Are bots actually allowed?

It helps the community as a whole to find your store....................


..........roight!


Does this not mean that if LL do away with Traffic as a major search weighting, that this would be a direct attack on the Community?

ZOMG! People will be posting here that they are leaving SL because they can't find your store.
And ... when they do, nobody will post to ask "Can I have your stuff?". They will know that because the poster can't find your store, the stuff the OP might give won't be worth having.

You're not reading right, Sling. I said that, because of the bots, many people found some of the very best items in the field whereas, without the bots, those people wouldn't have found them. In that way, the bots do give to the community. I can also add that they take nothing from the community.

No, Sling, it doesn't mean that if LL do away with Traffic as a major search weighting, that this would be a direct attack on the Community. The bots only help as long as people use the Places tab search. If that searche's ranking factor goes, then people will see other results. It's only while traffic is the sole ranking factor (not the major one), and people use that search, that the bots benefit the community.

Without the bots, people wouldn't have found your store, you say.
Without the bots, they would have found another store. The goods in that could be better than yours. Your evaluation of your own products may be lacking in objectivity. Therefore your bots are taking away from the community.

You say that the bots and Places search help the community to find your store before they find your competitors. You say that this is a benefit to the community.
If your argument is valid and LL do away with Places search and Traffic ranking, then logically this deliberate removal of what you say is a benefit to the community would be damaging to the community.

Regarding traffic bots and related performance issues.

Traffic bots are programmed to do nothing. Literally, they just sit there.
Well written traffic bots don't even load the world around them, and they certainly do not interact with it.

A good traffic bot will do nothing more then ping the sim with a few bits of data every minute or so so it is not disconnected.

Sling, you're not making any sense - largely because you replied to things that were never said.

I didn't say that.

The evaluation of my products is not lacking in objectivity at all. I go only by what others tell me.

I didn't say that.

You have no idea what my argument is - your replies show that.

Perhaps you should consider going back to bed, getting up and starting the day again. That way, you might have half a chance of following a discussion.

You're not making sense.

I personally notice a huge difference in my lag in Butler Sim when Hibdon to my south, who apparently shares the same server as Butler, starts running as many as 16+ bots in a big black box 4000m up in the sky. Some Sims on the main land share a server machine at LL. One such pairing is Butler, with my Shuri Castle Seiden, horse back riding and woods to visit on trails.

The horses never have troubles fallowing the trails and people can walk them fine with no worries when the Hibdon bots are gone. But once the owner loads them on (like today), we can hardly keep on the trails, walk, or just sit and fish using the 7 Seas Fishing system.

It makes a huge difference in Sim performance, even if the sims are connected by using the same server at Linden Labs. Hibdons Traffic bots even as high up as 4000m dose in fact cause the sim and a joined sims to lag badly.

I am one more of those people who hate bots, used by traffic cheaters. I know many more who haven't posted. If your product is wanted by the people, and you have word of mouth, stores, and online marketing, word will spread. The people will come. Tricking them there by artificial traffic inflation is just wrong.

My friend and I built the sim for the enjoyment of others and ourselves and with this giant black box of bots lagging the sim, no enjoyment can be had. So ad me to the (long) list of bot haters, some of which don't know yet that it is bots causing their lag issues.

We should be able to report huge groupings of bots to LL as an abuse report and have them removed.

This is my opinion, you may even have your own.

Is that the best you can do? Try sticking to testing things - you're much better at that

Just as a tiny bit of info from my point of view.. I hate bots that are only used for traffic. With a passion. If I tp into a store, and see a ton of little dots waaaaay up in the sky, or a huge amount of dots on the map location, I am going to leave. I refuse to do business with places that use bots purely to gain publicity, as I feel that if your stuff is good enough, I should hear about you anyway.

Now, if a store or business uses bots that serve a purpose, whether it be something for sending group invites, greeter bots, showing the product, then that's fine, within reason. I don't see any reason for a store to have more than 10 bots, at very most, and those bots damn well be doing something, in my opinion.

Often, they're located high enough to not notice any client side lag, but server side is occasionally noticeable, it looks bad on the map (In my opinion), and I just dislike the idea.

InuYasha. If those bots really are the cause of major lag in your sim, you should report them. It's against the ToS to have a serious effect on other users. But at 4000+m, they'd need to be doing all sorts of things to affect the sim and sims in the same server. Traffic bots don't normally do anything and have precious little effect on a sim. For instance, right now I am on the ground in the sim where my 22 bots are, and I'm moving around, building, etc. perfectly well - there is no lag - so I doubt that your report is correct.

As for your "word of mouth" thought, all I can suggest to you is, when you run a business for money, you do it that way. Other people prefer to do it differently - e.g. word of mouth PLUS search rankings and other things. And the methods used have bearing whatsoever on the quality of goods - good or bad.

It's interesting to note that your long list of bot haters includes people who don't even know what they are

The humanity! How do you live with the hypocrisy?



I hate to burst your bubble, but there are plenty of folks who have espoused their (moderate to sometimes extreme) dislike of traffic bots, not only here, but in quite a few in-world groups as well. Also, there are quite a number of them that show up at JLOH and other Linden's office hours. I know; I've been present to get more than an earfin-full.

As a result, I would say that Sling's in good company.



