ok. The end is nigh

I pretty much agree with CBY's opening pints in this thread I stopped reading when the Old Voice debate came up again. It may not be a death knell for SL, but it is further proof that LL plans to take SL in a distinctively different direction than the one it has been on, and that is their right, of course.

Using SL to augment your RL is fine if that is what you want it to do, I don't, but the fact that others do doesn't bother me, just as people using Voice don't bother me either. Though it probably has affected some subgroups negatively, I haven't experienced it personally. I generally stick with like minded people who want the same things from SL I do, so I have very few conflicts.

It's no secret that I am no fan of LL's business management skills, incompetent describes my feelings, but if this is where they plan on going, I see them implementing it the same ham fisted and amateurish way they have implemented just about everything else since I joined.

Once again, they appear to be catering to a customer base who isn't here yet, and may never come, and in the process alienating and casting aside the customers who started and stayed with them, even as those customers have been continually doubletalked and backhanded on a routine basis.

If people are harassing you and not respecting your choice not to turn on voice, then why would you want to hang out with them?

This is probably going to put the cat amongst the pigeons but here goes.

I'm definitely not an "immersionist" (is this really what we're calling it these days?), but I don't like voice because on the whole most people are more articulate and put more thought and feeling into communication when they text.

I've tried voice a couple of times and there's only so many times I can listen to "mmmmmm..mmmmm.. huhu... yeah..haha"

As in RL, there are a lot of people in SL who really can't live with silence. So every second has to be filled with.. well filler.

Then you've got the eaters and the drinkers.

I'm never a great believer in stereotypes, but the unkind stereotype of the overweight SL'er who keeps a fridge and a catering pack of doughnuts by their chair is often pretty much reinforced by the slurping and munching I've heard coming across the airwaves.

Finally, I really don't want to hear the detailed background hum of other people's domestic life. The screaming kids, the surly spouse wanting to know where the keys are, the flushing of a very distant toilet.

Personally, I'd rather wait on someone to form a thoughtful sentence and then type it.

Well, I think they are "wrong" because I don't think that this is what SL is designed for, or what it excels at doing. Blurring edges is fine in some contexts. On Facebook, for instance. But again, this is called "Second Life" -- not "First Life with Toons."

I'm really of several minds on this issue. On the one hand, I don't hold it against individuals that they DO use SL as an extension of RL. (Some of my best friends are Augmentationists . . . ). At least, I don't mind so long as they don't expect me or others to abide by their standards for RL disclosure (which a few I know do). But when I say that they are "wrong," I mean simply that they are incorrect in my view, not that they are the devil's spawn.

On the other hand, I hate that LL looks to be maybe moving in this direction, because I think it will change the nature of the application itself, and not just my interactions with a few individuals. But maybe I'm wrong about that. I certainly hope so.

And yet, thirdly (disclosure: Yes, I have three hands in RL ), while I don't take personal offense to people who do "blur edges," I also recognize that the more people there are who DO this, the more anxious LL will be to cater to THEIR wishes, thus accelerating the whole "Facebookization" of SL.

In the final analysis, however, I aim my ire at LL, and not at individuals. How you, or Smify, or anyone else choose to approach SL is entirely your choice.

I'm not sure when you met your husband....but the dating game has changed significantly in the last 10 years. 95% of the single people that I know are using the Internet as a tool. Doesn't mean they discount the old fashioned ways. These are not "basement dweller" type people. They have money to spend....and they spend it on fun and entertainment.

I can't figure out where some of you think this would upset your apple carts. Some times I think that some of you don't want anyone new to come in at all, and just keep your status quo all neat and tidy....as long as it fits what you want.

I don't remember when I joined that there was an Immersionist Requirement Policy. I missed that.

Actually, there may very well be a customer base clamoring for this sort of thing, waiting on the wings for it to happen. They reside on the Teen Grid. To me, this whole idea sounds like we're about to take one step closer to merging grids.

I think that SL is many different things to many different types of people. I guess I should go back and read over the web site promos....because I'm getting from parts of this thread that it is designed for one specific reason, and that is to pretend that you don't have a first life. I don't play that way. I don't consider the people that I communicate with on a personal level as "Toons." Not one bit.



