DO NOT use SL to buy anything using your bank account, mine got cleared out
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
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05-02-2008 17:42
From: Gracey Lafleur Who knows who is getting the money for it. When I had this problem last year, I talked to both LL and my bank and it was definitely the bank taking the fees. From: someone All i know it is being taken from me and yes, it is a screw up on the Linden's part. LL didn't consider it a screw up when I spoke to them...they'd moved their bank to the UK and declined responsibility if a Resident's bank decided to charge fees for processing payments through there. As I said, their solution was that I should find a payment method which didn't charge the fees. And I quote: From: someone Also, we do not charge you international fees, that is the payment method that you choose to use. I suggest finding one that doesn't charge you the fees.
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~Now Trout Re-Re-Re-Certified!~ From: someone I am bumping you to an 8.5 on the Official Trout Measuring Instrument of Sluttiness. You are an enigma - on the one hand a sweet, gentle, intelligent woman who we would like to wrap up in our arms and protect, and on the other, a temptress to whom we would like to do all sorts of unmentionable things.
Congratulations and shame on you! You are a bit of a slut.
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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05-02-2008 17:44
From: Raudf Fox After the last post, I'll agree.
It is your bank, Gracey.. some banks actually charge a fee for foreign transactions, which means YOUR bank is getting the money, not LL. Now, it is LL's fault in that they routed the debit through the Ireland bank, but don't expect them to refund the fees, since they didn't receive the money from those fees. I disagree. Yes, the bank charged the fee, but LL should never have had it routed around the world. It's LL's fault, and responsibility, and they certainly should reimburse for it. |
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
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05-02-2008 17:46
From: Phil Deakins I disagree. Yes, the bank charged the fee, but LL should never have had it routed around the world. It's LL's fault, and responsibility, and they certainly should reimburse for it. LL considers it your choice - and NOT their fault - if you use a payment method which charges fees, since many do not.
_____________________
~Now Trout Re-Re-Re-Certified!~ From: someone I am bumping you to an 8.5 on the Official Trout Measuring Instrument of Sluttiness. You are an enigma - on the one hand a sweet, gentle, intelligent woman who we would like to wrap up in our arms and protect, and on the other, a temptress to whom we would like to do all sorts of unmentionable things.
Congratulations and shame on you! You are a bit of a slut.
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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05-02-2008 18:05
From: Ann Launay LL considers it your choice - and NOT their fault - if you use a payment method which charges fees, since many do not. From my understanding, it wasn't her choice. It was LL that did something wrong. I'm in the UK and, if I provide UK bank details to a UK company so that they can charge me from time to time by getting money from my bank, I don't expect it to go via another country and incur a foreign currency exchange charge. If it does, it's the fault of the company, and not of mine, and the company is responsible for reimbursing the extra charge. My understanding of this situation is exactly like that. |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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05-02-2008 18:27
I retract that.
On reflection, it could be that the bank routed the money wrongly after LL requested the money from it, or LL's end requested the money via Ireland. It could be either - I think.
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Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
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05-02-2008 18:33
From: Phil Deakins I think you missed it somehow. The person is in the U.S., where I assume her bank is. LL is in the U.S., and the transaction should not have been routed through Ireland. It's LL's responsibility. i did miss that. apologies
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There's, uh, probably a lot of things you didn't know about lindens. Another, another interesting, uh, lindenism, uh, there are only three jobs available to a linden. The first is making shoes at night while, you know, while the old cobbler sleeps.You can bake cookies in a tree. But the third job, some call it, uh, "the show" or "the big dance," it's the profession that every linden aspires to.
