Traffic Bots Against the TOS of LL?

Okay a few comments.
First of all, Phil was not the one starting with bots, he was confrontated with competition that used them and decided to join in. So it seems kind of strange to picture him as the cause, with a possible 100 to follow.

Furter, Mortvent you talk as if you know a lot about the way the system works yet you prove you do not. The problem with concurrency has got nothing to do with the amount of logins, but with the load they put on the system. Now take 5 things that put a heavy load on the system:
- large inventories: bots have none.
- many groups: bots have none.
- teleporting: bots don't.
- primmy avatars: bots are not.
- rezzing: bots do not rezz items.

All things considered, bots hardly strain the system.

Last one (typing on iPhones sucks). I am one of Phil's competitors. Yet as long as LL thinks it is okay, he is entitled to run his bots. Simple as that.

But it's quite staggering how it's usually you who manages to "misinterpret" things, isn't it? And if you did make such mistakes, then surely you would admit them when pointed out to you, but I've never once seen you admit to such a mistake, Colette - never.

Since when did the author's explanation of what was meant influence you, Colette? Do the words "many, perhaps most" mean anything to you? No amount of the author not only explaining what the words actually mean, but also stating categorically what was meant by them, stopped anyone from "misinterpreting" them, including you, Colette.

And don't go off on one with it, as you've tried to do before - no I'm not smarting over it, but I do remember things.

The fact that you never really understood what was happening before, does not mean that you really understand what people are saying now.

In your case I would chalk it up to selective amnesia.

Tsk you forget there is still overhead on the servers from the bots.

A bot still has to tell the grid where it is at all times. It still has a network traffic as it pushes it's data and receives it's data from the server.

That is still an impact on the system.

The login servers specifically, not the asset servers (the ones that handle the inventory, prims, textures, etc)

So they do have an impact on the grid as a whole, hence why logins can still be working yet the asset server can be on hiatis. It's not all on one server.

There are multiple subsystems as part of the grid, claiming that a bot has no impact is ignorant of that. It may not affect the current sim, or the asset server but it still affects the network in other ways as much as any other avatar.

Firstly, its not widely known that Phil uses bots.....a couple thousand people reading Residents Answers is just a drop in the ocean in the total number of active users logging into SL.

When any given person lands in Phil's shop, there is a little mini-map in top right hand corner which will show an armada of green dots on it, it's at that point the person can make up their minds to either stay or leave....as it will be very clear that these green dots do not represent customers in a shop at any given time. It's about making choices.

The fact that Phil makes a healthy amounts, means a great number of Avatars make purchases. I offer you the same challenge as i did to Gabrielle......if you think my defintion of "silent majority" is exaggerated........go prove me wrong and do your homework.......but please thereafter, quit with the constant whining!



Most people don't give a damn......accept my above challenge and finally get a clue about shopping behavioural patterns!




Most of Phil's rivals will fall into various categories

-Those that are close but below Phil in Place search will probably be miffed. By the same token i doubt if you are in say the top 5, theres going to be much difference in terms of sales and the chances are those who are in top 5 are probably gaming traffic too.

- the grouping that sits just behind the bot users have probably most to gain and this grouping would probably be the most vocal in terms of being anti-bots

- then there are others although below in Places rankings rely on other forms of marketing, maybe focusing more on All Search or even Classifieds, so won't care too much either way. I fall into this category as regards to my own business sector

-Then there are those that are buried so deep down in Places Search anyway, that even if Bots were banned, it will make next to no difference to their business in terms of higher listings to effectively help their sales e.g instead of showing up on page 4 they might gain 50 or more places and jump onto page 3. I doubt many of these would make much hoohah other than question business ethics or whatever.


So much of these anti- bots arguments focuses on Places Search being THE main sales generator. Its simply untrue.....i have to contantly repeat this. If you people would attend some of the marketing courses within SL, you'd know there are numerous ways of promoting your business and realise that utilising Places search is just a small part of it.

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If i were a rival of Phil's and assuming we made similar products....i would concede him ground on the most common keywords on Places Search as i wouldn't be using Bots. I'd copy and paste all of his keywords onto a notecard and have that in front of me. I would then test each keyword and see what the competition is like on each listing...there will be products where its easier to be near the top...and providing i make the same product, i would then use that keyword in my land description. Its pretty obvious for common keywords like Bed,table,sofas and chairs you're going to end up deeply buried in the listings, so i would avoid using the majority of those and only include a few token ones.


I would subdivide my land so i can use more descriptions.....i would use variants to those common keywords, use secondary words, use foreign translated words and also test "Places search" for unusual furniture items e.g vanity table, grandfather clock, ottomans, bunk beds, curio cabinets, etc
When i find a listing that i have a good chance of being near top of because they are either unusual or niche items....i would go ahead and make it. These type keywords would act as traffic drawers and helps bring in additional traffic. I mean once a visitor arrives in your shop...they get to see all your other products like beds, tables, sofas, chairs etc.

I'd also rent a few selected spots in furniture related malls and place display boards & LM givers. In time i'd focus on developing a sizeable customer group, i'd advertise on forums each time i made a new product, my classifieds would be carefully crafted...maybe placing multiple ads by furniture categories rather than 1 big general advert....again with lots of keyword variants even use of foreign translated words.
There's also external advertising too....like Avastar or Instyle and numerous other publications to place an advert for your Main store. You can also consider having your shop streamed at clubs by DJ's. .....then there are events, treasure hunts, sales....there's so many diffferent ways to market your products.

