Opinions on a Vampire Child AV

Personally i don't think LindenLab has a problem with sexual ageplay. i know as a PR move they had to make a stance against it ...though it annoys me (a little) that people seem to forget that at the \same\ time LindenLab made its edict against sexual ageplay LindenLab ALSO made an edict \against\ portraying sexual violence. LindenLab made a statement against portraying adult/adult rape play or sexual violence play. No one seems to bring this up. Where are our discussions about realms of forced sexual fantasies sims where adult/adult sexually violent acts are portrayed? Why aren't the sexually deviant adults christened with threads several times a week?

i dunno. Anyway that's a tangent.

i think LindenLab will make "moves" against things (like loads of companies) only when they are pressured to do so by the public or media. Especially the media.

LindenLab allowed sexual ageplay until the media turned attention against it.
LindenLab allowed adult/adult portrayals of sexual violence until media attention was drawn too heavily to that too.

LindenLab will likely allow child vampyrs for now, and forever.. or.. at least until the media turns against that.

In fact, even during the edict LindenLab made against sexual ageplay, some Lindens said even sexual ageplay wouldn't be punished if it happened in a private sim between closed doors, so long as this private sim didn't "promote" that this estate was about sexual ageplay.

i don't see a problem with child vampyr avatars (likely because i have an "immortal" child avatar). But.. i do find the "typical" child avatar groups to be somewhat hesitant to be around "dark" children. It would be really lovely if there were "dark child" avatar groups.

To answer your own questions.. i can't answer for what LindenLab as a company will do (none of us can). But, one shouldn't be naive enough to think that a company's PR decisions have \anything\ to do with a company's actual "personal beliefs".

I would hate to think that the powers that be at linden lab are for sexual age play, violent ageplay and the like

I for one am glad it is banned, it is wrong on so many levels (in my opinion, other opinions may vary)

They made a statement against violent ADULT to ADULT play too. No ageplay. They made a statement against two adult looking avatars engaging in sexual violence.

i'm fine with people thinking sexual ageplay is wrong, typically i think people who believe this have only been exposed to "online" ageplay. In RL i belong to ageplay groups. And believe me, when you see a 43 year old woman, dressed in pretty pigtails being spanked by her 38 year old "daddy" the image of pedophilia doesn't "leap" inside your mind.

Sexual ageplay in virtual worlds somehow got distorted into pedophilia.

Personally i'd like to think that most people are for adults being able to express themselves, in the company of other adults, however they want. You know, some people think being homosexual is "wrong on some many levels" and even want homosexuals to be killed, jailed or worse. That doesn't mean this (rather LARGE number of people) are right, or thinking logically.

i'm absolutely against pedophilia. But Ageplay (even sexual ageplay) is not that.

The difference between RL and SL is that an adult playing a kid in uniform still looks like an adult and could never be visually a child. Here in SL the adult playing the child looks exactly like a child and would really only be of interest sexually to paedphiles.

^^ pfft, changed accounts to check transactions - Denise Bonetto

well then, why don't those who want to "age play" in SL, stay as an adult with the pretty pigtails

the issue is not so much "age" playing... as it is those doing it are actually depicting a child, not a childlike adult, there is a huge different

I am glad they banned the violence too, if you ask me the world is already too violent, and being able to go somewhere, even if it is a virtual world that has a ban on violence is nice

(at least I can control that part of my existence, even if just a small amount, I can not control it in my RL, not like I can stop the violence out there in the real world)

(looks like someone else made the same point I did, just I typed too slow LOL)

I have been avatar for long time with no sex drive in world so infact my first guy was born January 23, 2003 and never put on dick until recently.
So yes there are people here it isn't about sex yet does seem like a lot of people assume everything is sexual.
And Gabriele we both you've been here long enough to know asking question like this what people automatically think regardless of it's your intention.

Hi Rhaorth, your input is both appreciated and welcome, thank you

That goes for everyone participating, thanks.
There seems to me to be a lot of uncertainy still over it all.

My own thoughts are that as a society we don't really mind our kids reenacting violent acts (even cowboys and indians is very violent) and yet adults depicting children who are depicting violence is outlawed by Rhaorth discovery of LL words (thanks for finding that Rhaorth).
However Hana makes great points also in that they only pay lip service to some things and not others. It seems hard to discern intent from them.
Perhaps some one who might have encountered this in the SL children community might be able to help us understand the real LL position?

Obviously you could take the view of steer clear of the hornets nest to be safe but "ordinary" SL children have decided that despite all the barriers put in their way it is better to pursue that than take the safe route so to speak so would steering clear on this slightly different take be giving in too easily I wonder?

Quite true FD but I wanted to set the record straight. It is the discussion of the issue that mainly interests me and perhaps enabling those who want to do it to proceed at least feeling some of the issues have been discussed so they can take an informed way forward.

In fact Gabrielle I have been non-sexual human being for long time until recently so yes it is possible to be non-sexual human being in world and out.
In fact I think majority of human beings out in world and offline have had more sex then I have had in last 5 years.

And that is fine because that is your SL done your way. However what about people who want SL their way too and have wanted to explore this dark children type of rp? Surely they should be able to have SL their way too? Should your choice be forced upon them too?

