Critic Sought

I have to agree in this case. Not particularly about the "lurk before posting" thing, but about the level of effort that seems to be expected of the resident answerers here.

Because I offered to help. I actually like making "house calls" to see if I can figure out folks' problems, on site. But you can't just go to this site: the location isn't posted in this thread. My in-world schedule is out-of-phase with the OPs, so my IM for a landmark went to "User is not online...". Fine. But the reply isn't a landmark, but rather another (offline) IM that the club isn't open yet, so I have to be escorted. Well, with my schedule, that's never gonna happen.

Okay, no big loss. I wasted some time in IM-tag, and the OP doesn't get my critique, for whatever use it may have been. But really, if one asks for help... I dunno. I mean, it's not like we're making Big Linden Bucks from chasing around SL looking for other people's problems to solve.

Every post is an ad of sorts. The poster wants something, and is trying to attract people to their post to give them what they want. The title is the single most important part. When viewing the front page all there is is a list of titles vying with each other for your attention. This one said "Critic Sought". Now anyone who's taken the time to learn about the community here knows we have plenty of critics and they will be more than happy to oblige. Originally I didn't even open it cuz I knew it was gonna be a sh!tstorm. Since it kept popping up to the top of the list, eventually there was nothing else that interested me at the time, so I opened it. Reading the original post was even worse. It doesn't take long observing people here to learn that "club" is also a hot button. The first response was highly predictable. If it hadn't been 2K there's at least half a dozen others who would have done the same thing. The thread derailed at the title, not post #2.

['me presses 'Quote' button... edits post for brevity down to the most outrageous of the statements, stares at the resulting paragraphs for ten minutes trying to think how on EARTH to reply to them in any way that will make any impression.... gives up and types, knowing its probably a waste of time.. but....]

Does the above apply to you also then Phil? suppose i add something to that last paragraph....

Quote, (brackets mine)
Like all the users here, you (Phil) are nothing, you (Phil) have no importance, you (Phil) don't matter, you (Phil) are not needed. If you (Phil) think that you have anything at all to do with this forum, think again.
End Quote.

If that is true, why are you posting? I dont think its true... this is not a flame. i am just asking if it works all the way for you? And if i add my name in place of yours, why are you reading this? If I am nothing and have no importance and am not needed, then why does this forum invite my input, or yours?

I am genuinely asking ..

imogen

qflulz

It absolutely applies to me. I said that in a later post. I was writing about how wrong the idea is that the forum regulars somehow dictate how things are done in the forum, and the suggestion that people should lurk a while to get a feel of things, before posting a question - as though the forum regulars ran the place.

No individual (or group of people) in this forum has intrinsic value to the forum. Yes there are experts here in various fields, and yes there are experienced people here in various fields (making them experts), but none would be missed if they left, simply because there are others in their fields as well - and many more yet to arrive. By that I mean that the forum wouldn't be any the lesser without them.

The point was being made that people should get a feel for how things work here, as set by the regulars, before posting a question. I think that is incredibly arrogant and shows a great sense of self-importance. That's what the part you quoted was about.

Don't sell yourself short!

You'd be missed!!

We all lubs ya! Your like that short-tempered Drunk Uncle who cant keep his language clean around the kids.

You're missing out on a lot of other aspects a forum such as this can facilitate. I see "I miss Mac" on a nearly daily basis lately, and have to agree. I was gone myself for a short month and received an unexpected and very touching PM (routed to my email) asking if I was alright. That was not because of what technical knowledge I may or may not offer. It's because two people connected. Happens every day. If someone leaves, you may not miss them. Do not presume to know about anyone else's reaction. It would seem you also extrapolate that should you leave no one would miss you, I don't think that's true. If you could bring yourself to see that the images displayed on your screen are people, people with value, those people might treat you the same. But unless you do that, you will continue to live in a very cold world.

Thank you for replying. I think I understand what you are saying a little better now, and you make your point well. I don't agree with it, but defend to the death your right to say it.

The forum is a group of individuals, true, but we have one thing in common, if nothing else - we are all posting in the same place. We are all separate human beings, but like any group, there is a dynamic.

Its a strange phenomenon, but where human beings lump together, something happens, and there are invisible bonds, alliances, antagonisms, disparities and affections. This happens if we want it to or not, it happens in every forum. It happens on a regular commuter train, in a bus queue, in a corner shop, in a theatre, an office, a home, to varying degrees.

