Is Paying for Links in Profile Picks Cheating?

Ah, but this isn't the same as having innovative ideas. The Search engine is something we're forced to use, and every secret it holds is already in it, buried in its source code. This is more like a situation that would arise if SL was designed so that only textures made in Photoshop could be uploaded, and so everyone who knows Photoshop keeps their knowledge quiet.



Irrelevant as SL can be neither communist nor capitalist - it is too different from the real world at the underlying level.

This isn't social services you know, where one can expect hand-outs!

How about some of you, actually put in the days or weeks testing or optimising Search system to find this Holy Grail. I certainly spent over a month testing the system back in the early part of the year...now i'm not sure what i found are the same things Phil found. We have never discussed the nitty grit parts of optimisation. What i have discovered works for me, so I'm happy with that.

In this thread and the Bots thread, I'm sitting on the same side of the fence as Phil....yet i still don't expect him to pass that knowledge or advantages onto me.

What you wrote earlier:


These threads become a functional product placement? That remains to be seen. After all, I am being called an unethical person, which does not advertise for much
But, and I said that in an earlier posting, of course I have my store in my signature. Since this thread is about paying picks, something I do, it is not that strange that I mention my business, is it? After all, that is the one being attacked. So in a way you are right, I am interjecting my business into these threads, because it is the example of what we are talking about.

What you wrote though is:



So like I said: how can you be surprised that I was not suspended over it? If the thread is about a practice that is carried out at my store, it is not so strange that I bring it up. Without a name and location of course, that would be advertising.

People seriously need to stop conflating search manipulation with marketing. It isn't. Manipulating search isn't an application of superior skill and knowledge resulting in a better ranking. It's quite the opposite of that - it's an attempt to circumvent the metrics SL decided to use in order to displace people who would otherwise rank higher. It's a defacto admission of an inability or unwillingness to compete on a level playing field.



reductio ad absurdum - really that's about the most ridiculous thing uttered in this thread so far, and that's saying something!

In that sense, it's no different to a web search engine, and on the web there is a thriving search engine optimisation industry (I was in it). Having a website optimised for search is very costly, and can be as high as $100,000. But I've never once heard any website owner even suggest that SEOs (the optimisers) should share all their optimising knowledge because what they know is already buried in the search engines' source code. They accept that SEOs have a speciality that they don't have, and they are willing to pay to avail themselves of that speciality.

Perhaps that's what we need in SL - an seo industry, so that everyone can have their parcel's optimised for search, using all the knowledge available, but without actually getting to know the details of what it is.

Marcel I have explained it all more than clearly.

If you do not agree, fine - that is your prerogative.

I still beleive what I said. Which is mine.

Now that is something new.
Because we agree with each other we are a clique? Then I would add for example Ciaran to it as well. People on the same side of the fence are not automatically a clique. As a matter of fact, I doubt there are cliques on this forum anyway.

No comparison. Photoshop is an external programme.....you buy it and you learn it. There are manuals that accompany it that teaches you all aspects. There is a SL wiki
that tells you how to apply those textures to SL related items. No Holy Grail there!

Many of my SL creator friends are self taught with PS. In terms of learning..what you put in ...you'll get out. Yes, i know there are SL classes too if you want to learn that way.
...yet people expect hand outs. There are marketing consultants in SL offering their services for a fee, to help with Search optimisation....its a business in itself. You want help....seek them out.!

QFT

Manipulating a search engine isn't marketing, no matter how it is spun.

Apparently you are not as clear as you want to be, in general I have no problem understanding what someone posts. But as soon as you are talked into a corner, the other person did not understand you. Well, either you are smarter then anyone else in these forums, or you really have a problem with admitting mistakes.

That is why I used quotes on "Clique".

I do not think you 3 are a clique. But if there *IS* a clique setting an agenda on these threads, then you 3 would be it...

Not some mythical long standing SL forum clique.