My inner child bit of Pugsley and Wednesday from Adam's family I just don't put on the child avatar cause of fear these days much.
I have very dark, wounded inner child and he/she shows up when I play with him so I just don't rezz them out of respect for others but still are their hiding in the shadows they just don't rezz often in world

nope, my choices should not

however LindenLab choices will and are

I would not go to a sim that has children depicted in such a way, nor would I want it on my land, and I would hope that anyone RPing in such a way would respect my wishes when on my area of SL that I pay to keep and have

gor is a good example, I am totally not into it, and yes I have tried it, it is not for me
my SL daughter is a free woman in gor, do I mind? nope, I still love her to pieces, but she respects that I am not into gor and doesn't push it onto me, and even when visiting me, if she is in costume she apologizes (why I dunno, they have beautiful clothes LOL) and when I had my club running and popular, one rule I was sure to enforce was if you RP gor, don't do it on my land, in my club, or around me when in my space.

of course if I am in a gor sim I expect to see it, if I were in a vamp sim and saw a vamp kid, I would be like meh,... not my cup of tea but so be it


as for if it is against the rules.... best ones to ask, are LL themselves


and how can we not see sex everywhere in SL, it is shoved in our faces everywhere in SL

I am discovering this first hand, making clothing
I made a very nice, classy dress not too long ago... darjeeling, some of you might remember it
recently I created a tubedress, very low almost showing nips, short skirt, ya get the picture...
guess which sells better....

sex sells, and in SL ppl want to make money, be it to spend, cover tier or RL expenses... it sells

so yeah, sex is everywhere

hell even the OP admits to sexually seducing ppl as her avatar...

See this is exactly my point. Pugsley and Wednesday from the Addams family - two dark children if ever there were. Should there be fear and shame at wanting to play them or children like them?

Rhaorth, obviously nobody reasonable would shove something you dislike in your face on your land. Respect is the key to all roleplay anyway. Trouble with asking Lindens is you never really get an answer or the answer confuses you more than before.

That is why I think the experiences of people like Imnotgoing and Mari are useful, Imnotgoing because she seems as though she is a kind of dark child and Mari because she talks with the Lindens and being a big SL child advocate as well as playing a child probably has a better idea than you or me.

However that said as well as discussing what is the state of today, I would like this discussion to be about what is reasonable to do in the absence of any further guidance from LL. What is morally acceptable for instance? Most people watched and loved the Addams Family or The Munsters even if they are not particularly agreeable to dark children - which is probably the broader topic as vampire children are just one type of dark child and all dark children portrayals will have the same issues I think.

Is this part of the disneyfication of SL or is there really a reasonable objection to dark child that should make us abhor playing one?

Even as child I when allowed myself to dream, imagine or role played as children do I always ended up being too scary the other kids very, very much and they didn't want to play with me
any more.
At different points even amongst the kinkiest, supposively open minded people I met in my local real life fetish/leather community I freaked them out when I let that side out.
It is hard being different or too scary, there is lot of pressure to be like everyone else
and normal, be it kid or grown up, pixel or other wise when you're just not.
I have just always enjoy making people scared and freaked out but as I got older I became more sensitive to feelings of others and it much harder to go in that place.
The difference is over time I just don't let them out unless I know someone well and know its okay and safe to be that evil demented kid.
Most of time I am not scary, I am timid, maybe bit moody and depressed, very gentle but we all have our dark sides be at play or other wise.
By the way if you ever watch South Park those kids can be pretty dark even sexual at times.
They are still on the air.

/me understands

What there isn't any? *shrugs*

When you were a child, though you were dark, you were still an innocent and why should anyone find that abhorrent or say that it is wrong?
This is the dark child that I am thinking of a lot when discussing this topic. When I was a girl I use to have thoughts about being a vampire and living forever in a kind of Tim Burton type world. I am certainly a lot less innocent now and yet would SL deny me and people like me to explore that again and if the answer is yes, should it be like that?

The thing is if I dressed up as Puglsey want to go to local dungeon that had sexual poseballs I would be asking for trouble if I wanted to cut off my own head or my sisters...
I would be kicked out.
Meanwhile not saying anything is wrong with being gay cause I am....there
is no censorship when one of the South Park boy's collect sperm samples from the guy in alley or they maim or kill each other.
Personally I find it funny but also bit hypocritical, yet same time I get annoyed that
certain either fake or real kids troll Aol's gay bbs saying they are kids wanting sex.
I got dark side, everyone does, but why is it automatically assumed if you're gay you're
bigger pervert or pedophile?
Yes there is whole lot of history within gay men's community getting introduced into seductively seduced or by unwanted sexual advances as teens from grown men.
Yes that
isn't morally right any more then if it happen to young female girl but difference is our culture
or many cultures blame the children for being evil ones....
Children are sexual beings and not always good and innocent.
Damien perfect example of evil child, he was evil child he was the Devil.
There is numerous images of Evil and even Evil sexual children.
There is numerous media images of Children as evil and seductive beings.
It is just does not seem welcomed. allowed or wanted here even amongst adults but anywhere else they show subtle to blatant images of evil, seductive child actors and actress who are real children.
But as Adult residents of Second life we just can't have it here if it includes anything sexual.
No it doesn't seem fair but you know no one can control what is your mind either.
There no scripts for that, regardless of why you're having the fantasy, thoughts of being evil kid no one can take away your thoughts yet.
Yes Gabrielle there is many example of Evil Children in the collective consciousness
or they wouldn't show up in stories, movies or the media.
There must be something about that calls some to participate in this regardless if it is
fantasy or horror movie because there wouldn't be any thing like that out there if someone wasn't getting something out of it.

