Inclusive Communities and Representations of Violence against Women

I haven't been in world today, do the two share a common group, that they are brave enough to show in their profiles?

This points to to whole disingenuousness on LL's part over Ursula. The way they would lead you to believe, people are being visually assaulted by the vileist of images at every turn, and are too horrified to move away. Granted, there are instances of things being where they shouldn't, but that speaks as much to LL's ineptness in enforcing their existing standards as to anything else.

And I agreewith Beebo on the yakking fetuses....blech!

Actually we do. They're called books and films. It's ok in "rated" films to be racist, sexist, etc, because you choose to pick up the book or the film and watch it. Are you telling me you've never seen a film depiction of rape? Obviously, there has to be a warning of some kind, both to stop minors watching it and also for an adult who doesn't want to watch it. But it's allowed is my point.

To draw an analogy....

In most RP sims it's standard practice to have a welcome/telehub area where the sim is explained, usually in the form of a welcome/rules notecard. Consider that the equivalent of the big sticker on the front of a DVD. If you choose to continue regardless, it's your issue if you see something which you don't like, not the sim's unless it is breaking SL's ToS or Community Standards.

I'm glad to see it wasn't just me being paranoid.

I haven't seen this much self serving censorship bs since ... well since the last time such an organization tried to get books banned at the public library as being racist or promoting smutt...

Same plan too... as one speaker got shot down, another member of the group started a new protest/petition to get it done.

It did not end well for them...

It will not end well now for them in world.

They basically just threw chum into the water for griefers, and will use the attacks to show why they are right >.<

They share more than one:

Amnesty International-E
Minerva Guests
Project Teach-In
Shakespheare's Sister
SL Left Unity

While most of those groups are pro-feminist my guess is Project Teach-In is the group involved, they're the only one set to private membership. (Again, I could be wrong about this but I'm not buying 2 threads in a few days as mere happenstance. Not when the first one made it clear they were pushing an agenda and sending notecards to people inworld to organize this whole "anti-stuff we don't like" campaign.)

*Waits for it..........

The only ones missing are ACORN and MoveOn.Org

Well I admit this could just be me being paranoid but according to its charter Project Teach-In is a subgroup of SL Left Unity devoted to "sharing plans concerning SLLU Feminist Network campaign and teaching project." If these threads aren't part of a concerted campaign...I'll eat my hat. (Ok, I'll buy a hat and then eat it.)

ETA: Or it might not be a specific group listed in a profile, however this was posted in the former thread: "OP is involved in a campaign to get LL to ban sexually violent RP (at least against women) altogether. I know this because of a notecard I received thru the feminists group advertising said campaign." So I'm not completely crazy to think these threads are related.

They're gonna need a bigger boat.

As always: Attack the messenger, not the message.

I guess my answer to this question is -- Who established that WE want to "make our community work in such a way that NO one feels censored, repressed, or unwelcome? "

I'm a Unitarian Universalist, and the covenants of our religion embrace the goal of a truly pluralistic society. As UU's many congregations have expressly adopted the goal of forming truly welcoming communities. However, I don't expect others who are not members of my denomination to embrace our goals. I've chosen an affinity group whose values closely mirror my own. You are free to worship as you choose, or select your own affinity group, whose goals and values may be wildly different than mine. I probably won't go to your RL Skinhead meeting, or feel comfortable visiting your RL kinky fetish club, but I support your right of association, even the associations I find uncomfortable.

I'm unaware that when signing up for SL, I signed up to create a community in which no feels censored, repressed, or unwelcome. Please point me to the section in the TOS which requires me to make you feel welcome on my land. I might personally admire your goal of creating an anti-oppressive community. I encourage you to purchase land, band with others who share your passion, and dedicate your resources to modelling such a community. Treasure and others have done so with Virtual Abilities, for just one example. But, please, recognize that it takes all sorts... Even the sorts you find repugnant.

The message has been addressed by several people.

/me applauds!

It's just the OP's turn to try and save us from ourselves - think of it as Missionary d'jour syndrome

Off-topic.... but a friend of mine is a member of the Teacher's union in LA. Last week, the union scheduled protests over proposed budget cuts. My friend was injured when the police came to silence the protest, because they were not "in the designated free speech zone."

Whatever your feelings about politics and unions, doesn't it just burn you that you can be subject to arrest on a public street because you're not "in the designated free speech zone?"

Somehow, I was under the impression that our entire country was a designated free speech zone!

So many people have tried to save me this week I feel like Lois Lane.

That just means that everyone likes you.

Free Speech Zones were extensively used in the 60's and 70's, especially on college campuses, and have been used routinely since the late 80's, not without controversy. In spirit, they mean to dictate not what you can say, but where you can say it. Proponents say it helps protect demonstrators of opposing views from each other, protects elected officials from potential assaults as well as keeping the area clear for people to pass through unmolested. Opponents say they are used to silence opposition by keeping them away from media and elected officials/visiting dignitaries. I guess it depends on your point of view, like most things both sides probably have merit in their opinion.