I don't see anyone in this thread who is discussing a new opportunity (and for me, it is purely economical/business)....trying to suggest that your experience is "wrong" and that it should be changed. I do see quite the contrary....more than a wee bit of distaste/frustration/whatever for those who play a bit differently than pure fantasy. And that's a bit alarming.

...and the belching. Yes, I've heard even that. And I've also heard the flushing of an occasional toilet - and they weren't distant!

There's nothing wrong with wanting to maintain the status quo to a degree. There's also nothing wrong with a little change, either, as long as the change is in keeping with the general theme of things. Just because some of us don't like *this* change doesn't mean we're opposed to ALL change.

It would be a bit like if you had your favorite Mexican restaurant. Every so often, you go in there, and find they've made a few small changes - maybe updated the menu or refreshed the decor, or maybe some of the wait staff has changed. Not a big deal. But one day you go there and find they've changed it to a Kids' Pizza Emporium. Should you keep going back there when you're in the mood for Mexican food just because you're open-minded to change? Or would you find someplace else to go?

I can't really apply that analogy to SL. I've always considered SL a Las Vegas Buffet. Something for everyone.

Of course it is many things to many people. And for that reason, I don't get militant about this with the individuals I know who DO approach it differently. But as for the notion that SL was designed for, and is particularly suited to, a more "immersionist" approach, I don't think there needed to be a "promo" or initial sign-off to that effect. It's built into the app. There is a reason why you can't employ an RL name for your avatar, whereas Facebook actively hunts down and deletes pseudonymous accounts. There is similarly a reason that RL disclosure of other people's details is such a no-no in SL, whereas (again), Facebook almost encourages that through its newsfeeds. There ARE also a few mechanisms built into the system that DO allow you to disclose RL stuff about yourself, but, really, the only important one is the First Life tab on your profile.


I think you misunderstand me here. By "Toons" I don't mean that they are one-dimensional (which is I think how you understood me?). I mean simply that SL is more than merely a version of Facebook with engaging and entertaining avatars, animations, and so forth.


But I didn't say that I think they needed to change the way they experience SL. I hope I was clear that my attitude to the way individuals approach SL is very much live-and-let-live. My concern is not really with the individuals who choose to blur RL with SL, but rather with the possibility that LL's proposed changes will reorient the application itself.

One further point that I need to make here. I am not "really" an immersionist, in the normal sense, myself. I am pretty open about a/s/l information -- in fact, I think I've published all of those details here on this forum, at at least one point or another. There's plenty else about my RL that I am not at all chary about disclosing. And my social activism WITHIN SL should suggest that I actually DO see SL as an extension of RL: I wouldn't give two hoots about things like representations of violence against women here if I didn't think that both reflected, and impacted upon, RL.

In other words, it would be a little rich of me to look down my nose at others who, in many ways, approach SL much as I in fact do. What I DON'T like is that changes such as the proposed dating service endanger the diversity of approaches that now exist in SL, but tilting the balance too much in favour of the Facebook approach.

I'll just add that I can forsee the time when this is a glorified dating service and, as such, it will be one more step removed from the original vision of what I hoped this webworld would become. Instead of the "holodeck" approach of writing your own novel or living your own adventure, the dating game will be a sunny Stepford Wives approach to the web. I will still come here (albeit a little less often) just to meet my friend(s) and maybe chat a while. But I wont become involved in this way to meet people. SL is all about anonymity - at least only telling what you want to say.

I dont like the F.B. approach and never reply to anyone in real who tries to friend me. My real friend has over 300 people who have attached themselves like limpets to her page. It's just not me.

SL is losing it these days. ARing. lag. PG/Adult and whatyouwill. Voice was a totally Grand Mistake. Making a complex world with much to offer into an idiot's paradise. Now the truly illiterate can jump on board and burp their way through our world. SL is looking for credibility while touting the incredible.

That's why I keep a fridge and a pack of doughnuts by my desk.

Pep (It can be a very long wait.)

Please dont do that. It's so crass.

The stuff from Kilaras Armament Company is quite useful in such cases, You can claim self defense...

This.

You're a Motie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mote_in_God%27s_Eye)?

