Face Light

How would you know if it was actually lighting her rather than just being drowned out by surrounding lights?

The point there is that if a facelight is subtle enough to the point where you wouldn't notice if it is actually on or not (the person wearing it can't judge that) then you can't say "this or that person has a good facelight, I can't see it's there" because it might not actually be providing any light which would certainly make it unnoticeable.

Ann, would you mind passing that axe over when you're finished with it?

Yes, I am aware there are early adopters, pragmatists, and laggards.

Ohhh which do I choose?

I'd like to be an early adopter, but that doesn't sound pragmatic, but if I wait I may be a laggard....

I thought the debate (what there was of one) was done

pro facelight users will not stop using them, regardless if it effects someone else's enjoyment of SL (they will tell you to turn off local lights or go away if it bothers you that much, yet in the same breath they tell you they are doing it so you can see them better ) that just confuses the heck out of me

and
antifacelight users will not stop trying to educate people on the bad things about facelights and try to assist them with others way that can make someone's SL enjoyable

on that note, I say we should all just step back, and agree to disagree

and when someone offers a suggestion do not bash it down, accept it for what it is, another suggestion

good bye forum folks, have fun debating the undebatable

Even when it is offered with pious judgementalism.

If you don't like any of them, there is a fourth choice called innovator.

Ann your Dark Eden Girl is showing

Yeah, that is so not me

like i said, ive seen this discussion a dozen times this year alone, and it always follows the same pattern. there really isnt much more i can offer but to suggest the anti-noselamp crowd dry their tears and disable local lights. i will not be bullied into taking mine off.
i never claimed to be humble.
if the anti-noselampers arent complaining that noselamps light up the sim like landing lights, then they are claiming that i cause their 6 light water-feature to flicker. if they arent complaining about that, they are complaining that i am selfishly using one of the lights and they are entitled to them ALL. an all out ban on noselamps is a huge part of the agenda from where i stand.
the noselamp i am wearing is not unnoticeable. it is subtle, but it would be obvious to you if i were to turn it off.
my noselamp is a permanent part of my av, just like my wings or my ao. i will not be removing it every time i venture out into public. i will certainly not remove it every time the night cycles through. nor will i remove it on night sims. afterall, i am a vampyre and as you noticed the noselamp is optimised for nighttime use.
i do make exceptions for events that rely on local lights for whatever, but i do not for day to day movement around the grid.
and that is that.

Thank you very much for the name calling.

You know what...this thread is making me not want any part of this at all.

If there was such a crowd they'd be wearing 6 linked prims each set to a black light with intensity 1.0 and radius 20m which would effectively kill nearly most other lights for anyone around them.

Instead everyone who disagrees simply puts up with the detrimental effect facelights have on their avie or their surroundings and voices their objections in threads like this one.

Did you listen to Mitch Kapor's keynote at SL5B?

http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/07/07/sl5b-mitch-kapors-keynote-mp3-now-up-video-coming-soon/

These are terms describing the consumer evolution of a disruptive innovative technology.

the detrimental effect is urban legend.
my noselamp has no detrimental effect on you or anybody else.
if you cant factor noselamps into your waterfeature build that is your own shortcoming, not mine.

I did in fact, but you were using them in direct reference to my quote in a detrimental manner. Cute.

/mute

Once again:

While it's not usually that extreme, it's hardly a one-time occurance or something you have to go out of your way to run into.

Walk up to people that know you well without your facelight and see if they'll even notice there's something different about you. If they don't, it's just needlessly taking up a light for something noone but you even notices and something you could achieve just by changing your own settings. If they do, then by all means keep wearing it.

My guess would be that not a single person is going to notice whether it's there or not unless you're lighting up the entire room when you arrive somewhere.

There is no doubt, by the debate going on here, that Windlight and face lights attempt to solve the same problem (avatar rendering issues) in very different ways. Some people prefer one over the other. And that's fine, for now.