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Gracey Lafleur
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jul 2006
Posts: 10
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05-02-2008 18:38
From: Maggie McArdle LL has no control over YOUR banks fees and charges. if your bank is in a different country, and has different banking laws, you cannot hold LL accountable for it. take it up with your bank. MY bank is not charging the fees.....I am in the US and so is my bank!!!!...and so are Linden Labs. We are all in the US so why am I being charged international fees?...Lindens already told me it's a glitch in their system cuz the payments are being routed for unknown reasons to THEIR (Linden's) bank in Ireland!!!! |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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05-02-2008 18:39
From: Rebecca Proudhon I am fully aware of how keyloggers work. That's not evident from your posts. From: someone I am not going to ass-ume that it is simply a key-logger targeting Chaos. But you are willing to ass-ume that it was an inside job, despite your awareness of keyloggers. Hmm. I'd rather not make unwarranted assumptions of any kind. |
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Gracey Lafleur
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jul 2006
Posts: 10
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05-02-2008 18:42
From: Ann Launay LL considers it your choice - and NOT their fault - if you use a payment method which charges fees, since many do not. You seem to assume/know an awful lot about my situation. It is NOT my choice when Lindens route my money to Europe and then charge me. I am in the US, the Lindens are in the US, my bank is in the US. They have already told me it's a glitch in their system that the money is being transferred to Ireland.... ANd my point, other than to vent, was to make other US people aware of this. Check your bank statements to make sue this is not happening to you too!!! I find it a hard time believing that I''m the only one affected by this. |
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Arnon Kirshner
Registered User
Join date: 2 Aug 2007
Posts: 6
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05-02-2008 18:45
From: Ann Launay LL considers it your choice - and NOT their fault - if you use a payment method which charges fees, since many do not. Ann, I've been sitting here and reading and reading. You really didn't get it yet, did you? Gracey is in the US, LL is in the US, Gracey's bank is in the US too. All in US! Linden Labs had not right to route her payment through their bank in Ireland! So it's more than obvious that it's a LL issue and not hers or her bank's. What makes it so hard to understand? |
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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05-02-2008 18:51
From: Arnon Kirshner Ann, I've been sitting here and reading and reading. You really didn't get it yet, did you? Gracey is in the US, LL is in the US, Gracey's bank is in the US too. All in US! Linden Labs had not right to route her payment through their bank in Ireland! So it's more than obvious that it's a LL issue and not hers or her bank's. What makes it so hard to understand? LL has been billing from the UK for over a year now. Why is this suddenly an issue again? |
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Arnon Kirshner
Registered User
Join date: 2 Aug 2007
Posts: 6
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05-02-2008 18:56
From: Sindy Tsure LL has been billing from the UK for over a year now. Why is this suddenly an issue again? They bill UK residents from their UK bank. Not US residents. And these fees from their UK bank, as Gracey said, started on 4/11 for her. Up to then she was paying through US bank. |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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05-02-2008 18:58
From: Arnon Kirshner Ann, I've been sitting here and reading and reading. You really didn't get it yet, did you? Gracey is in the US, LL is in the US, Gracey's bank is in the US too. All in US! Linden Labs had not right to route her payment through their bank in Ireland! So it's more than obvious that it's a LL issue and not hers or her bank's. What makes it so hard to understand? Aaron, read Ann's posts again. She *does* get it. She never made any judgement of LL's behavior. She simply told us what they told her, verbatim. Argue with LL's position if you like, but don't assume Ann is defending them. |
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Gracey Lafleur
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jul 2006
Posts: 10
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05-02-2008 19:00
From: Arnon Kirshner They bill UK residents from their UK bank. Not US residents. And these fees from their UK bank, as Gracey said, started on 4/11 for her. Up to then she was paying through US bank. Thank you, Arnon. Yes, Lindens have already told me it's a problem with their system and that my payments should be going to their bank in California...not in Ireland. Again, the point of posting this was make others aware that this might be happening to others as well. Check you bank accounts for entries that say "International fee" |
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Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
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05-02-2008 19:04
From: Why was I billed an additional US$1.50 transaction fee? Prior to December 19, 2007, our credit processor was based internationally, which resulted in a bank fee charged by some banks commonly called a "foreign transaction fee," which happens whenever funds are being moved overseas. Since it wasn't a fee generated by Linden Lab, we couldn't control or cancel it.
Credit cards entered into our system on or after December 19, 2007 are handled by a domestic credit processor, which eliminates the fee. If you're in the United States and are being charged the foreign transaction fee with your current credit card, entering a credit card that's new to our system should result in the fee no longer being charged. Please consult your financial institution for details on your personal situation. . |
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Amity Slade
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,183
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05-02-2008 19:05
(Edit: I wrote a lot, then after posting it decided it was moot, so it would be best to just remove it rather than help float an issue that doesn't need my help floating it.)
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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05-02-2008 19:13
From: Gracey Lafleur MY bank is not charging the fees.....I am in the US and so is my bank!!!!...and so are Linden Labs. We are all in the US so why am I being charged international fees?...Lindens already told me it's a glitch in their system cuz the payments are being routed for unknown reasons to THEIR (Linden's) bank in Ireland!!!! That settles it then - it's LL's fault and responsibility, and they should reimburse you. |
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Arnon Kirshner
Registered User
Join date: 2 Aug 2007
Posts: 6
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05-02-2008 19:13
