Are bots actually allowed?

I always think Phil provides a valuable service in making a clear and personable example of how the world's economy could get so screwed up so quickly by men who see nothing wrong with pushing up against the boundries of what is right and what is wrong in the way a person can make a profit for themselves at the expense of others with complete disregard for the fact that THEY are the reason honest people have to live with so many of their freedoms limited.

I said that all in one breath

How many times do you want it spelling out for you, Sling? The answer to your question is yes. I'll try to explain in terms that a 2 year old would understand - alright? Fill a glass to the brim with water, then add a bit more so that the water is above the glass - held by the meniscus. Now add a drop more, or knock the table, or whatever, and the water will spill over. The problem is not with adding a bit more or with knocking the table. The problem is that glass is overfull of water. Get it now?

Yes.

No.

No.

You can't help being stupid, can you?

Totally wrong, and I am proof of it Your post sounds a lot like sour grapes, as do the posts of some of the others in this thread. But the best of all is that my success *really* gets up Sling's nose. Is it pure, unadulterated envy or what?

/me applaudes

No. It's pure unadulterated revulsion at selfish freeloading parasites.
There's no difference in principle between search-gamers, ad-farmers and greedy bankers/brokers chasing commissions regardless of the effects on others.

You may be only a little leech in a small environment, but your behaviour is no less despicable for that.

The continual hope of times like these when I can really get up your nose

No, one your not successful if you have to cheat by falsely increasing your traffic to get people to notice you. You SAY you makes loads of cash in here. You SAY your products are top of the line. You even SAID with some wavering that BOTs don't cause lag. My measurement in sucess is not all based on cash alone.

I created my area hoping it might be able to support itself by selling some items, but what I am hoping I do here is just to create a place where people can come and enjoy activities and a relaxing time exploring without the bother of spinning boxes, flashing ads and excessive lag. A little virtual place to relax. I have streams, horses, boats, and calming areas, as well as a place to dance.

I don't care if we are on top of the list. I don't care if I make any take home cash and making a profit. My goal is to build for others to enjoy and make enough to break even.

I am in no way envyous of you or what you have....

*claps*

The continual hope of times like these when I can really get up your nose

Aaw - poor thing

And, as long as it continues to be allowed, it's my full intention to keep on being a cause of your revulsion AND shoving it right up your nose at every opportunity

someone has a nose fixation

How can just one be so wrong in so many ways <sigh). Oh well...

My success is measured in the thousands of US$ I bank every month from my SL store

Correct. You don't want to accept it, huh? It's just toooooo much for you to swallow, huh? >>ROFLMAO<<

No I didn't. I said that they among the very best in their field in SL. You been taking Sling's selective reading course?

No I didn't. I assure you that Sling's selective reading course isn't any good for you I'll refresh your memory. I said that *well-used* traffic bots don't cause lag. I also said I can prove it.

And my measurement of success in business is how much money is made Hmmm... I think I like mine

And you need to look into it because your sim's problems are in the sim itself. Either that, or it needs a restart. But I suppose it's got to be someone else's fault - right?

Neither do I. Do you have a point to make?

And I wish you well with it. The first step is to stop blaming other people for the problems in your sim. Its glass is more than full and you won't have a lag-free sim until you either deal with it, or have it dealt with. OR... you can continue to bury your head in the sand and pretend it's someone else's fault

Good. I didn't suggest you were, but good.

um hey, no, not everyone uses bots. Some of us creators just rely on quality of our work.

I know. But only Sling's

You are a much sadder person that I already thought you were.
Even if what you say is half true, it is a tragic waste of anyone's time that their negativity and bitterness should bring them here.

Phil, I love this thread. You're always entertaining the way you debate emotion by using logic. I hope I never have to debate you, but fortunately I usually agree with what you say. You've got great products and I think anyone making as much as you do would be foolish if they didn't use bots. Like you I hope someday traffic won't be counted in search, but until then just keep doing what you're doing.

As far as anyone else knows, your "success" is all in your mind.

I CERTAINLY don't think there is anything about you for anyone to envy. Well, except for some n00b trolls to look up to you as their "idol".

I've never seen anything of yours in any part of the grid I have been to, so if you are so successful, it must be via invisible products.

Let's talk REAL Traffic and then you can compute "likely" Sales Averages in your head.

If you want to estimate someone's REAL traffic, while they are using traffic inflating bots.....and they have their land parceled out...it's pretty easy to do.

Since my land is parceled out...I can give you a pretty good idea of how this works, as I record my traffic every day from each parcel....it varies depending on promotions to a certain section of store...but on an average day...it follows a routine.

Most traffic is directed in ads to Front Entrance of Main Store. Now - most people put their traffic inflating bots here, above or below this location, in a grouping....so that the inflated traffic count is for their main entrance parcel. Some times the parcel with the bots will stretch around the other parcels, and they spread their bots out, so as not to be so obvious.

Once someone lands at main entrance....they will meander out a bit....if your property is parceled out, you can get a glimpse of how this works by comparing traffic count in the next parcels.

Type in the name of your favorite traffic inflating bot user store into the Places search....see if they happen to have their land parceled out....if so....you will see sections of their store in several different lines.

I've chosen one, that I'm looking at right now....on their main parcel, where the traffic inflating bots are....they have a count of:

34,269

As you meander out a bit....to the next parcel.....their count is:

107

Next parcel:

78

Next parcel

67

Next parcel:

57

On those parcels with the low numbers...you can assume no bots.....so you can assume that is basically their REAL Traffic.