I don't think of it as arrogance. It may be what puts us closer to the angels, than the devils...



imogen

Missing someone on a personal level is different - I said nothing about that. One of the sentences of mine that you quoted makes that clear:- "By that I mean that the forum wouldn't be any the lesser without them." Notice the word "forum".

I agree what you say, Imogen. What I found to be arrogant in this thread is the idea put forward that people ought to lurk a while, to get a feel for the people in the place, before posting a question, as though the forum belongs to the regulars. That's what I've been writing about. It is not *our* forum, etc. etc. etc.

We're down to splitting hairs about definitions again then I guess, which I hate. Healthy discussion should not require frequent trips to the dictionary. To me, people are an "intrinsic" part of the forum. If a bot posts to the forum, but no one is around to read it, does it make a sound? Hence value on a personal level, to me makes it of value to the forum, and thus not "nothing" as you insist upon. The only thing clear to me is that you still insist on isolating "people" from "forum". But then where does the forum come from?

If that's the holy ground you choose to stand on, I'll just go stand over here with those arrogant bastiges at wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurker


But then I don't know anything about the web.

LQQK they even used the word etiquette wrongly too, you best go straighten them out Phil.

I'm not splitting any hairs. You can't take something that is said and add an extra meaning to it, especially when what was said came with a very clear sentence of what it actually meant

You can stand where you want, but it doesn't make any difference. This forum was created for people to ask questions - not for people to lurk a while before asking questions. Be careful - you are sinking in the ground that you are standing on

Your definition of sinking needs work too. Since you don't want me "adding" anything to your sentences I'll just stop using them for now and go back to the basics. It is *common* etiquette that a new user to a forum lurk for a period of time and learn the local community's ways. Had the OP simply taken this *common courtesy* step, all of this might have been avoided. That fact is not going anywhere.

What I find lamely Ironic is that Phil has basically lambasted everyone for steering this thread off course and not helping...

When he has successfully completely derailed and made the thread all about his opinions of "the forum community" around here.

What the heck was his motivation? To help the original poster? If so - he failed miserably.

In other words .. Phil .. heal thyself.

Phil simply enjoys having the last word, afterall his bots dont care

It was me that first suggested in this thread that lurking in this forum was a good idea. Its not required, of course, it is and always has been a suggestion, under what is known as 'netiquette' to prevent foot-in-mouth syndrome.

And as I first said... the forum is what it is. You may believe that it shouldn't be a community, but like it or not, it is.

imogen

Maybe he read the Thread title and figured he was cool being a Critic ...

just not of what the OP wanted criticized.

PD = 2K

LOL I doubt that.

More likely Phil was just eager to criticize his fellow forum's posters.

Over-eager some might say.

I always figure that a few foot-in-mouth posts is required to really become a forum regular. Then everyone can forgive you, post wonderful supportive posts and share a group hug.

Otherwise a forum can get stale.

Just back to the OP for a moment. I am not sure if she/he is still looking for constructive opinions but I do wish that all club owners would focus less on making their club beautiful and therefore a nightmare to rez and more on the staff and music.

So many of the clubs I go to for live music are just full of textures and whirly things that I end up spending all my time focused on the floor while I dance when I would much rather be checking out the other dancers (where did she get that dress. oooh I like that dance, he's cute, etc...).

If posing a question in a forum designated for answers and helping fellow residents is also asking for ridicule, speculation and insults, why are we so quick to blame the OP, if their question and/or request was legitimate?

I don't see how, by asking a question, people should just expect to be treated as a lower form. And again, why are we quick to blame the OP, when it is clearly the few "bad eggs" that are fault for setting this "etiquette"?

The 2nd post was a bait. They knew that this forum could go one of two ways with their response, and let the chips fall where they may lay. Now, the OP could have handled the situation better .... or they could have handled it the way they did. Again, the 2nd poster knew this, and and responded accordingly. It wasn't necessary. Albeit, I share the same type of humor, however, one has to learn the proper time and place for such antics. I'm sure many of you would agree with one another that this entire forum IS just that time and place, and again, that is not the OP's fault. That is your own, for setting that tone.

If people should be expected to lurk in a forum designated for resident questions and answers, before actually posting a question and getting help, then we have failed as a community. Also, I have a feeling that we'd lose a lot of people coming here for help, leaving this forum to die out (except as a general chat forum for the regulars). Again, look at yourself to blame if you feel otherwise, or if you can justify the way things currently are in these forums.

Boy you asked for it there

better luck next time -but don't smear your hands in honey and ask the bear just to lick it off. The bugger will bite your hands off.

True life story, dumb yanks, Yellowstone park, 5 year handless child.