once, since you obviously got away with it for So long?
Nope, Better to simply never put yourself in that Situation in the First Place, And if you Find yourself there, through an act of Monumental Selfishness, it's Best to remove the burden Permanantly, and Trust your Lover. I could forgive my Wife making a one off Error in Judgement, I would find it Harder to Forgive her making a Fool of me for months, or years. This Too is an eventuality we have Both Discusses, along with many other sensative relationship issues. We each have our principles, but we are Both human, so We Talk, We Discuss, and we Come to some kind of Understanding that will Keep us healthy, even if the Worst happens. We are Committed to One Another.

Angel.

As I said, if it is a repeat performance you need to evaluate -- I am not advocating people engaging in long-term, repeated deception. If it is a on-time thing, however .. disclosure is NOT always the best option (although it may make you feel better because you are cleaning your hands).

You're dong more than Washing your hands, you are removing a Threat to your Future relationship, And if you are Talking it out properly, Perhaps with Aid of a councellor, you are strengthening your relationship.
It's about Taking Responsibility, instead of Ducking it, and hoping for the best.

Angel.

I know what a passionate but turbulent relationship is - I wasnt describing one.

I was describing a situation where one partner actively spies on the other over Porn becuase she feels when he looks at porn he is cheating on her.

So, she'd be sanguine to be on the receiving end of constant surveillance? Or do special rules apply to her, or what?

LOL, you'd have to know her. I doubt she cosidered that at all.

Hideous boy! Just you wait till you put on pounds of your own, Mr. Dynamite.

Cheating, can only surely be assessed by the one being 'cheated' on? The one considered cheating isn't perhaps the best one to make that decision.

Anyone who makes long drawn out statements about what they consider cheating when 'caught', has already convinced themselves and justified the act in their own mind already. Seeking a balance to any assumption, prior to taking action when dealing with a partnership relationship, is what perhaps makes for a stable relationship.

I suppose we just disagree about that.

For what its worth Victorria, I agree with you.

I'm going to go with - yes it's cheating if you emotions are involved and you know you have to hide it. And no, not if it's just a visual masturbatory aid.

The real problems emerge when for what ever reason your virtual affair ends - 'cause then chances are you're miserable and you can't even tell your rl partner what has you down in the dumps.

People forget often - and it's been stated over and over - that there are real people behind the avi's - with real emotions that can get trampled. I would say if you just want the experience then hop in and out of the group orgy rooms or just hook up and don't even trade cards. And possibly use an alt instead of your "real" avi - like that you can just forget about it when it's done.

Thinking further, turn on a dvd if you need the visual stimulation and don't risk your self further- the dvd won't get mad if you put it back in the case and forget about it for months.