I place my bets on Windlight as ultimately disrupting the status quo, which seems to be non-WL clients and face lights. Everyone else is entitled to thier own opinions on that. Time will tell.

Kitty (hi), what I find most weird is that people themselves don't see this effect. I don't think too many people are using the old viewer now (before Windlight) so why don't they see it?

so basically its a lose/lose for me then.
if my lamp is subtle, take it off cos it doesnt make a difference.
if my lamp isnt subtle, take it off because it is too dramatic.

is it any wonder i just ignore everyones 'advise'?

Yes most people wouldn't even be able to tell if you are wearing a facelight if its subtle enough. And to me this is the whole point, as with any form of art subtle accents contribute to the overall picture that we are trying to paint. I think facelights can allow a level of control that just isn't possible by changing the viewer settings, and in particular with results that can be seen by other people. There is no question that facelights can be an enhancement and provide a more consistent look. I think that its a lot like wearing makeup in real life. And I remember someone saying earlier in this thread that its not like we can go around with invisible illuminated facelights in real life, but I know if they were available we most certainly would. (especially if real life lighting was as bad as in SL)

They might have local lights turned off, they might not have atmospheric shaders turned on, they might be on a different time of day, they might have different WindLight settings, etc. Any of those things can make one light look fine to one person and awful to another.

The shadow draft viewer changes the effect of lights even more than the step from pre-WL to WindLight due to the different lighting model and the fact that you'll get all lights so the problem will really only get worse if that viewer ever makes First Look since you'll have some who are stuck pre-WL, some will be stuck at WindLight and some will have per-pixel, full lights and all three will see lights very different from the other.

(Edited to add that simply have directional lights rather than being stuck with point lights would really solve most of everything since the affected area would simply be the cone from the light to the face and no more than that. And it would help quite a bit with keeping lights from seeping through walls)

the thing is there is no guarantee that others see you the way you want them to

(I keep feeling as though that is the point that ppl keep missing, which is why I keep stating it)

a facelight in no way no how guarantees that other people will see you the same way you see you or even close

what would you do if suddenly everyone turned off local lighting... or if they added an option where we could choose to see attached lights (and that option would be off by default)

would you still wear the facelight?

and why do you suppose women wear makeup in RL, to impress others? nahhh, they do it cuz it makes them feel good about themselves... a woman would put on makeup even when going to a blind person's convention...

(I know that because I know women like that) I myself do not wear makeup in RL
In RL much like SL I do not care how others see me (unless of course RL calls for it such as work and that)

*shrug*

To each their own, all I know is I offered another way to change the lighting, people will either like it, or hate it, use it or not, no skin off my nose either way

It is the mere CHANCE that you will see it the same way, Rha.

yeah.. I guess

(Just noticed I typoed in there, should have been though... not those...)

I guess they win though, if it were a contest that is...
being we can not force anyone to remove a facelight, we are the ones left with having to change our view of SL...
(which by the way, I am totally happy with my view LOL)

just saying...

not sure why profacelighters are getting upset, not like we can do anything about them wearing them
(other than the obvious for the really really strong anti facelighters... ban from their land, which would be extreme in my opinion)

The logic seems to be processing but doesn't hit home just yet. If it makes a difference to you, and only you, you have the means to ensure that you are pleased with the way you look all the time, without affecting anyone else.

Honestly, the only reason I get THAT close up with the cam to anyone is if they have a skin that is seemingly unique.

And here's the kicker... kicking up the ambient light in your own viewer also makes everyone ELSE look better too. It's a prettier world all the way around!

Now, there is this one thing - your desire to be slightly blue, as a vampire. There is no guarantee that you will be seen this way by others, thanks to either turning off local lights or your facelight being nullified by other light sources, including other people wanting to horn in on those 6 local lights.

If you want to be somewhat blue, and it matters that you be blue to other people 100% of the time, it should be part of your skin, not a light. Or make your wings glow blue. If it doesn't matter that you be blue to people 100% of the time.... you can be blue to yourself 100% of the time, without competing with anyone else for the light.