Depends on what Linden Lab does.

If they just expand the RL tab and add search to it for people who check "allow people to search the First Life tab", that's fine.

But given what an utter cock-up they've made of IM, and particularly their bizarre screwed up "SLim" product, do you think they won't cock this up?

There's already people who have spoken positively of Facebook's rule that you have to use your real name, over on the Other Place. I can EASILY see Linden Lab sterting a crack down on alts and pissing off the role-players, and *poof* there goes another group I used to hang out with, scurrying off to OpenSim.

Designed for the world’s laziest man, the Roto Rooter Pimped Out John includes a 20-inch flat-panel LCD TV, an Xbox 360, DVD player, a laptop, a TiVo DVR, and an iPod docking station (mounted conveniently on a toilet-paper dispenser.) And while you’re “doin’ your business,” you can even work out on the exercise bike or reload with a beer from the included kegerator.

I want that! Is there a cheaper version without the exercise bike? Seems a bit superfluous to me.

Communities were also forged when voice was introduced, and other communities were completely uneffected by the introduction of voice at all.

The shattered communities were destroyed by their members not voice. Their members chose to not compromise or respect each others choice, so the destruction is equally responsible due to the No-Voice Lobby as the All-Use-Voice Brigade, they together ruined those communities for the other residents who were willing to respect each other's views.

Removing Voice will shatter communities and drive away many educational institutions. I don't use voice often, but oppose any action to take my freedom of choice away. I've attended numorous great lectures on many subjects conducted in voice and it works great.

If friends don't give you a choice, they might be cool, but they're not your friends. Avoiding the divide is as simple as teleporting to another sim. People demanding I communicate on voice can get muted as far as I care, there's usually 20,000 more interesting people online.

People who ask nicely, I may turn my mic on, but it's usally not necessary and most people are quite happy for me to listen to them on voice while I answer them in text.

A distinction without meaning.

You talk about respect, but you're not prepared to grant us the respect of actually reading what we're writing.

I did not ask that voice be removed.

I merely asked that the impact of voice be acknowledged. It had an effect. If you can't recognize that effect, if you're still looking for scapegoats, you're in denial.

If you can't see how as badly managed an introduction of new features for "social networking" could be just as divisive, you're missing an important point.

The thinking implied by Andren Linden's survey questions scares the snot out of me.
Like a few of you, I think this *could* be done well. But since this is LL we are talking about, it won't be. Here is what I think it will be like:

At signup: Input your RL gender, marital status, age, occupation, address, sexual orientation, and interests. Anything you leave blank will result in an error message, and you won't get an account until you fill in all the boxes.

Profiles: The "First Life" tab will no longer be a free form text box where you can put whatever you want. It will be a series of boxes showing all that stuff you said when you set up your account. There will be a way to hide it, but a) there will be a bug that reveals it at random intervals without warning, and b) when it IS hidden, you will automatically be branded by everyone you meet as having some nasty secret to hide.

Social Networking Tools: You'll get daily spam from LL. "We've Found Some New Friends for You!", along with a list of avatars with (supposedly) something in common with you. Your Friends List will be visible to everyone. Having the Most Friends will become a way to "win" SL. You will probably be required to join a "Community" of people, defined either by geographical proximity or age or marital status or some other common factor.

There will be links, in the avatar pie menu and/or the profile, to take people to your FaceBook or MySpace page.

The "Busy" function will remain useless for its intended purpose of keeping people from bothering you when you aren't in the mood.

In short order, SL will wind up in the news and in court, when a RL date arranged in SL goes terribly wrong and someone is killed. Additional security measures will be put in place, which will not work.

The future of SL fills me with joyous anticipation. Why, it's going to be about as much fun as removing my appendix with a fingernail file and a bottle of vodka.

I think I saw that episode of McGuyver.

This.



If you take out the word 'my,' this too. There are SO many topics to discuss other than personal ones!

Do the "they must be hiding something" no-boundary types think the rest of us deny RL even exists, or what? No. Only when in a roleplay zone. Although I would still rather discuss things that happen in SL, and any number of positive topics, such as creating things, than RL politics and problems which I hear plenty about outside SL.

Why come into a virtual world and act just like it's still RL.