Are bots actually allowed?

Ive never really known this.

Are bots officially allowed by LL ?

I know we see the odd one here and there, but at times I've by change stumbled across a few floating sky domes with rows of seating in a circle and like 20+ (I assume) bots just siting there all the time.

Persumably just to bump up the land figure.

I'm not bothered in any way myself (as never been any near me) but just curious, is this kinda thing allowed by LL as it seems to serve no purpose for our SL comminity.

I don't know of any specific rules disallowing them. So, they're technically "legit". For now...

Of course. LL uses bots itself for many automatic functions.

Yes, they are allowed and they do serve a purpose for our SL community, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Remember that the SL community consists of many people's activities.

Yes, bots are allowed.

For the newcomer: A "Bot" is an avatar account like any other...except that instead of the full SL viewer, the account is accessed with a very streamlined piece of software, allowing a single computer to run many bots simultaneously. The bot can also be programmed to do certain things on its own, without the need for a human operator.

Bots perform a number of useful services. Linden Lab uses one called "Peformance Tester" to check on sim performance. You may see him around here and there. Stores may use bots as models for clothing, or even greeters. Landbots roam the grid, attracted to low priced real estate and ready to snap up bargains. (Which is why you NEVER set your land for sale to "Anyone" at L$1!)

Bots also perform darker tasks. Crowds of silent traffic bots hide in skyboxes and in underground rooms, boosting the traffic figures for stores and clubs, and creating lag. Camping bots swoop in to grab camp chairs before a real person can sit down to earn an honest linden. Copybots hang out in stores, stealing textures from designers' latest offerings.

On the whole, I think we'd be better off without them. Linden Lab hasn't done anything about them, though, citing the "legitimate uses" argument, and the "we can't tell a bot from a person" argument. Also, bots inflate the concurrency and total residents numbers, making SL look like it's more popular than it is.

[Aside: "we can't tell a bot from a person"...er, aren't there those captcha things, you know, 'enter the text from the box below to prove you're not a bot'?]

Yep but techincally there is a limit of about 5 accountes perperson.
But in reality the floodgates are open for 5 free alts for every hotmail adress you can make, no verification required. So Mass botting is commonplace, there are individual people running hundreds of bots to cheat the sytem.
Bots are fine in limited numbers, but mass botting is just blatant cheating. They know it's cheating so they hide them like sardines in boxes in the sky above their stores.

Just wanted to say thanks for all the replies.

Only having read these forums, I detected a resonable hatred towards bots, being used to try and bump up land figures, (I guess) slowing performance down (loading on SL in general) and giving nothing worthwhile back.

Hence I did wonder if an obvious collection of bots would be removed if found.

I do wonder sometimes how many thousand bots there might be online out of the 75,000 we often see.

Lindal, thank you for a very thorough explanation about the difference uses of a bot.

On that point... where would you prompt the user to enter the captcha? When they first sign in? The bot owner could just do that when signing the bot on and then let it go on autopilot there on out. Maybe pop up a captcha on the screen every half hour? I don't think users would like that.

It's a nice thought, but I don't think it's a workable solution.

Firstly, I'm not arguing that bots aren't allowed.

Anyhow, I find it's generally a bad idea to assume something is okay to do just because the company running the show is allowed to do it. They have many abilities that we don't, and are allowed many liberties that we aren't. Lindens are capable of making any object their own, as well as grabbing textures straight off an avatar, among many other things, but if a resident finds a way to do this, they are not allowed to just because LL is.

You are mistaken on all counts.

Just curious but do you care to explain that response?

ETA: I'm thinking that there is a general dislike of the use of bots to inflate traffic figures.

Allowed? LL likes bots so much they made one their president. J/k

Sure...

There are just a very few people who post any sort of "reasonable hatred" about those bots here. The quoted statement makes it sound like it's the norm here when it isn't.

The only part of that that's correct is the "I guess" bit. There have been posts by a few people that talk about the load on the system, but they were just guesses. The consensus here is that those bots put hardly any load at all on the system, unless they are placed where people go.

They give a lot back. I'll give you just one example. I make and sell some of the very best stuff in its field. Without my bots, many people would never have found the stuff, so my bots certainly give back. Having said that, there is no reason at all why anyone or any bot should give anything back. Everyone uses SL for their own personal interests, etc. and nobody is under any obligation to give anything back; i.e. to give anything to the population/users.

Thanks for the question, and the detailed explanations about them. I too was wondering about them, Ive seen a few bots around already in my short time in Sl.

Also thanks to all who help out newbies so patiently

................Sees a future (if not already) Sl addict!

i've just found a place where someone is apparently doing this with about 20 in a high-altitude position (922 meters high-i had to use a "flight assist" item to get that high). the bots are all sitting inside a large "wooden" box (the default texture when creating a new object).

i've also seen several places where i see a bunch of dots on the minimap-in an UNDERGROUND location that should not be accessible at all! it wouldn't bee so bad, if they were crowded together in 1 spot, but in once case they were spread out in a large area, making the minimap look messy.

At JLOH (Jack Linden's Office Hour) today, he mentioned that he will be presenting a policy blog post concerning the (mis-)(ab-)use of camping bots for traffic gaming, as well as other similar bot abuses.

So, stay tuned to the blog next week!

Let me just follow that up.

