Limiting theft by limiting creation

A few days ago there was a thread asking what was meant by elitist on these forums.

I think I've found the perfect answer.

and them blaming a non-paying customers about their sl misery doesnt surprise me

If someone uses a stolen credit card to create a SL account to sell stolen stuff or grief, they are commiting credit card fraud and crossing a big line drawn by international banks and they won't muck around if it's at all possible to catch them, especially if they have to steal a new credit card number nearly daily as their accounts get shutdown. They might not get caught overnight but they will get caught eventually. Compared to that using an anoymous free alt is practically risk free.

Besides if they are using a stolen credit card, why are they going to bother using it for unethical business practices when they can just keep buying Linden dollars with it and sending them to Money Laundering bots till they hit the limit.

Yep now there's an example of "Elitism", "we're rolling in dough, who cares what business is like for the lower class?".

Ya especially when a lot of free accounts are from someone that has a basic or premium account..They think we are picking on someone just checking out SL and missing the whole big picture... new member numbers if they were still as high as it was back when the rush was on would be 15 out of 100 staying in sl after checking it out..

LL only wishes they had those kind of numbers now days..Logins would be going up..

I guess they didn't notice logins go down when LL first brought out their traffic manipulation rule..

Whoa!! We're almost ready to hit 100k in logins any day now..Oh crap!! Did you see this new traffic rule?Take them down..They are useless..

It scared some at first so logins went down to around the 60k's..Now they are easing back up because nobody really saw anything being done..

Now this scripting agent thing is out to separate those that really need them and the ones that were using them for the numbers to up their position..

If LL enforces it's rule now..Logins will take another good drop..

But i guess that will also be another oppression placed on all those free accounts they feel are living in some virtual ghetto..

I mean do people actually believe that we went from the 20k logins to the 60k logins over night because all of a sudden all these people found interest in SL?
(not really over night but it was pretty fast hehehe)

It was because LL stopped paying for traffic numbers and camping became an expense.. Bots didn't charge as much as residents to sit on their chairs or in their boxes or model 60% of their products..

As far as content theft..Ya i am sure there are some really stupid people that try to steal using their basic and premium accounts..But the ones with half a brain know better and make an account that has no risk at all..It's not a matter of "Omg we are oppressing all the people in the virtual ghetto"..It's a matter of common sense that a thief with half a brain will be as ninja about it as possible..

If they steal a credit card to log in and get caught then at least that one won't be doing it again.. Right now when they sit on these accounts without a drop of risk..It's like picking which chicken you want to cook for dinner tonight..

As i said in my first post..NPIOF should be a trail version..I don't see a reason to have two full time free accounts...If they feel like sticking around then jump to basic which doesn't cost a single penny to get more options..Also premium should be something to shoot for..Those should be made to be more attractive so people will want to be premium again...

Right now it pays better to be NPIOF for the avg user..Thats as backwards assed as it gets..

I was premium for two of my three years..When i first joined i thought SL was a 7 day trial..So i jumped to premium my first day..After two years dropped to basic..My spending didn't slow down when i dropped to basic..I still had my land and shopping sprees..Still paid the same tier..I just didn't see a reason to be premium anymore because i never needed the few options it had..
Up the goodies and i would gladly go back..

If people want to say i am an Elitists then go right ahead..If you ask me the elite are the ones taking what they want when they want as they raid the village..NPIOF,PIU or PIOF..

If people think this is about some separation of classes they have it totally wrong..
It's about NPIOF and PIOF and PIU
It's just as much if not more about making those alts Accountable as their Main accounts..NPIOF is not only about new members..It is about current members as well abusing the NPIOF accounts to manipulate the system...

I am happy for you that you are living financially comfortably and have no need to decide how every penny is spent. There are a great many of us who are not as fortunate as you are.

You ask how we can afford high-speed Internet access and not be able to arbitrarily throw an additional ten dollars anywhere. I can't speak for anybody else, but I can speak for me: My husband and I are both college students, and we require Internet access. Do we need high-speed broadband? No, probably not. But our phone company provided us with a package that made financial sense, and so we have 6Mbps ADSL for not much more than the cost of dial-up service. Since we require Internet in order to get our degrees (and I need it in order to attend class), its cost takes a much higher priority in our budget than any other discretionary spending, and we have stretched out our food budget to accommodate it. If it means eating Top Ramen for a week to pay for our Internet, then so be it. But if you're asking us to live on Top Ramen for *another* week just so you can get a warm and fuzzy about your status as a premium member, then you can respectfully go to hell.

