Inclusive Communities and Representations of Violence against Women

Scylla,

I don't know if you read the rest of this forum, but we just went through an entire thread about this:

/327/04/320728/1.html

The OP was wondering what LL's stance is on violence against women; while his question was probably answered somewhere in that mess, there were arguments both for and against rape RP. It's a long and rambling thread and you'll probably find the responses to your own questions there.



Oryx

To hell with the coke.

Until the "hate" is manifest in an act of violence against another, what else would you do? Thought crimes? No thanks.

With Popcorn? Silly Damien.

Texas. (^_^)y

Yeah. There's a sorry lack of gay poseballs in SL. I did find one good HUD set, though

To women, Tremaine. To those who find themselves confronted with imagery that demeans, and humiliates, and implicitly threatens them AS women. And to the RL victims of abuse (of whom there are MANY), who may not understand why what so traumatized THEM is "fun fun fun" for someone else to play at.

Carl, I hate to do this to you, but I agree 100%. I hope your reputation can handle that.

Jesus! First he gets suspended, now this.

Not trying to minimize the topic, but it seems odd that we've had 2 threads in this vein in the span of a week.

You make some terrific points, Amity. In large measure I agree with you. For example, for all its faults, I much prefer the community-policing model (through ARs) to a top-down method. And I DO want to see communities empowered to make their own choices.

I guess that I differ from you on what we might define as "community." I agree that all of those small regions, sims, and parcels, constitute individual communities, and they too should have the right to make rules for themselves. But they are also part of a larger community: SL itself. I suppose one might think of it as a federation. And I still don't think that ANYONE should have to experience representations of violence and hate directed against themselves anywhere here. Again, do we allow certain towns or cities to be racist or sexist in RL? I hope not.

Fair enough. So, enacting violence against female avatars is misogyny, not a simulation of misogyny, right?

Brenda, I have absolutely NO objections whatsoever to you experiencing whatever fantasies you wish in SL, with this proviso: my objection is to when you do so in public, in a way that implicitly (even if unintentionally) makes a statement about attitudes towards violence against women.

Believe me, I am not in favour of legislating thought, fantasy, or fetish.

Jesus got suspended?

Outside of the random griefer kiddies, NO ONE HAS to see things in sl that they would find objectionable. It is the person's choice to go to those places.

There are a lot of books (some considered classics), movies, short sotries, tv shows, radio sketches, plays, ... well a whole lot of things that have depiced rape, hate and various other things (some in graphic levels that upset the most jaded souls out there)

But you are trying to take out personal responsibility and lash out agaisnt that with upsets you.

Freedom of expression does not mean free to express things that I agree with...

It means to express even the things I dislike or loathe.

I loathe a lot of things, but I am not going to push that onto those who like it and prevent them from enjoying something that I have the choice of walking away from.

I live in one of the states that has a high amount of racism... I listen to every color out there badmouth the others. I shrug and go about my buisness, it's the right of them to speak like that, and it's my choice to ignore it. now if they act to cause real harm (not hurt feelings) then it's my choice to respond as I see best.

You are probably referring to the various Gor sims. I think Gor is creepy. Not my thing. But the people who are role-playing--pretending. And those people want to be there. If you want to get upset about non-pretend cultures that oppress REAL women, I suggest starting in Saudi Arabia.



Sure--take it personally. I would (I have in the past). But that doesn't mean that you get to have stuff that upsets you banned. There are plenty of games that depict torture, mutilation, and murder of men. No one's calling for them to be banned.



I think the "no swastika" rule is stupid. It continues to impute power to what historically were a bunch of losers. The real life Nazis got the crap kicked out of them. They are gone. The only remaining "nazis" around are random groups of inbred idiots looking for someone else to blame for the mess they have made of their lives. As a culture, we should not be recoiling in horror from modern day "nazis". We should be pointing our collective fingers and laughing at them.

And to top it off, SL allows the insignias of many other genocidal regimes.



You can't.

Allow?ALLOW? Who the hell are you or anyone else to think you can ALLOW certain opinions or actions? Where do you draw the line? At my home? At my church? Do you implement quotas on who I go to the movies with? Who I invite to dinner? Tell me Scylla, do we all need to start wearing helmets to monitor our brain waves? Do you ALLOW thoughts you don't agree with?

Am I supporting lynching? NO. Am I supporting rape, NO. But I do support and will defend to the death my right of free association which also includes the right to not associate if I so choose. I will support and defend to the death my right to say exactly what I think when I want to say it.

There are still Nazi swastikas in Second Life.

There are almost no places in the US where it is OKAY to be a racist. However, it is LEGAL (nearly) everywhere to be a racist. What is not legal is discrimination based on racist attitudes.

Carl, if you were to call me a "whore," that would be a kind of expression of free speech. I can respond to that: I can tell you why I am not.

But if you say "You're a whore, and I want to beat the crap out of you," you are not stating an opinion to which I can respond, you are making a threat that is intended to silence me. That is what a rape sim does.

Do you REALLY believe that free speech is ABSOLUTE? That anyone should be able to post ANYTHING? No worries about libel, for instance? You can yell "fire" in a crowded theatre? Free speech is also about responsibility, just like owning a gun. You can use it, IF you use it intelligently and responsibly, and without causing grievous harm to someone else.

I guess Scylla's ignoring me.

Most likely, yes. Or a stronger term, though nothing comes handily to mind. I'm pretty much down on simulated violence no matter whether the target's female, black, gay, or just convenient.

Are you saying women lack the ability to teleport in SL? Or lack the wisdom to avoid areas with themes they might find distasteful? Or lack the mental capacity to make choices? Do they just skip along, chewing gum with a vacant expression on their face, all innocent and easily led?

Thing about SL is: You can probably find it - if you seek it.