Gambling Returns to Second Life?

I so doubt that scenario with teh Z system was why. That was one incident of an exploit that was caught quickly with one game. High paying game sure but they seems unlikely they would bail on one error. At worst they might have broke even but I am only speculating based on numbers I am aware of. Also the fact word spread quickly and people shut down their games quickly. I talked to a couple of people that happened to. Was a bad loss of money but hardly end game. Personally I hope the open SIM thing takes off big. Leave LL in the dust and get back to what SL has lost.

They were refering to linden currencty in that and Lindens declared Linden currency has no value in TOS. And yes representatives of linden labs did declare these systems were legal and operated within TOS. The big mystery is what changed they arent saying. Assuming anything changed. People mistake loopholes as ways around laws when thats not the case. Loopholes are operating within the law just something was over looked.

Its only fraud if there was intent. I have not said they were completely defrauding people. I said they are either are guilty of fraud or gross neglect. I Am favoring the latter but as time goes on its hard to say.

I find it hard to believe that management was not consulted. IF the G-Team made that huge of a bad call completely on their own. How come Zara Linden was seen online just yesterday and not in an unemployment line??

Hey made perfect sense. IF you were educated on the issue you would have understood. F for no effort Collete

cough omg thats the funniest one yet I literally gagged on my drink hahaha. Hi Lindens would never have banned it in the first place if they had a choice. Second onlything in jepoardy would have been a new law to say ok no you can't do skill games to win fake currency. SL was never ni jeopardy for a second or would have been. If you have questions on the issue let me know. Lindens are the ones out for the big buck thats were all the greed is. Also there are lots of business in SL that make money. ooo making a tiny bit of money is bad. Hmm go talk to the prostitutes, realestate people, sex ball makers, skin makers or anything in SL.

For the 100th time, none can produce anything official saying that that system would be legal for an infinite duration or even any date, they have what may be the opinion of 1 staff member at Linden lab and I am yet to see any confirmation from that member that that descision stands still, if people are silly/blind/greedy enough chose that as the weak risky basis to invest in a cloudy industry, bad luck. And their only right here is to walk and set up on a private grid , LL own the company not them.
Bicky Beans may well be gone tommorrow too, maybe some should do what all the Casino owners did when the ban was announced originally and rat on each other to save LL looking for them.
I guess if anyones employees say their company is going to double all payouts they would would have to honour that for all eternity too?
The fact Zara is still around just proves the whining and hollow threats of legal action and reporting are being acknowledged with the seriousness they deserve.........NONE

Well it depends are we talking gambling and prostitution or groceries and plumbing?

if the credit card companies had gotten wind of this they could have denied the ability for second life users to use credit cards to pay for things like tier and buying lindens. second life was in jeopardy. rant on though.

Huh? How does this work? SL was never in jeopardy from this thing that's making LL lots of money, LL is greedy, so naturally LL bans the thing that's making them lots of money?

Look, this happens all the time in RL: people invest millions in businesses that become worthless because of regulatory changes. And when your Asbestos Baby Blankets business gets banned, yeah, sux to be you.

sapphire moon still up too !

And I guess any kiddie porn places still about make that all ok too?
You know where they are, feel free to dob them in...............

if i knew of any kiddie porn places you can bet i would 'dob them in'

Are we sure about that? I can't get there to check in person right now, but reports were that they'd removed all ways to cash-out the tokens into L$s (that is, that the "skill" games had all been removed). Maybe they're back again?

yeah its open you dont need a skill matching game to win $L anymore just play the star box machine. similar to zyngo except its blackjack and vidpoker.AND a hell of hard time to win i have lost enough to make the creater rich.