When I say a general displike on this forum to bots. That is what I have to say, as from my 1st every joining these forums, thru learing how to make a wooden box thru to messing with particles and (trying) to modify scripts, having stumbled across postings (made at any time) whenever bots have been talked about I "Generally" have got a negative feeling about them for fellow posters. It's not 1 specific post, its just the general overview I have read over the many months reading many postings on many topics.
That's why I made that statement,

Re the affecting performance. I've no idea as thankfully there are not any near me, but for example, say on my sim the neighbour with a store thought he/she would like to bump up traffic figures for his area. made a skybox and threw in 30 bots sitting in a circle, and another 10 around the store washing the floor, sitting on bench's etc etc.
Would that affect the speed of my (where I live) sim in any way?

My personal feelings is that IF (and I don't know if if would) but IF it did affect the performance and enjoyment of my SL experience in any way they he/she should have them removed, as we are all paying (roughly) the same to be here and no-one should deliberatly spoil others SL experiences.

Whilst I appreciate you may say you like bots as it helps you make money is a good thing for you personally, I feel pershaps (and no offence) that perhaps other local residents enjoyment of SL is more important than 1 stores profit.

As I say, I'm not personally aware of the effect Bots (in numbers) do have on a Sim, (or the overall SL performance if they run into the many many thousands), but I stand by my statement than in general posting and chat about bots on these forums have been on the negative side generally.

My only problem with bots is the number of them one person is allowed to have without having to pay a single dime. If you want to have 20 bots so you can pretend your place is worthwhile to visit, then you should have to pay for the deception. It is only fair.

I of course feel much better with the 20 alts used as traffic bots than say the 20 alts used by the bored person who makes a game out of using each one to cause grief for others. Even if there is a bonafide legitimate reason for having so many accounts, everyone should have to pay for that excess.

LL should create a new continent to host such extreme muppetry.

There are very few people visit the forums, that doesn't mean they don't like bots being used to cheat traffic figures though, normally in real life people take a very dim view of any form cheating, however minor.



They give back to you no doubt but not to anyone else, not using them.
Adfarming gave back to the adfarmers, but most residents just got an eyesaw dumped on their doorsteps which cost a great deal to get rid of.

You use SL for your personal interest as do I, and as long as your personal interest does't affect my or any other users ability to enjoy SL then there is no problem.

When users cannot access an area they pay tier for, due to the numbers of bots sat in a sim for no reason other than boosting traffic, then there is a problem.
When sim is lagged out due to bots then there is a problem.

Free accounts have a purpose for people who like to roleplay, or build in peace, or families where wife and husband both use SL, I pay for Neptunes account but why pay for my wifes aswell, why pay to come on and build in peace?

I agree 20 accounts is getting out of hand but its not a reason for LL to bleed people any more than they already do.

Sling:
LL should create a new continent to host your extreme stupidity and confine you to it, but they won't, unfortunately.


Piggie:

I don't know of anyone in this forum who actually likes traffic bots - not even me, and I use them. But there are very few people who harbour "hatred" for their use, and those very few people have tended to be quite loud about them in the past. More recently, Sling is just about the last remaining one of them who still sometimes posts such attitudes. The great majority of people who have posted their opinions here couldn't care less either way. So there is no "general hatred" for traffic bots in this forum, and virtually none at all in SL itself.

Your hypothetical neighbour's 10 bots around the store would affect your performance because they would be in your view range. They would have almost the same effect on you as 10 customers in the store would have. The ones in the sky may or may not affect you - it depends how far up they are - whether or not they are in your range. Well-used traffic bots are so far away from you that they don't affect you at all. For instance, mine are over 4000m up and affect nobody unless they fly all the way up there, in which case, any effect is of their own doing and, even then, it's minimal.

The ToS covers the misuse of bots. E.g. they can be removed if they cause other people not to be able to access the sim (that assumes that the whole sim isn't owned by the bots' owner, who is fully entitled to allow and disallow anyone onto his/her property). And they can be removed if they badly affect people in other ways.

Your idea that, if they affect your performance in, and enjoyment of, SL in any way, they should be removed, is wrong. A single avatar coming within your range affects your performance. Going to a place where there are quite a few avatars affects it even more, and also affects your enjoyment of SL to some extent because of lag. You can choose to leave of course but, if you don't, any loss in performance or enjoyment is of your own choice. E.g. if you go to a store where there are a load of bots hanging round, and your performance is down because of them due to lag, it's none of your business. Just leave if you don't like it. What people do on their own land is not your business. If they lose customers because of it, it's entirely their own choice and has nothing to do with anyone else.

I don't like having to use bots and I'd much rather not use them at all but, that aside, if I chose to fill my store with them so that they lagged the store's visitors, it is entirely my own business and nobody else's (unless they also affect other land owners in the sim). You need to realise that the population of SL isn't generic. There are people in it for many different reasons and everyone isn't here for the same reason that you are here. On the whole, SL works well for everyone but, just as in RL, there are small bits that don't suit everyone. In RL, we stay away from places that don't suit us, and that's how it works in SL too.

You didn't read what I wrote. I gave an example of how bots *do* give back to the community as a whole. I also said that there is no need for anyone or any bot to give anything back at all - and that's absolutely true. I don't know most people, but I have no doubt that I am right in saying that hardly anyone gives back to the community. There is no need for it, and it isn't expected of anyone.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Yes i am quite familiar with those that use them for RP. Some RP so well they have a new one each week. Apparently characters with a history is a no no, if in fact the real reason wasn't because they made people angry and simply slipped off onto another account to avoid the consequences.

Allowing a certain number of accounts per houshold and charging for more than that limit is not bleeding people. I myself started SL during a time that everyone had to pay for a basic membership. A 1 time fee of 9.95. Seems reasonable that you should have to pay that per account over a certain limit. Would certainly cut down on some mis-use and would not penalize the average user.