ok. The end is nigh

I hope you are simply unaware of the kind of emotional issues you're blithely dismissing in this sentence.

Same for you.

Whereas some communities were enriched by it.



What I'm saying is that voice extends choice and if most people in a community choose to use voice, that's the way the community develops. The users of a community make this choice, not you, not I, not Linden Lab, it's a communitiy issue.



I'm suggesting that women may be under more pressure to validate themselves than men, but that's not really a voice issue, it's an issue of gender.

No Ciaran, I am not. Emphatically.

Again, it is not VOICE that damages communities, it is the culture that has developed around it. I have no objections whatsoever to communicating with someone who is using voice; in fact, my main issue here all along has been that THEY too frequently aren't interested in communicating with ME.

I fully understand the advantages of voice to people with MS and other afflictions. Voice is an entirely legitimate form of communication, even where that is NOT the case. But for it to work properly and not as a means of exclusion, those using voice have to be willing to engage (in voice! I am not suggesting that they need to type) with those who are not.

I am quite capable of, and willing to listen to someone talking to me in voice, if they are willing to read what I type. We don't need to be using the same medium of communication to communicate.

I'm not sure how to put this more clearly.

How so?

I have sat through innumerable voice conferences where an hour went by and we covered maybe three of ten points, and then took care of the other seven points in Jabber in a quarter of an hour after the call. And we each get an accurate log.

For many-many conversations, text is MUCH more effective than voice. You don't have to stop and wait for the person to stop speaking, you can all type at once, look back in the log. And you don't have to stop the conversation because someone has a problem with their headset.

I *have* used voice in SL. It's got all the problems of voice conferences, plus screaming kids and barking dogs. For one-on-one, perhaps it's different, but in groups it's at best a mixed blessing.

I prefer text. I am not just unwilling to communicate in voice, I find that it makes SL sufficiently unpleasant that it's not worth playing.

Fixed it for ya!

Pep (We all know that ferrets can't voice, anyway.)

Sure. I'm just not clear on how what I said here:


is "blithely dismissing" emotional issues?

Do you avoid communicating AT ALL (i.e., even through text) with people using voice?

Possibly I misunderstood.

But you've confused my tiny predator brain again. How can I communicate with people using voice through text? If they're communicating with me through text, they're not "people using voice", they're "people using text".

See, I can communicate with people using text through text, but unless I turn voice on I can't even hear the ones using it. And I don't turn voice on.

Ah, ok. Well, if you don't enable voice at all, then, yes, you are going to be completely unable to communicate with those using voice. Arguably, I suppose, Ciaran could respond by suggesting that you are excluding THEM as much as they are excluding you.

Unless the lag becomes an issue, I usually enable voice where voice is being used, so I can hear. But I respond in text. So, they talk, I listen and type. Hopefully they read, and respond back (usually) in voice. Sometimes that works, but mostly in one-on-ones. Mostly it doesn't . . . the text just get lost.

Overall, I agree with you about voice: I dislike it, and VASTLY prefer to both give and receive text. But for me, personally, that's a side issue: I am willing (usually) to listen to voice, so long as there is a give-and-take in the conversation.

Which is my point. Such a response completely denies the emotional cost of violating immersion by enabling voice in SL.

Sure, point taken. And, to an extent, I agree; as I've said, I dislike voice because it blurs the RL/SL divide WAY too much. So, yeah, it does represent an attack on immersion.

On the other hand, I acknowledge that there are others (like Smif) who don't use SL that way. I think they are wrong, and (to return us back full-circle to the OP) I think they are endangering the things that make SL distinctive, different, and exciting, but I guess I'm too wishy-washy to really fight back hard against that. At least, one-on-one.

I don't think they're wrong, I just wish they'd quit denying the reality of the changes voice has made. It's not *just* a choice, and for many people it's not *even* a choice.

Ok, agreed.

(Are you listening, Smify?)