Bicky Beans is currently down even though it has legal real life precidents and upheld in courts of law. I am not going to take the time responding to all the other responses. There is another pressing issue connected with this. If you read the TOS LL has laughingly attempted to basically strip its customers of all consumer rights protected by law. I been in SL since 2004 SL lost its way from what it was. Here is TOS I didn't notice anything in TOS about it being against TOS to quote TOS but probaqbly is in there also but read for your selves. You have no rights as a customer in LL eyes from all appearances and I for one urge some basic consumer protection as guaranteed by law be written into TOS. Lastly before you read the lawyer speak the only response reguarding why they banned is the rules evolve. The rules have not been updated as one linden told me to his knowledge.

5.5 Linden Lab's liability to you is expressly limited, to the extent allowable under applicable law.

IN NO EVENT SHALL LINDEN LAB OR ANY OF ITS SHAREHOLDERS, PARTNERS, AFFILIATES, DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, SUBSIDIARIES, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, SUPPLIERS, LICENSEES OR DISTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, PUNITIVE OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY DAMAGES FOR LOST PROFITS, ARISING (WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE) OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SERVICE (INCLUDING ITS MODIFICATION OR TERMINATION), THE LINDEN SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT (INCLUDING ITS TERMINATION OR SUSPENSION) OR THIS AGREEMENT, WHETHER OR NOT LINDEN LAB MAY HAVE BEEN ADVISED THAT ANY SUCH DAMAGES MIGHT OR COULD OCCUR AND NOTWITHSTANDING THE FAILURE OF ESSENTIAL PURPOSE OF ANY REMEDY. IN ADDITION, IN NO EVENT WILL LINDEN LAB'S CUMULATIVE LIABILITY TO YOU FOR DIRECT DAMAGES OF ANY KIND OR NATURE EXCEED FIFTY DOLLARS (U.S. $50.00). Some jurisdictions do not allow the foregoing limitations of liability, so to the extent that any such limitation is impermissible, such limitation may not apply to you. You agree that Linden Lab cannot be held responsible or liable for anything that occurs or results from accessing or subscribing to the Service.


As far as I can see. The vision of your world your vision is dead

Additionally Linden Labs has established the right to take currency from you at any time.

"Linden Lab has the absolute right to manage, regulate, control, MODIFY and/or ELIMINATE such Currency as it sees fit in its sole discretion"

Meaning linden currency which is purchased with various real world currencies and which clearly is redeemable for real world money. is can be removed ie stolen at any time by Linden Labs for any reason or no reason. This is just part of the insanity that game makers, players or anyone has to contend with and the TOS needs a major overhaul to recognize the various consumer protection laws. I am not sure how the TOS has stood this long but wouldnt hold up for a second in court against real life laws.

Here is the whole of that part of the TOS so you know its not out of context

1.4 Second Life "currency" is a limited license right available for purchase or free distribution at Linden Lab's discretion, and is not redeemable for monetary value from Linden Lab.

You acknowledge that the Service presently includes a component of in-world fictional currency ("Currency" or "Linden Dollars" or "L$", which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of our product when, as, and if allowed by Linden Lab. Linden Lab may charge fees for the right to use Linden Dollars, or may distribute Linden Dollars without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Linden Dollars represent a limited license right governed solely under the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Linden Lab at any time. You agree that Linden Lab has the absolute right to manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate such Currency as it sees fit in its sole discretion, in any general or specific case, and that Linden Lab will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such right.

Your a sick individual comparing someone playing a game to someone distributing visual matierial of an adult having intercourse with a child. If you even have to consider comparing the two I highly highly suggest professional help in the form of years of therapy. That is just a disgusting comparison and you need to shut it.

The skill games are down there and have been since the lindens declared the ultimatium. What the heck does rules evolve mean there are no rules why havent they posted these rules that evolved? And they requested the match games to be removed from what I was told. In harry lindens words that allow you to "exchange" game credits for linden currency

And again the anti game people keep avoiding the the fact that Linden labs clearly approved them, no rules changed and profitted probably 100s of thousands of real US dollars in the process. Funny how people just quote one tiny bit avoid the important parts and pull everything out of context but its the way of forums

There is no zyngo type game at sapphire that I see I am here as I type this. the game you are refering to is a skill based competitive card game. The skill matching games are off to the side for freeplay no lindens one you play to win game credits. Also the blackjack you can't win lindens from that either. Zyngo or rather Slingo I should say is a game combining elements of bingo and slots with some minor skill in the placing of jokers and choices of when to complete lines etc.