It's the latter, Marcel. I have never once seen Colette admit to even a mistake, let alone admit to being wrong about something. It's just not in her makeup to admit to a flaw. Recently she claimed that sometimes things are misinterpreted, but she still hasn't admitted to even that, and she did have a couple of glaring opportunites at the time. It would be easier to get blood out of a stone than to get Colette to admit to even an error.

No, you're absurd.
You do nothing to optimise your search and yet you expect to be listed as high as those companies that have spent an age discovering it from themselves. You live in Lalaland!

For the record i worked at the same company at the same time as the current CEO of LL at Organic Inc. (based in SF). One of the services we provided our clients on an on-going basis is "Search Engines & Keywords Optimisation"......that means making sure that our clients were seen very high on various keywords on various search engines. Its a science in itself and has it's own industry providers.
Now SL has an off-the-shelf Google application thats also based on IBL's and rankings....hence the reason why there are a number of marketing consultants within SL offering search optimisations advice at a fee to SL businesses.

Ahh I see

This is damned if I do, damned if I don't deal.

If I try to explain at length = Rene accuses me of nefarious behavior

But you don't understand it and ask me to explain more -- but I say its not necessary I am accused of Nefarious behavior.

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You two are pieces of work...

Its not just possible that I have my own opinions about something.

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So Ill try again .. simply

Marcel -

Do you bring up your business in these conversations?

If so - Do you see how that is interjecting it into the conversation?

If so - Do you see how that could work as defacto advertising among those who agree with you?

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Heck Bella even gave a testimonial to the fact of how it works in Phil's case in the previous trafficbot thread..

Well thats for science fiction films at the moment!
The here and now, we're using a Google style search engine that's not capable of ranking by quality....the same as the main Google search engine or any others.

If you want to go off at a tangent, why not open a separate thread about it?

How would you see it? You have me on ignore.

This whole post of yours is meaningless.

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To those who aren't ignoring me ------------->

Opinions by the way are not "mistakes" no matter how you may disagree with them.

It's not uncommon in the website deisgn business. I was never in that but I did get to hear about such things as someone having a site created for the business, and submitted to the engines when it was was done. Soon afterwrads the customer wants to know why his site isn't on page #1 in Google for his type of business. He thinks he has a right to be there because he is in that business and he has a website that is indexed by Google. It's not uncommon. In one case that I know the customer took the deisgner to court over it, and I was asked for my expert opinion on it. The customer lost the case.

Is it not that exact same sense of entitlement that motivates you to falsify your traffic?

Again with the reductio ad absurdum (if you don't know what it means, look it up). Of course I optimize for search. I simply don't employ any fraudulent methods to do so. Precisely what you claim about your own business.

I have really only one thing to say to the naysayers of this current All Search engine.

You have a CEO Mark Kingdon who was the ex-CEO of Organic Inc for a number of years.
He more than anyone else on this forum could probably explain to all of you "Search Engines & Keyword Optimisation" and what lies behind it and what it supposed to deliver to businesses or the searcher. It would not surprise me if behind the scenes and before his appointment that he recommended this appliance. Maybe the next time he holds a in-world Q&A session, you should try attending it and fire away questions about it.

He'll tell you (Chip in particular), that you don't have any god given right to appear at the top of any keyword listings without knowing how to optimise as its a skill in itself. This is a reason why Phil is so good at it, as he might have worked in this field in RL....so obviously he has a definite advantage over others.....but he won't be the only one in SL. I know of at least 2 marketing consultants in world providing these services.

Rene, please explain to me what traffic bots and paying for picks has to do with keyword optimization. Of course everyone should make sure their parcel titles and descriptions are appropriate for appearing in relevant searches. No one would argue otherwise, and no one has, so you're simply putting up a straw man.

You're as outdated as you're business!

And back to the ad hominem. You're a real peach, Rene.

No, not at all. I manipulate my traffic because of my desire to rank highly - not because I think I have a right to it.

I object. I am still well-known in the world of seo, even though I haven't done it for a couple of years