Maybe is a respect thing? I must be really insulated. I am deaf, people who know me know that and wouldn't dream of voicing. If they want me to be included, they text, simple as that. If they don't care, I leave, also simple. However, I use bilateral cochlear implants to hear. If I 'must' voice, I can, and will. It's just not my first choice, and is very difficult for me. My sim has a resident who types with his feet, he has no arms. It's very difficult for him. For him, I voice. He knows I am deaf, and will repeat, rephrase, or do what ever I need to understand, and we manage. We both respect one another's needs, nothing hard about that. To me, his needs are bigger than mine.

Scylla is one of the sexiest communicators in forums. She doesnt need voice - she'd blow the circuits if she used it.

LOL

Awwww . . . TY . . .

(I think)

Some people are better communicators speaking, some people are better communicators writing. I think it's great that people have their choice of medium in which to communicate, because that's what SL is all about, isn't it?

I think there is an assumption that without voice, everyone would just happily choose to use text. I think that, instead, a lot of people who don't use text that well would simply just drop out of SL because they find it's not to their liking. Some other people might stay, but have trouble socializing because their ability to write in text isn't so good.

In a world with only writing in text, it's the good writers who are the popular kids. With voice introduced, some of the good speakers are now competing for that popularity.

And I am someone who doesn't use voice at all (meaning not speaking or listening to it.) I am just not bothered by the fact that there are people out there who will choose not to socialize with me because I don't use voice. I have no problem finding people with whom to socialize.

The introduction of voice is distinguished from the introduction of dating services in two ways, though.

One is that, as long as SL is to be a platform that businesses and universities use for work and research, voice functionality is vital because, in many cases, it's just a more effective way of communicating (particularly in a lecture-type setting.) On the other hand, the dating services actually interfere with business (dating information on profiles sets up a nice sexual harassment nightmare for any business or university).

Second, I don't think voice really breaks the concept of the virtual reality. Virtual reality isn't silent; anyone who wants to change their voices like appearance can get one of those voice changing programs. However, anything that is encouraging people to use SL merely to coordinate First Life is definitely breaking that virtual reality veil.

I know some people want to use SL as a way of setting up RL meetings, and even though I don't, it doesn't bother me that anyone else does, knock yourself out. I'm not bother that tools would be introduced to help that. The thing that bothers me is that there are so many other issues that are critical to SL that don't receive attention, that this dating service thing should be nowhere near the top of the priority list. SL should get its core mission right before branching out into extras.

All I got to say to this is *headdesk*

Well, sure, the ones I'm talking about were all already using text before voice came along. So that's an assumption you can take to the bank.

Oh tsk tsk.

I don't really think you are the vanguard of the barbarian hordes. Alaric the Goth and Attila were not nearly so . . . Italian.



PS. If the head is hitting the desk with any force, be careful to guard against anything that might damage your pretty voice. SL would be the loser for it.

Wrong about what??? Wanting to enhance every angle of your life and blur every edge possible....instead of keeping every little section in tidy little compartments?

Oh, yes... How are those relationships working for you now?

Whatever happened to the notion of going out and MEETING people? You know - BEFORE shopping for your "perfect date" in some catalog? Because all this crazy idea of turning SL into a 3-D eHarmony is, is filing us all into some big virtual catalog so some basement-dwelling kid with no social skills can shop around and go, "I'll pick her... and her... and her... and her..."

And what of those of us who are happily married in RL and NOT looking for a relationship in SL (or, at most, just a strictly roleplay relationship)? Are we now going to be perpetually harassed for not being part of the "registry"?

HEY NOW!!!

I pick my women carefully!!!

I would be okay with this, if we weren't harassed for the choice we make with regards to using voice; or accused of misrepresenting ourselves, or of being something we're not, and being coerced to "prove" ourselves...

On a more technical side: I usually have my voice disabled completely because having it on - even to just listen - lags my client due to SLVoice's high CPU usage. Yet I often run across people who don't respect this decision I've made, and insist that I turn on voice if I want to hang out with them.

Oh, yes... Voice is clearly all about choice. Blech!