Inclusive Communities and Representations of Violence against Women

I can agree with you on this. I do believe on a time and place for everything. Sometimes the in" your face of SL" is garatuitous and unnecessary. But blame for that falls on LL for not enforcing their existing land rating, content and community standards

SL is voluntary contribution and participation. We go there because we want to. If it offends you - please leave. There are lovely not-seamy, pink cotton candy places all over the web-

You believe you are speaking for he 'victims' - but the victims are only in your mind. If you want to understand these concepts, talk directly to the participants; find out if anyone feels victimized. It will utterly amaze you how your mind can change if you let a little light in.

I take your point, but I don't see how it really impacts upon mine. I am quite happy to acknowledge that women and men have such fantasies. I am not trying to prevent them from having them, nor am I sure I am even against these being acted out in SL. Again, it's about it being done in PUBLIC, in such a way as says to other women "We rape women here. You are not welcome." Consent isn't the issue: it's the message that is the problem. Remove it from sight, and no message is being sent. That, I think, I am (conditionally) ok with.

If you know an area is crime ridden, it's your choice to enter it and risk being a victim.

I feel sympathy towards those that suffer violence, hell I've smashed an ex-buddies jaw with my boot when I caught him ignoring the lady saying no and about as much damage to the other two guys. And I sure as hell told her she was a moron when it was all and done for going behind the bar with 3 drunk and horny guys.

In sl nobody makes a person hop on a poseball.

Here is a clue, the imagry is always going to be there in the world. It's part of our fairy tales, the bedtime storys we tell our kids... the disney movies we show them.

There is a resposnability for every thing a person does.

They don't ask for it, but they also have to try and avoid it. The world (digital and physical) is not some padded saftey pen. There are sharp corners and dark pits, nobody is going to be able to make them poof... there will always be monsters in the world because the knights in shiney armor are simply monsters that have chosen to prey on even worse ones.

I am often offended in SL. I am offended and horrified every time someone posts to the forums 'Hey where can I find a noose?' And gets a whole slew of fast responses where they can get one. It's offensive and hurtful to me, as a RL black person. So, should these places that sell or provide nooses in SL stop doing so because I am bothered by it? Why? I need to not go there, or involve myself in any way, shape or form. This isn't rl. So to ask, would we in rl allow a city to ban blacks or jews? Probably not, nowadays. But SL doesn't have those types of laws/rules. In rl, if I am walking in a place where I am afraid, then what can I do? I can leave, hope I get away safely. In SL, if I am afraid, I can go away. I can tp out, log off, go home, turn the computer off and go read a book. There is no reason for me to be in a place that has me afraid, viscerally, in SL. What I'm saying is that those people who are depicting that violent imagery against women (some of them may be women too, who knows) have the same rights as I do to 'your world your imagination.' Their imagination is different from mine. That's to be expected, because they are not me.

It can't be ok for me, and not be ok for you too. I can't equate RL with SL. It's just not the same. In RL it's not 'my world my imagination 'at all.

Then again.. there are those wandering noobs just walking into people's homes...
(please hide the dungeon key, I am sure the OP would be horrified at Hera's horrible home life)

Apparently isn't not just free speech, but also thought on this person's agenda:



So apparently it's wrong because of what the participants are thinking.

I am not Carl, but I am going to respond.
I do see a difference between "....and I want to ...." and "... I am going to....." . But the best thing is to let a jury decide.

I do REALLY believe that free speech should be ABSOLUTE. Libel, is it stated as fact or opinion? "You are a whore." vs "I think you are a whore" or " I consider you a whore" And of course the truth should always be a defense. Yelling fire in a crowded theater. Was anyone hurt? If yes, then charge the person who yelled with assault. Did the theater lose money? If yes, that should be a civil action against the person. The ticket holders lose use of their tickets? Another civil action. But there would have to be actual damage, not just hurt feelings.

Awwww! Oryx, I didn't mean to ignore you!

With respect, I did follow the other thread, but didn't contribute to it because I think it asked something rather different from what I wanted to know. THIS thread is a response to the other, in the sense that I wanted to take a different perspective on the subject. I really AM interested in resolving what I see as a problem, through consensus. I want SL to be a place where we have diverse welcoming communities, and I honestly do want to know how we resolve the obstacles that appear to me to stand in the way.

(This said, I largely agreed with what the other poster had to say in her thread)

Racism is a term that has been so wildly abused and over used it has lost so much of it's resonance. Institutional racism is easy to define, but is telling a "Polack joke" racist? Or is it merely bad taste? Was Archie Bunker a prejudiced loudmouth or was he a racist? Is choosing to live or associate with those like you racism or freedom of association? We dream of the neat and orderly social utopia, but it isn't so easy where humans are concerned.

LOL. I should think that you would take that as a warning, Skell . . .

It's no problem. My reputation has handled being good friends with quite a few widely disliked people in SL...

/me laughs long and loud.

"Thought crimes"? I do wish we could get past the stock responses to this debate, and have a real discussion.

As I noted in my original post, and elsewhere in this thread, I couldn't care LESS what you "think." What concerns me is when you express it in such a way that it DOES have a real impact on the rights and freedoms of others.

You're not bolting me down raw, thank you. I'm not into girls.

I'm beginning to think those conditions are pretty steep. How do you propose to "remove it from sight?" You can't guarantee anything in regards to privacy in SL. The only way to remove it from sight is to remove it. Period.

we have posted, we do not concern us with what you think. Only in how you express those thoughs in a manner that has an impact on the rights and freedoms of others

Brenda, see my response to Oryx below. I'm not sure why it should seem "odd" that you've had 2 threads on this subject in a week. Is there a quota? Do other topics get their threads rationed out?

You will see MORE threads on this topic for a while, because the issues raised by Ursula are so important. I think it's as simple as that.

He hasn't been accused of being one of your alts yet..just wait.

Absolutely, 100% agree with this statement. Wonderful posting Treasure

It's an honor. (^_^)y

Thank you for the Jeffersonian platitudes, Chris. They are noted.

It's just the dynamic of his forum. There is a pattern somewhat to how the topics come up, but I'll grant that Ursula can be the catylyst. Ursula should be part of your solution, no? It is meant to be a place to put activities "out of sight", isn't it?

Off-topic: Why is a noose necessarily associated with black people? The Old West RP sims use them all the time ("Horse-stealin's a hangin' crime" I understand your visceral reaction, Treasure, esp re: the KKK, but I don't think a whole lot of people RP that sort of stuff. Nooses can be for Hallowe'en, Old West, haunted houses, etc.

This is what bugs me about these conversations - what is play to one person is hate crime to another, for two completely different reasons.

When you tell me I can't express my thoughts, you are telling me how I can or cannot think. Words do not cause physical harm, physical harm is all the law should punish. You don't have the right to not be offended. As for having a discussion, what is there to discuss? You want to limit those you disagree with. Something I find more repulsive than any "censored" word.