If you can't handle the heat stop throwing matches around and piss off out of the kitchen kid.
Good to see you finally given up on the bullshit about games being approved. now all you need is to clean yourself up out of the basment and find a real job before you consider yourself an authority on other peoples mental states.

From a G-Team meeting transcript posted by one of the Z$ developers on another site, in which Zara seems to approve the trivial "skill" payout schemes, it does appear that at least one Linden publicly declared it to be "entirely legal." (Of course, chat logs could be doctored, etc., and it's extraordinarily out-of-character for a Linden employee to say such a thing, but I'm inclined to believe the log is legit, only because it would be so incredibly damning to post a fabricated log.)See, this is the part I don't follow: How can we conclude that LL acted out of malice in banning something from which they were making lots of profit? From the motive of pure greed, they were sacrificing their own self-interest. I think it's manifestly evident that they simply had no choice in the matter--as with the previous gambling ban: either they enforce it, or they lose the ability to get funds from US credit card companies, which for LL is very definitely "Game Over."

Anyway, yeah, it was a Very Bad Call for any LL employee to approve these payout schemes. Exactly how they came to make that rather obvious mistake is the real mystery here.

How many posts do you have? over 3000? get a life? look in the mirror. Sorry just compariing something as simple as a game to child abuse is disgusting

Its about being them publicly and clearly giving the ok. From there people invested time and money into land, whole sims, money for lindens. Later they now say no after they made some money. What changed? TOS hasn't changed. People are just out thousands of dollars because company representatives gave the go ahead. I just now heard one individual who purchase a whole sim for the new games requested that that sim be refunded. Linden Labs response was We didnt tell you to buy it. I was going to give them a benefit of a doubt and just call it gross incompetance but now I have no choice but to call this fraud. Any company that has any integrity that screws up so obviously and blatantly would say yes we made a bad call heres your money back. Not basically saying screw you we got your money we dont care if you bought it because we gave a go ahead. This is what I have been talking about. They have to be reported to every consumer agency out there and the FBI for internet fraud if they have no intent to make good. I seriously hope some lindens go to jail in this. it really looks like fraud anymore. If it wasn't they would do the right thing. Also the sweepstakes approach has a clear and trackable legal precident in RL. It has been tested a number of times in a court.

Your right it would be very unwise to post something like that G meeting chat log on that site when it would be so very easy to confirm so I am positive its legit.

It does seem out of character for Zara to say that in public like that. I talk to her once or twice she always follows up with she isnt giving legal advce etc. Assuming that log is accurate I would have to say she was stating that with some kind of backing. Just speculating at this point but I think its clear she must have confired with someone and got some reinforcement. Also this is after the notation on her profile about not approving games which gives my specuation a bit more strength. The reason for that notation is there were claims false or true of lindens approving a game and going back on that claim or the game maker just lying about its approval. That's why that is there in her profile. I am 99% certain I know the specific circomstances surrounding that.

I just hope Linden Labs opts to do the right thing before the legal bleep hits their fan.

Oh by the way its not BS about games being approved. There is now documented facts on the other website go look. If you want to confirm IM those people within the chat. You only call it BS because you just can't handle the facts and want to make up your own reality

LOL! Can't handle reality? I'm not the one who takes a statement by one employee, as a public declariation that something is legal for eternity, still waiting to see that Blog declaration of legality on the games concerned with a date they are legal till, didn't think anyone could produce one...............

you use your credits S$won playing blackjack on the star box machine to get $L, no skill required. you r right about it not being zyngo,,my bad. i'm with u 100% sorina,LL just wanted to profit from the games and they did from people buying land,etc. Happy to see i'm not the only one that knows how corrupt they are. also if i were you i would just ignore this tedd dude not worth getting this thread closed .