What you don't do as Phil's competitor........is do absolutely nothing and just camp here in RA and whine away like the skies are about to fall in.

Rene: how many people have the mini map open?

It's not open by default.

So how many turn it on versus leaving it closed so they have more screen real estate for chat windows, inventory and seeing the world?

Lets not make assumptions that everyone has it open.

They burn up processing and tracking resources on the grid like any other avatar. so they are using those resources which can then be stressed to the point the logins have to be restricted due to the load on the network and login servers.

They contribute the same load as any other avatar in regards to the here I am info that is needed to connect to sl.

I thought I'd explained it much earlier. There is no contradiction. Search engines do not make rules for anyone except themselves, and each of them makes its own rules for itself. Nobody outside the engine has to abide the engines' rules. If a webmaster wants to spam the engine to get higher rankings, it's perfectly ok to do it. S/he is not breaking any rules or laws. If the engine chooses to not index the website because of it, it's perfectly ok. No search engine is under any obligation to include all websites.

You're really are getting pedantic. To "Mini map" or not to "Mini map".
Well if people don't have mini-map open, the event becomes a clear cut decision....they just focus on shopping.

I think you just shot the anti-bots, Mort. People who are in the silent majoriy, and against traffic bots, would open the map or mini-map on arriving at a place they haven't been before, especially if they came from Places search and the place had a rather high traffic number.

I don't think anyone who is against traffic manipulation would ever come to my place from the Places tab, and yet people do come - a lot of people. Most come from word of mouth and the All search, but any who are against traffic manipulation will surely open either the map or the mini-map. It's all been said before.

Oh when you point out assumptions on someone's part it's okay. When others do it's insult worthy?

You assume they are aware there are dots up in the sky, when they can very well be unaware of the bot box.

And since they are unaware of the bots, then their shopping there might change if they knew the bots were there. After all they may be unaware the bots are there, and many are unaware that bots can be used to alter the traffic stats in order to manipulate search.

I know a couple that had to be told why people were offering to buy their picks now, as well as explain the current use of camping/bots.

The silent majority is quite commonly unaware of the issues that the vocal minority had problems with.

Lulz at people constantly bringing up the Silent Majority.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3K2N7FZSXc

That's quite different to the "slots" you were claiming.

You don't understand thin clients, Mort, and you are just guessing. I forget his name, but an anti-bot in the previous thread wrote a bot just to see for himself what resources they use, and what he discovered is that it is very very little - so little that the idea of resource-strain is a non-starter. We can see what happens between a bot and the SL system. We know how tiny it is. All you are doing is spreading a false rumour, Mort.

The silent majority doesn't always know what is going on, where the vocal ones are aware of it.

They may in ignorance assume incorrectly there is some private event in a skybox or some such.

Post a sign so the people just arriving with out any knowledge of your use of bots can see that you use them even if they don't have the minimap open.

After all you want an educated and knowledgeable clientele correct? One that can base their decision to purchase on all relevant factors relating to the store and it's goods.

Well it certainly appears that way....otherwise i wouldn't have described it that way.

Especially because the same person who used "The Silent Majority" line ..

tried getting away with this one ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxeFMHyOx3I


LOL

the Irony brings tears to my eyes its so funny.

You look at the client side on the bots.

Does a bot:
1 - get polled for position data by the sim as often as a regular avatar in order to update traffic and the maps?
2 - have a network link to the grid's login servers and maintain that link in order to stay connected?
3 - poll to see if anything has changed in their area so the client can be updated?

The answer you know is yes, so they place a load equal to a standard avatar on the servers that handle that.

yeah whatever - pre-existing bias does not someone else's motivations make.

Whatever criteria you choose which grades one establishment from another will and can be gamed once the parameters have been discovered.

I see you're an old AV. Would you like to enlighten us what happen to the old Voting system SL use to have and why LL decide to disband that? (i think it was before my time)

Ahh were back to the legendary nameless anti-bot protester who supposedly agreed with you Equals PROOF thing again.

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Equally funny is I know who you are talking about and he certainly Never offered his opinions on the technical workings as any sort of proof. You are making it into something it wasn't.

Ohh and lol I remember who it was too.

It was gamed to death by alt accounts and paid votes similar to how bots are used to manipulate traffic and picks are being paid for.

Did I say that? I thought it was you who wanted it.

I've no desire to teach my customers the ways of SL, unless they ask me, as one or two do at times. My store isn't an infohub, y'know. It's a furniture store. I want my customers to base their decisions on all the relevant information about my furniture, that's all.

Why don't you take up the challenge that Rene made? Go out and do some research and ask the exact question that he posted. If you don't do it, it means you can't be bothered, and you're interest in this topic is a lot less that you make out.

Mort you're clutching at straws, those who aren't aware of bots, don't care. They land, they shop, they go home. Those who care about bots, land, open the map, see the bots, and leave.

Same with camping, lucky chairs, freebies, raffle balls yadda yadda yadda.

Then you make an staggering number of mistakes, Colette, because you've done it ever since I first came across you. Truly amazing. It's not just Rene who sees it - you are actually known for it, among other things. And I've never seen you admit such a mistake - not once - not even in this thread. Would you like to belatedly admit your mistakes in this thread to Bella now?

Ignorance doesn't mean they don't care. If you didn't know that your favorite clothing line was made by cheap labor (pratically slavery) in some 4th world country's sweat shops you could hardly be considered to not care due ignorance now could you?