Limiting theft by limiting creation

By reducing the incentive for people to develop them.

No, the crook who developed it will not release the source, because that will let the people he's selling it to undercut him. Instead he'll pull the viewer (which is a perfectly legitimate response to a GPL suit... stop distributing the product) and switch to another scam.

I'm trying to understand this. In the real world, if I make birdhouses, the government don't charge someone else for the ability to make birdhouses so they can check if this new maker is copying my products. Yet in this virtual world, where we are meant to be free, people are wailing nobody should be able to produce without a license of some form.

Yet again I'm seeing call after call for those delinquent spendthrift free accounts to be banished, or at least severely curtailed. Why do people feel so threatened by them? You had the choice to pay for premium membership or not, nobody is forcing you to be somehow "unfairly" treated. Do you feel you get no benefits of being premium, but still wish to wear such membership as a badge of elitist honour?

LL want as many return users as possible, as that means they can show attractive stats to potential partners and investors. So what if the typical free user never spends any money in world, they still add to the social fabric, they are still susceptible to advertising. So the odd one may be a throwaway account to steal content. That doesn't mean all should be banned from partaking in the creative outlet SL can be. This is far too analogous to claiming a certain demographic in society is responsible an above average proportion of a certain crime, and so all people of that demographic should be under curfew.

As a social experiment SL should be revelling in the attitudes shown by far too many on here, where an avatars worth is based on their membership status and contribution to the economy. Sadly, I see the failings of the real world contaminating this virtual world, a world where there should be no need to judge anyone on anything other than their personality rather than the depth of their wallet and their willingness to open it.

It sounded so much different in a thread that was going on the last week or so when someone felt they should not have to give information to get into Zindra..
A lot of the same people are in here that were jumping on that person and now defending the same thing that person was complaining about..
It's the same exact thing..So were they being elitists back in that thread and not elitist now??
The people that are saying the same thing now are being called elitists..Some are a bit more emotional than others and that's understandable..People can call me what they want..
It's not gonna change me one bit..I know what i am and what i'm not..
I just have to wonder what they would have called me if the word elitists wasn't so freshly used in the forum these days LOL
It wouldn't be hypocrite i'm sure LOL

Aaaanyways anonymity is a big part of the problem..
I don't want to know who they are..But LL needs too.. LL is the one that needs to understand that..

A lot of us saw what happened when the flood gates were opened..
It started off with camping and people making alts to sit in the chairs and the logins starting to go from the teens into the 20's..Not all alts but a lot were alts..Then the 30's and everyone thinking the grid was gonna explode..

Then LL pulled the paychecks for camping..Bots start to fill the chairs..Then bots start to fill the boxes and pow..We blow past the 40's and 50's right to 60k logins..
OMG look at all the new people to sl..This is amazing and omg they are not even advertizing Second Life..Look we went from 3million to 5 million..Wow we're good..

No it wasn't all these new people coming to sl..It was alt accounts being made..
Sure you had people coming that saw C.S.I and a couple of sex scandals that had their moments..
But then you had gambling that hit and the OS sim crap and other things that level those rushes off..
Here we are on the weekend and 61k logins..The reason for that is a few months back LL put out a no traffic manipulation rule and it scared some off..

As i said before if they enforce the rule now..Since they now have a way to separate those that need those store and club bots and other bots from those that are cheating..It's gonna go down hard again..
It wouldn't suprize me if it went to half of what is logged in now..That is if they Enforce the rule..Not holding my breath on that one LOL

If you think the majority of those NPIOF's that are online right now are people here to enjoy SL rather than alts standing in a box or on a dance floor or other things that up the number of logins..I'm gonna have to disagree..

My searches and looking at the map is kind of proving that to me at the moment as i look around the grid..

I'm all for anonymity from other users..You get that with the basic free account and with premium as well..
There are a lot more ways to verify now days than when some of us started..
Unverified anonymous accounts allowed to abuse a system that deals with RL money..
Thats kind of hard to understand..Especially when there is another free account they can move to or other ways they can verify..just like you did..