From: Lear Cale Aaron, read Ann's posts again. She *does* get it. She never made any judgement of LL's behavior. She simply told us what they told her, verbatim. Argue with LL's position if you like, but don't assume Ann is defending them. Hello. It's Arnon, ty. I didn't assume Ann is defending LL. I just noticed that Ann kept saying it's Gracey's bank fault and that it happened to her last year too etc etc. I don't know Ann's case of last year, but I do know Gracey's. And on this case, "for some reason" like Lindens said, they had her billed through their bank in the UK. LL's fault and they already admitted it (a part Ann might missed in the posts as well). So, yes, they might not take the fees but right thing to do, since it's their and only their fault, is to reimburse her. |
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Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
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05-02-2008 19:13
From: Gracey Lafleur MY bank is not charging the fees.....I am in the US and so is my bank!!!!...and so are Linden Labs. We are all in the US so why am I being charged international fees? You were in SL for almost a year when they announced it on the blog: Foreign Transaction Fees ( http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/06/01/foreign-transaction-fees/). It's referenced in the KB in addition to what I quoted in the previous post. It's not like they're keeping it secret and noone knows about it. If you don't keep track of the blog, how is that LL's fault? |
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Arnon Kirshner
Registered User
Join date: 2 Aug 2007
Posts: 6
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05-02-2008 19:21
From: Kitty Barnett You were in SL for almost a year when they announced it on the blog: Foreign Transaction Fees ( http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/06/01/foreign-transaction-fees/). It's referenced in the KB in addition to what I quoted in the previous post. It's not like they're keeping it secret and noone knows about it. If you don't keep track of the blog, how is that LL's fault? I don't know if you're saying that about me. I'm not getting any additional international fees, I was talking about Gracey. But, are you telling me it's my fault, Gracey's or whoever's that hasn't been keeping track of the blog? When you register on sl and give them you bank information and stuff, do you sign any contract that you have to keep track of the blog so that you are aware if they're going to charge you international fees without notice? |
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Rebecca Proudhon
(TM)
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 1,686
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05-02-2008 19:23
From: Maggie McArdle short and to the point. if you cannot grasp the above concept, the sell your computer or stay off the interwebs. As I said, unlike you, I am not assuming it is just Chaos being keylogged blundered or is lying. Everyone's payment info is on the SL databases if those were hacked then they could be available. There have already been ample cases of company databases being hacked. I am not playing the odds as to what happened, or ass-uming anything and you are. until there is more info about this, my payment info is deleted. Short and to the point. STFU May 2nd article: |
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
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05-02-2008 19:24
From: Gracey Lafleur You seem to assume/know an awful lot about my situation. It is NOT my choice when Lindens route my money to Europe and then charge me. I am in the US, the Lindens are in the US, my bank is in the US. They have already told me it's a glitch in their system that the money is being transferred to Ireland....
ANd my point, other than to vent, was to make other US people aware of this. Check your bank statements to make sue this is not happening to you too!!! I find it a hard time believing that I''m the only one affected by this. I wasn't assuming anything, I was relating what they told me when I had this same problem last year...basically, I had to choose another payment if I wanted to avoid the fees, because they weren't taking responsibility and it was my 'choice' to continue paying for them if I didn't. It IS your bank charging the fees because, due to LL's misroute, it looks to them like you're spending the money overseas. LL only had the UK bank when I experienced the issue and I didn't know they'd reestablished one in the US, as per Kitty's post. That puts the ball back in their court.
_____________________
~Now Trout Re-Re-Re-Certified!~ From: someone I am bumping you to an 8.5 on the Official Trout Measuring Instrument of Sluttiness. You are an enigma - on the one hand a sweet, gentle, intelligent woman who we would like to wrap up in our arms and protect, and on the other, a temptress to whom we would like to do all sorts of unmentionable things.
Congratulations and shame on you! You are a bit of a slut.
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Arnon Kirshner
Registered User
Join date: 2 Aug 2007
Posts: 6
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05-02-2008 19:31
From: Ann Launay I wasn't assuming anything, I was relating what they told me when I had this same problem last year...basically, I had to choose another payment if I wanted to avoid the fees, because they weren't taking responsibility and it was my 'choice' to continue paying for them if I didn't. It IS your bank charging the fees because, due to LL's misroute, it looks to them like you're spending the money overseas. LL only had the UK bank when I experienced the issue and I didn't know they'd reestablished one in the US, as per Kitty's post. That puts the ball back in their court. Yes Ann, we agree on that. It IS her bank charging her the fees, but it wouldn't charge her these fees if LL hadn't billed her through UK. So, we're saying same things...LL fault. |
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
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05-02-2008 19:31
From: Arnon Kirshner HLL's fault and they already admitted it (a part Ann might missed in the posts as well). I didn't miss it, I just know from experience that different Support people will tell you different things and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about. We're also not hearing it directly from Support, so there's a possibility that the message got a little garbled. I was trying to HELP Gracey by telling her what I'd been told in the same situation, and I don't understand why I'm being criticized for it.
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~Now Trout Re-Re-Re-Certified!~ From: someone I am bumping you to an 8.5 on the Official Trout Measuring Instrument of Sluttiness. You are an enigma - on the one hand a sweet, gentle, intelligent woman who we would like to wrap up in our arms and protect, and on the other, a temptress to whom we would like to do all sorts of unmentionable things.
Congratulations and shame on you! You are a bit of a slut.
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Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
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05-02-2008 19:41
From: Arnon Kirshner if they're going to charge you international fees without notice? LL isn't charging you international fees, banks are. While LL may take actions that cause those fees to suddenly occur, they're not the ones making you pay them, banks are. As far as the blog goes, if you don't read the blog then yes you'll run into problems like this. If her account was newer than the blog post she would have had no way of knowing, but even then a quick search in the KB would have turned up the cause and the resolution. There's no need to turn it into some kind of secret, hidden conspiracy. |