I agree there is a lot of hypocrisy in our society of such things, however in the interests of staying on topic and not getting the thread locked, I am not going to delve in to the issues you bring up.

I guess I just wanted to know where certain lines are drawn, not just with LL but with the existing SL children. Does the SL child community embrace or try to distance itself from dark children?
And a hypothetical situation, if someone were to set up a dark children community that did fairly innocent but still dark activities, would there be grid wide condemnation and an LL shutdown?
Remember children can be capable of terrible things but not know that they are wrong, so in that respect they are still innocent.

I was never innocent child I had to relearn that as a Adult personally.
Society and even in Second life there is many difficult to comprehend, weird and unfair things but it shouldn't damper your imagination either.
Just some may not get it.
I am creating really, really dark things involving Adult men in SL I understand not many may get it or appreciate it but it doesn't mean I should stop and I don't share this any where it isn't allowed or unwanted.
It makes me happy to draw my chest open wide with heart hanging out because it helps me personally with something I am dealing with.
Probably not the idea of art most would appreciate or get but so what.
As long as it isn't hurting anyone else or going to get you banned it's really no one else's business.
OOps should I delete something? Sorry Mods and readers.
I have been drinking first time in years bit out of it.
I have had sex recently first time in years and lot is coming up for me.
I haven't been hanging out in forum because of stuff I am dealing with irl and in world.
I don't know about dark child community, I think if it was done carefully and off radar yes possibly it could work but if it was publicly listed it might cause some trouble for the players by others.

Children are a staple in horror stories, either as something to truly fight for, or as the most terrifying or poignant corruption.
If adults cannot use this ages-old literary device in the stories they weave, then the hysteria has *really* gone too far down the slippery slope.

The only problem I can see with vamp-kids is that people seem to lack subtlety. Even here in this discussion, all we can talk about is sex. Vampirism is rife with erotic overtones. But, don't hastily assume it's purely sexual. Eros and kink can exist in modesty. I'm pretty guilty of being pretty crude myself, but, I believe my own behavior as a loli avatar is very erotic, full of kink and sass, yet rarely if not never crosses the line of sexuality.

Non-sexual vampires exist in fiction. They may not be the truest form of the intent of the character. But, a lack of purity of a depiction that comes from the mind just goes to show how great the mind is.

If vamp-kids were to really be a problem, the the whole doll culture could never exist as well. The crude and simple mind will see a doll key as simply another iteration of a slave collar, see the diminutive size of the avatar, and assume the worst. But, that's hardly a LL or TOS issue. Doll culture is thriving in SL as it applies to the aesthetic of steam punk, Victorian, and goth role play lifestyles. So, it begs the question, what could be the problem here?

If you want a fun example of a child vampire, check out this Anime/Manga that's currently available in the US, happens to have erotic content, and has not sparked any uproar at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsukuyomi_-Moon_Phase-
http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,1514,tjluht,tsukuyomi___moo.html

A more comedic example is this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chibi_Vampire
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/manga.php?id=5431

I, myself, have been involved with dolls and vampires. I have been invited to visit CoLA. And, I lost them, but I have scripted teeth somewhere.

Most scary horror stories have children in them.
As child it really bother me that I had all these scary stories in my head but as I got older realized maybe others do too.
I use to think it meant something in my child mind was wrong or evil about me....took me long time as adult to realize there nothing wrong with darker imagination, not everyone though appreciates it, some may even say you're possessed by Satan himself....but
if that is true so be it.
Their are no rules about darkness in TOS that I am aware of personally on mature land.
I would be more concerned about things getting out of hand or people coming in causing problems in that type of rp here personally.
I personally wouldn't be comfortable participating because I know I have to be constantly censoring my imagination and it can go in pretty dark places even within the TOS

Pfft... I started as a female and had a dick on within a week!
Slacker!


Really though, my opinion is a vampiric child is fine as long as it isn't construed sexually (Like deriving pleasure from feeding, etc). Though it's often a sexual portrayal, it isn't on it's own a sexual thing, in my mind.

Hell, I'm active in the BDSM community, and yet the extent I do anything even I could be a child av, I think. I don't have sex, don't do sexual play in-world, and even leave chat range if anything sexual is going on. I get tied up occasionally, but not in a sexual manner, really, and what little kid doesn't end up tied up at some point? I know I did...

Anyhow, my opinion = vamp child is fine.

Thanks for joining the discussion Imnotgoing
I had hoped you would, as your experiences are very valid in this.

Now as for me, I am going to sleep, g'night all and thanks for all your contributions VV