My beef is not about any person or about a class of people..It's about a flaw in the system that LL should have made a temporary tryout service..

They left it up to human nature like it was some kind of experiment to sit back and watch..
Ok lets watch and see what happens when we add this to the system..

If LL bans an NPIOF it's not gonna be chasing it back to an IP ban..They ban the account and a new one is made before you can blink..

I'm all for finding ways to get people into the system so they don't get mixed with all those people that are abusing the loopholes..Keep anonymity from other users..
But there is no reason that rl information should not be given to LL in some way..

And i don't think you have to get rid of the area that is being abused..But it does need to be fixed..You don't just let it keep being abused..

All this falls on LL..They are the ones to blame..because people are going to do what people do..And if some can get away with using a loophole then they will use it..
They will use it until it is fixed properly to where it doesn't make sense to abuse it anymore..

That's far from a certainy, if anything the most talked about malicious viewers always seem to be free to download (or at least I never spotted anyone mentioning a fee).

In most cases they also seem to be a perversion of a feature (Linden made or third party made) that respects permissions simply by commenting those checks out so the "barrier to entry" is pretty low.

That's a leap of faith there too. If instead they keep selling it (and ignoring the ones that are just free already) *and* comply then you are going to get what I've said and what you just conceded: a bunch of copycats.

Instead of one person distributing/selling "viewer X" you'll end up with a dozen all distributing the same viewer and instead of getting rid of it the only thing you achieve is actively helping it grow its userbase as they trip advertising and undercutting each other so even more people will have access to it.

Can we please find another term to use, besides "elitist?"

Payer versus non-payer doesn't work....as both "pay." Not to mention that it is now being attributed to other separations as well.

Are there two words that you can come up with....neither of which "separates?" Equal non-derogatory terms ???

Or is it even necessary to "separate?" Can we not state a thought or opinion without having to be labeled with a classification.....whether it be negative or not? Impossible?

I only know of one of those, Neil Life. ThugLyfe has not been released yet and the PN are pissed that Niel "ripped off" their ripoff tools.

All the rest I know of were *for sale*.

The funniest thing about LL banning people for cryolife is that the people were PAYING FOR their accounts to be banned.

i know..every time i see it now i think of that one thread..then can't help but think it is why it is being used so much now.."oh thats a good word..i must use it lots now"
I say the author of that thread needs lots of spankies


i am going to introduce a new word at this very moment..
lets see if it catches on
some people are being nothing but a big ole
ACETYLSERYLTYROSYLSERYLISOLEUCYLTHREONYLSERYLPROLYLSERYLGLUTAMINYLPHENYLALANYLVALYLPHENYLALANYLLEUCYLSERYLSERYLVALYLTRYPTOPHYLALANYLASPARTYLPROLYLISOLEUCYLGLUTAMYLLEUCYLLEUCYLASPARAGINYLVALYLCYSTEINYLTHREONYLSERYLSERYLLEUCYLGLYCYLASPARAGINYLGLUTAMINYLPHENYLALANYLGLUTAMINYLTHREONYLGLUTAMINYLGLUTAMINYLALANYLARGINYLTHREONYLTHREONYLGLUTAMINYLVALYLGLUTAMINYLGLUTAMINYLPHENYLALANYLSERYLGLUTAMINYLVALYLTRYPTOPHYLLYSYLPROLYLPHENYLALANYLPROLYLGLUTAMINYLSERYLTHREONYLVALYLARGINYLPHENYLALANYLPROLYLGLYCYLASPARTYLVALYLTYROSYLLYSYLVALYLTYROSYLARGINYLTYROSYLASPARAGINYLALANYLVALYLLEUCYLASPARTYLPROLYLLEUCYLISOLEUCYLTHREONYLALANYLLEUCYLLEUCYLGLYCYLTHREONYLPHENYLALANYLASPARTYLTHREONYLARGINYLASPARAGINYLARGINYLISOLEUCYLISOLEUCYLGLUTAMYLVALYLGLUTAMYLASPARAGINYLGLUTAMINYLGLUTAMINYLSERYLPROLYLTHREONYLTHREONYLALANYLGLUTAMYLTHREONYLLEUCYLASPARTYLALANYLTHREONYLARGINYLARGINYLVALYLASPARTYLASPARTYLALANYLTHREONYLVALYLALANYLISOLEUCYLARGINYLSERYLALANYLASPARAGINYLISOLEUCYLASPARAGINYLLEUCYLVALYLASPARAGINYLGLUTAMYLLEUCYLVALYLARGINYLGLYCYLTHREONYLGLYCYLLEUCYLTYROSYLASPARAGINYLGLUTAMINYLASPARAGINYLTHREONYLPHENYLALANYLGLUTAMYLSERYLMETHIONYLSERYLGLYCYLLEUCYLVALYLTRYPTOPHYLTHREONYLSERYLALANYLPROLYLALANYLSERINE'ists