Each avatar adds to the simulator load. Even while sitting, collision information is checked for each and every one (avatars can never be phantom). Simulation information is sent to each and every client, so with 20 in a box, the simulator sends update packets (even if little to nothing is being updated). Don't believe me? Log in ONE av at 4000m with nothing else around. No prims, no builds, no other avs, nothing, and then check your bandwidth usage.



Soon, they will be removed for gaming the Traffic system unfairly, too. Either that, or the traffic system is going to be removed from search. Either way, people's days of cheating the system (at least with bots) are drawing to a close.



Yes, but that avatar impact is a necessity, since it represents another person doing and interacting with the world. That "performance hit" is endemic and expected. Bots don't represent other people, including you. They are automatons who exist solely to make a counter go up. I mean, in your view, the Lindens might as well add a field to your parcel asking you what you want your traffic score to be.



Then don't. It makes you a better person and more honest businessman, since it says "my stuff is good enough, I don't have to cheat to sell it".



I would argue that those who choose not to cheat by gaming the traffic statistic are harmed by your use of traffic bots. Their legitimate traffic numbers for their (possibly superior) stores and products are being obscured by false information.

You don't develop products that fail to do things they claim, do you? Why would you want to cheat in the process of selling them?



Oh, definitely. Some people are here solely to grief. Some are here solely to scam. Some are here solely to maximize their profits, damn the rules and, better yet, ethics. It doesn't mean that the rest of us should tolerate such predatory and abusive behavior. Fortunately, under tremendous pressure by many residents, the Lindens have started seeing this and have been cleaning it up. AdFarms are mostly a sad memory. Extortion is fast going the way of the dodo. Traffic gaming and other abusive bots are next on the chopping block.

I reported them. There is even a catagory in which this kind of abuse falls under. The unfair use of system resourses. I do have some kind of idea of what goes on. I have been in SL since 2005. I used to work in the computer related fields. Selling, inspection of electronic components and programming. So I have a clue as to what is going on and why dispite your inability to realist it or not, BOTS DO CAUSE SERVER LAG...
.

If you really want a reply to all the bolloocks, say so, but it's such rubbish that it doesn't seem necessary.

Your last statement is sometimes true, but we aren't discussing the bots that cause lag. We are discussing traffic bots, and they don't cause lag if they are well-used; i.e. well out of the way of anybody and doing nothing at all. If you want prrof, come to the sim (it's in my sig) and see for yourself

Perhaps somebody took a look at the bots and found that they aren't the cause of the lag - who knows.

Btw, your RL experiences are irrelevant.

Of course it seems like rubbish, to you. Even GinkoGuy claimed that he did "nothing wrong" all the way to the bitter end.

Reply or not, I really don't care one way or another. However, I am happy to dispel any more "false" information coming from you here, or anywhere else, for that matter.

For the record, I hate traffic bots.

I just don't go on and on about it at every opportunity like some might.

Going on and on about it wouldn't be an issue, if the Lindens would act expediently and effectively to solve real problems while they are still small, rather than piddle around and let things lie fallow until they have grown into huge, unmanageable monstrosities before they get around to their Keystone Kops / Chinese Fire Drill routines.

But the traffic bot cause LAG... Server side not just client. You can upgrade your end all you want. The server is still being over run by the 16+ bots hanging around sending collision info and other data back to the server. It doesn't matter how high up, or if they are out of view. They are still making lag by the pure contect with the server running sometimes 2 or more sims.

What and add to your already inflated traffic count???

AAHHHH!! Run away everybody, I smell a trap. You will all show up to see it, and he will have the biggest traffic day ever. (snicker)

I am also the type who stays away from places who use large amount of trafftic bots. I am not a hypocrite, I may some day use one as a greeter or worker.

Yeah.
Who starts all these traffic bot threads anyway?

Linden Labs and SecondLife with all the many many fakers, bots and alts is a place where you cannot trust anybody at all.

The main reason why SecondLife isnt that successful as LindenLabs want it to be. Most of the newcomers who log in to SL and arrive in the welcome area are already shocked after 2 mins.

I'd like to see a SL grid and new account systems to get rid of "bad kids" and fakers - also all kind of those bots who are just there to fake anything.

I want new business accounts that cost a minimum of 25 US Dollar to create and a monthly cost of minimum 50 US Dollar to have it run. This accounts should get extra land for free.


I am tired of bots and fakers !

Well said, I agree entirely. The hard part is still allowing other from around the world to access it. For some in other parts of the world an acceptable ID for verification it tough to come up with. But I think this is another topic.

You've *never* seen any false information coming from me, and you know it. The only sources of false information on this topic are people who haven't got a clue what they are talking about - people like you. But they want to say something so they make it up as they go along. Liars all.

Nobody denies that well-used traffic bots use server resources, but what they use is minimal, and they do not cause lag. I'll reopeat that last bit because it addresses a myth that used to be put about by a few idiots - they do not cause lag.

Did you take up my suggestion of coming to the sim and seeing for yourself?

I guess if Linden labs decides they are going to make searching a more fair and truthful search then they will be the ones who decide whether or not people like you should have the unfair advantage, or allow those whos products and services speak for themselfs to prevail. Lindens will decide if the server load can be decreased by banning the use of bot clusters.

If lindens show interest in improving system performance by removing the bot clusters to increase the enjoyment of their paying customers then we will know that the bots accually did cause enough lag and trouble to make it worth drawing attention to them by linden labs.

Cause all we are hearing is the side of people whos enjoyment is at issue, fighting against the greed of others. It will go on until Lindens make a dicision.