It seems that the discussion has ended for the day? I was trying to get to the meat of the issue. Will come back and look tomorrow...

More evidence that this is a concerted effort. On 05/16/2009 this was posted as a notice in the Feminists group:

The attached notecard was as follows:
The Current activisim draft notecard is as follows:
Please note that the group's contact is Ledoof Constantineau who is also the same person that started the first thread on this topic. Also note that the group in question, "SL Left Unity Feminist Network" doesn't appear in group search and doesn't appear in her profile. So I'm retracting what I earlier said about Project Teach-In being the source of this, I should have dug deeper and found all this first. My sincere apologies.

Guess which side of the controversy I'm on!

Not possible; this is a naive and over-idealistic question. There is no community where these feelings don't occur. Pluralistic societies do not exist in order to ensure no one's feelings get hurt. I'm really surprised the OP picked this as the "most important" question. It makes the rest of the post sorta crumble into meaningless rhetoric because I don't trust the OP's viewpoint or perception when framed by these impossibly idealistic questions.

"By publically expressing our views we risk being seen as prudish or as advocating censorship and in so doing endangering the ethos of Second Life. We are not any of these."

And then they go on to explain what they want to censor. I'd LOL if this wasn't so typical.

I think that a better description for SL would be a country, or perhaps a society. Societies are composed of many communities, some of which get along, and some don't. The government (in this case a mostly benevolent dictatorship) with input from its citizens, sets the laws for what is acceptable and what is not. Most governments have a vision or a set of guiding principles by which they operate. In SL, one of those principles is that no one should be discriminated against based on race, gender, or sexual orientation.

There are a lot of ways that can be interpreted, which is the source of our debate here. Is it discrimination to outlaw advertising of rape roleplay? Or is it discrimination to allow it?

My opinion, and I know this will be controversial, is that sexism is rampant in SL. SL has a reputation as being full of sex, and so it seems that many people join for that reason. I have an Orientation sim and whenever I go there, the newbies hit on me. I often feel that because I am a woman, men think they can hit on me and that I exist for their enjoyment. People who are more established in SL know how to look at profiles and so I don't get propositioned by them as much, but I see so many other examples of people wanting to shove sexism and violence against women in others' faces. If I am shopping for an AO I don't want to have to watch a man dragging around 2 nude women on chains and debasing them in sexist terms in public chat. True story, and they were CLEARLY doing it to show off and make the regular women in the store feel uncomfortable.

I personally feel that "rape" should not be an allowed keyword, except as it relates to groups for survivors and awareness campaigns. However, the places that use the word should be allowed to exist, IF they use other wording and make it clear in the parcel description that it is FANTASY and OOC consent is always required. I wouldn't allow them on my land, but others could choose to do so.

BTW, my bigger concern in all this is not the women with the rape fantasies, but the men who do the raping. They are the ones who are potentially dangerous, who might escalate to RL. They might BE convicted rapists for all we know. I don't think SL screens out sex offenders.

I think the solution to this is 2 part. One, Linden Lab needs to step up TOS enforcement as it relates to sexual harassment, and publicize their policy. There should be a sign in every welcome area stating that sexual harassment is prohibited. Violence against women needs to always be stated as fantasy/roleplay and only allowed on Adult zoned land with extra disclaimers in place.

Second, there is a social solution. Don't like violence against women? Don't allow it or people who engage in it on your land or in your life. I am doing my part...I own 30 sims, including one Adult zoned. I don't allow any non-consensual activities on my sims - no glorification of rape or human trafficking. What people do in their bedrooms is none of my business, but if they advertise it, they won't be staying on Solace Beach Estates. If every landlord did the same they'd be stuck with Mainland, and many would ultimately shut down. This kind of strategy really does work. For example, there are still many racists in the US, but we elected a black man. Why and how? We've made being a racist unacceptable. It's not ok to make racist statements in polite company. It's not ok to teach our children to hate. Racism is a mark of shame. So too should be violence against women.

First of all, Second Life is a business first and foremost. Some people have formed a sense of community within it, but it is a business. And it makes its OWN rules.



No, you're not 'expected' to do a thing. You have to SEARCH for it, and soon, June actually, you won't even be able to do that, unless you pass through all of Linden Lab's new hoops. After searching, and finding, you will have to click to teleport to it. You are not expected to do so. With your outlook on it, I'm sure you and those inhabiting such sims would be happier if you did NOT do so.



You see it that way, others don't.



What does the word "irony" mean to you?



Thank heavens for that, it would do a severe disservice to survivors of rape and sexual assault if you were. That said, yes I know you are not. You're just saying no one can express themselves in this way in Second Life because YOU don't like it.



What does the word "irony" mean to you?



Then stay out of them. And by the way, Second Life sims are not 'public' as such. Remember that handy teleport device? Don't click where you don't want to go. Ursula cleanup isn't enough for you? Sheesh.

I hate the way some of you are coming to the forums, and broadcasting your views as if no one's ever heard them before. I'm guessing college kids, but who knows.