and yes i used it out of context..but i just couldn't resist how long it was

Will that fit in an IM ???

i don't know..i will check right now since i'm in world too

Edit: yes it fits hehehehe

lol....and you lived to tell about it. You're on to something there.

well my alt is on the recieving end..the day i log her on i will let you know if she lived or not..
I'm scared to log her on and it kill her..she cost me a whole 9 dollars and 95 cents..i should have made a throw away and im'd that one

Be careful....I upset quite a few people when I referred to my alt as a Freeloading Beeotch. Five minutes later, I'm an elitist snob. Funny, how you can be both.

The thing is the problems caused by fredom to remain anouymous and content theft are causing dramatic disruption and will continue to increase as nothing is done for fear of causing disruption.

It's really only effecting content creators, consumers would be pretty happy with the prices plunge continuing till everything is for sale at L$1.

LL are doing a pretty good job at propping up the Linden-USDollar rate somehow, but inworld the dollar's stuffed.

I want Oprah bunny quotes and "per say" to make a comeback

Opraho what do you think is missing from the world today,Ceka??

Ceka: Well Oprah, I have to say that it's really been a long time since i have seen these used
Per say..

Yeah as an Aristicratical Elitist Snob (AES) myself, I've just about had enough of my freeloading alts, they keep asking for Lindens, never earn any themselves or if they have, they've never used it to pay me back

I LOVE those! (in a satanic sort of way)

They are soooooo missing here!

Ya ok I was only jokeing LOL
Stopping content creation would make SL nothing but a crappy version of Active Worlds but then again LL IS getting advice from those same people... so maybe that is the way loser lab will go lol

Umm, if someone builds toasters, does companies tax returns, acts as security, sells houses, repairs cars or wire houses, run a shop, they have to be licenced, or at least a registered business.

Should there also be no business licences for people in RL whom you are paying money to?

We can never be free where money is involved. Complete freedom means complete freedom to rip others off too.

*OOOOO* The forums didn't send me my e-mail copies of messages, and now the thread has exploded and gone way off track.

Now, what I originally wanted to talk about was the specifics of limiting creation -- by which I meant not "designing something original" but "putting something onto the asset server that didn't previously exist". A couple people way back were talking about the XML issues, but if unverified accounts were limited from creating, wouldn't that block that, or at least make it no longer worth the hassle? No matter where you got the XML information from, what's the point of having it if just sits in your viewer cache and you can't import it?


I think there's a difference between being universally available and being universally present. I don't think making a small threshold obstacle would deter people who want to create -- or know they might want to some day, but I think it would make a dent in people who want to benefit from others' effort without putting in any of their own.