I'll compare my own parcels with that as an example of how it works, so I picked my biggest sale per customer ratio day last week, when I had some half off promotions going on.
Main Parcel - Front Entrance = 615
Low Prim Section = 519
Main Showroom = 224
New Showroom = 221
Bedrooms = 189
Kitchens = 41

Now....once they hit the main entrance...they would most likely move to second parcel, the low prim section....but you will see a minus of about 100 count there, from main entrance....and you will see the counts lower, as they meander out through the store. This is usually pretty darn consistent.

So let's go back up to the traffic inflating bot user which I selected....and look at that traffic....their highest count is 107...so let's give benefit of doubt there, and add 100 to it...for the meandering out effect....and you can estimate that on their main entry parcel, they might have had 207.

That would be the REAL Traffic. And keep in mind that does not equal number of people....use your handy lessons you learned here, to grasp what that count means in avatars and minutes.

During my sale day with the half off promotion....I sold to about 70% of everyone that set foot in the store, which is a very high average....most stores won't have that percentage on an average day, but it was due to a promotion. I figured that up by matching recorded visitor list names with names on transaction list.

So - if you would like to figure up your favorite traffic inflating bot user's REAL Sales....you can use the above traffic formulation....kind of eyeball it....go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt....and assume they sold to 70% of everyone that set foot in the store....keep in mind what their average product price point is.....and DO THE MATH....and don't bother to get out your calculator....you can do it on your fingers and toes.

Oh heck...go ahead and track it for a week, just to be fair.

As I was counting on a few fingers....I was reminiscing about the early days, when I first started, and remembering my traffic counts each day of 50 to100 at main entrance....and remembering how sales were darn good even for that low traffic rate....I could pay 2 tier fees on 2 small lots and even have some lindens left over for ball gowns! Pretty darn exciting.

Gee Whiz...if I had not been able to progressively get those traffic figures up over the last 6 months....and was still working with 50 to 100....I might have had to start using traffic inflating bots! Holy Cow.

But wait....hold on just a sec....I'm going back over that traffic inflating bot user's numbers that I just used as an example, pretty close to my early day figures....and those darn bots aren't even helping!

Who Knew!

Just an aside here... I have seen tons of phil's product all over sl in homes, businesses and elsewhere. His items are by far the best looking 4 prim and lower furniture products that I have seen. In addition, Phil is a wonderful and giving person who has helped me tremendously with any issue i have ever asked him about, including encouraging me to start a business which provides direct competition to his own. For all of you slingin mud at him over bots, maybe it would be better to actually have an in person conversation with him rather than pontificate on forums about someone you have never actually spoken with.

As for bots...there are MANY MANY uses of them which are not solely to inflate traffic. Most of these are actually quite amazing including some pretty interesting artificial intelligence work. Even Phil's use of bots as models for his furniture is pretty innovative and savvy for those of us who try to shop for couples poses when we are alone...lol. While I do not agree with using bots to inflate traffic...I also dont vilify someone for them. Too bad it seems that most people posting here are not so open minded as to see the whole of a person or issue.

Regarding the posts above about traffic in certain parcels...i often tp into the entrance and then just camera around and do not actually walk through a store or area. So building stats based on where in a store people are is not taking camera use into consideration which I think makes the numbers and conclusions rather inaccurate. And since camera use is quite common, this would be a rather large miss. Also, my customers will drop quite large amounts of lindens buying large numbers of the same item because i sell things like curtains...so not sure the traffic count to avg sales per av would hold true for my store and prob not for alot of others.

Not exactly, Tal. There are a number of people know exactly what I make but they are people who won't tell you - bank staff, LL staff, personal friends, etc. If you actually want to get a flavour of what I'm likely to make then just hang around in the store for a while and watch the people come and go. As Marcel sometimes posts - "there are always people in Phil's store". But if you just want to make yourself feel good by deciding that I'm being dishonest about it, be my guest. It's not easy to genuinely fool yourself, but you can give it your best shot

Thank you, Bradley If you and I ever had such a debate, it wouldn't be anything like these ones, simply because you're not the sort of person who likes to sling mud just because something isn't to your liking.

I saw that you're looking to get your shop up and running again. If you need any help, give me a shout.

What about bots that are used to manipulate camping traffic? Or overrun it. Isn't it considered fraud when a person uses more then their allowed accounts (3-5?) to run bots in various camp locations?

Ie:

A location that allows for 30 overnight campers used to have tons of bots, and they'd pay 50L a max a day per camper. After their owner joined the merchant's protective league, the amount of bots found there has greatly decreased due to proper training and learning of the information needed to get rid of bots, without running a script or using another bot to get rid of them.

A business partner of mine did the math and found out that bots, on average can take about 50,000 USD out of the game a year, that's 50,000 that's not in our pockets for selling the right stuff.

personally i see camping in the same catagory as traffic bots...they both are there to inflate traffic numbers....so to me, if someone has 4 alts and goes in to camp to get money to pay tier and buy shoes...how is that any different than one av camping? I would be interested to learn how your friend has calculated that the money is taken OUT of sl and not used within sl also

I'll ask them for the specs on their calculations, but between two bot applications there's nearly 5,000 accounts online, and that's not counting all bot applications.

If 5000 bots produce 144 a day from camps then thats 2700 usd thats moving a day and can't easily be accounted for.

Seeing as 10,000 l is 34 usd, thats a new mp3 player or a pair of shoes, maybe fable 2?