I'd like to see two different types of non-Premium accounts: a free, limited Tourist account, and a verified Basic account that requires a small one-time payment, $5 or something similarly low. This would cut back on the number of throwaway alts used to cause trouble (of various kinds). The usual objection to this that I hear is that it would create an unreasonable obstacle for good people who can't pay it online, but I just don't see it. For folks who are on limited incomes -- I've been one, more often than not, and I don't see anything unreasonable in asking us (not them) to choose our priorities: creating in SL or a cup of Starbucks. If it's a case of can't-get-a-credit-card-or-PayPal, why not just pay by selling Lindens? LL already takes payment out of your account balance first, so if you're already a content creator, just allocate some of your profits to cover it. If you're not a creator yet, earn the Lindens some other way -- there are non-escorting ways to do that. We're not talking health care here; it's not gonna kill anyone to have to wait until they can earn the money before they can rez a cube. Yes, it would be an inconvenience for some people, but in whole it would cause much less inconvenience than throwaway accounts are causing now.


Um, no. At least not for me. I couldn't care less about people's profits -- if that's their primary reason for creating, then they're just manufacturers, not creatives, and it's up to them to manage their risks properly. I DO care about protecting the emotional inspiration of creators, so that they continue to feel this is a productive and fun environment for them to be in, and I care about protecting the overall climate of SL so that it's a positive place to be and not a place where theft and griefing are accepted or shrugged off.


It's not about being threatened or unfairly treated or any other personal reason. It's about considering all the options for fostering a healthy creative climate and choosing the ones with the best cost/benefit ratio for the SL world as a whole. And it is not about banning anyone from creating. Just as premium users chose to be premium, NPIOF users choose to be NPIOF. If they want to create, they would be free to choose elsewise.

My Freeloading alt says "You have some nerve....pulling that ""Tude"" when you can't even spell Aristocratical."

Please use the Oprah bunny quotes for ""Tude""

You may not think that is unreasonable....and some others certainly do not.....but there is an uproar in the blogowhatever forum that makes that sound like you are asking for blood.

The pay by selling lindens seems reasonable, too. But I bet there would be an uproar on deducting those as well.

Yes....it appears that it might kill some people to cough up dough to rez a cube.

Elitist = Anyone who doesn't think they're entitled to get something for nothing

It's really pathetic, because I have a long history of being rapid about classism and equal access to resources. But equal opportunity/equal access means having the chance to go after what you want, with your success at getting it being dependent on your own skills, talents, time, and effort, not on having started out on the good end of an uneven playing field. It does not mean having things handed to you on a silver platter.

Proudly elitist, me.

Soul Sister! If that's the case....I will shut-up and wear the tag.

Here's a new twist. I just saw the term "Entitlistic Elitist"......explain that one.

Whatever you do.....do NOT mention giving up Starbucks for SL over there.

The only way this would solve the problem of unverified accounts is if the "tourist" account was limited to a small subset of the grid. Say, infohub sims only. Because only ELIMINATING throwaway accounts from the majority of the grid will solve the problem. It doesn't matter if the throwaways can't rez anything, can't wear attachments, can't chat or use voice, they'll still grief people even if only by running around and physically obstructing people. Because they've done that, successfully, in the past (oh no, mister linden, I didn't do nothing, I was just standing there).

Verifying an account doesn't cost anything. Just give LL a credit card #. They won't even charge on it. It's not an unreasonable restriction.

My objection is that I don't want to be in a world where there are second class citizens.

The internet is a place where people's stuff gets copied around infinitely. And yet people create all kinds of amazing things and put them up on Deviant Art and other graphical blogs. Having your stuff handed around is not a problem for amateur artists... getting people to pay attention to it is.

The permissions scheme is there to protect professionals. It's to encourage people to produce 30 color variations of an outfit instead of just making a single cool outfit or avatar and letting people try and color it themselves. It's to encourage people to do all the boring business stuff that happens after you create.

Well..... Yes.

If they don't comply, then LL sues them. If they *do* comply, then LL can see where the exploits are, how they're being exploited, and seal the breach.

Of course, this is all contingent on LL exercising due diligence on their *own* IP.