Nope doesnt me either lol not in the lest
Besides the best and coolest builds you will ever find are usally from those crafty little buggers that are smart enough to not pay the Lab lol

if they are cashing out they are paying the lab
I don't know too many people running around doing kick ass custom builds or full sim builds for free..
I am sure there are some but in most cases the piper gets us all in the end hehehehe

This is always your reply - money isn't the only issue. I've replied to this more than once.

Some people do not have the credit card in their home. LL ought to at least allow family accounts i.e. under one payment plan/info, if they begin to demand every single av is tied to real info. That would help people who for instance do not yet have their own credit card. Perhaps for one certain fee a whole family could buy an account, and register to one payment method. That would allow 'junior' to be a 'legal citizen' of SL, for those of you who insist on "where are your papers."

But also, people want anonymity for a variety of reasons, including just, the sense of freedom. What you want is a police state, it sounds like to me.

A lot of paying citizens also might use an alt to build, to run a shop, etc. Usually for good reasons including a bit of peace and quiet from their busier main.

(ETA: By elitist I meant that sense of "we were here first, and we don't want any new unscrubbed people to get in. So let's make it more difficult."

Your assumption that I am living "finacially comfortably" is wrong, I doubt many people are, where does my $10 come from? Well I'm not "comfortably wealthy" enough to smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol regulary, or have pizza delivered or buy magazines and newspapers, or own more than 4 pairs of shoes, or more than one wardrobe of clothes, I sacrifice those "luxuries". I don't have the luxury of a video console better than my Atari2600. I drive a 1989 car with dents and rust. It's been a long time since I've seen Steak, Barramundi or Prawns on my BBQ.

I see countless "poor" people, 2 couples sharing 2 bedroom apartments, can't afford their rent, but fill their garbage bins with cigarette cartons, takeaway containers and bourbon bottles every week.

It would make sense to allow the 4 registered alts of a premium account the same priviledges of course. If someone need more than 4 alts running shops then they are obviously doing enough business to afford another premium account.

There's no good reason to limit the number of registered alts.

Probably true, other than limiting people from running 100 bots with full premium priviledges from one Premium account. Maybe 9 or 19 alts would suffice for most people.

Tegg when will you see this isn't about money?

And why do you seem so determined to outline what everyone else in SL can do? I'm going back to the Zindra discussions now as well.

I may not do what others do but I do not count myself their judge and jury. I don't assume they are up to no good because they do not make the same choices as myself.

How many alts to allow and why has been discussed repeatedly in SL and these forums, and yet, some still think no one should have any. Why is that? Why is it any skin off your personal nose?

Why would any alt accounts have premium priviledges? Registering an alt is only about accountability, isn't it?

An escape from misery Tegg, the same way SL is for many people.

And some would take that away from them, simply 'because.'

Having all account holders identified to LL, and LL only is not a Police State. I'm all for finding all sorts of ways to get people to be verified to us SL, beyond the current CC/PIOF method, but every SL avatar should have a name attached to it so LL can contact them, if necessary. this information would not be available to another accounnt holder,and LL would have to do everything possible to secure this infprmation, something that admittedly is a frightening idea.. We should be anonymous except to LL. Beyond verifying, I'm not really concerned if a person is Premium, PIOf, or NPOIF.

As far as alts go, let people have all they want for I care, but they should be tied to a primary account., possibly with the abilty to share inventory as maybe something one would pay extra for. But the throwaway, disposable alt has to stop. While only a minority may do nefarious deeds with it, it is creating an atmosphere that will possibly drive away people who do want t pay for SL.

Some speak of elitism, but on the other side of the coin is an etitlement mentality that thinks one has some inherent right to use SL, refardless of what it's owners may say, and that someone who pays for the service should not have anything a free member doesn't have.

Yep, but they choose those luxuries over SL or Playstation. People don't "need" to spend $50 a week on alcohol and cigarettes to survive instead of paying off a decent car.I don't say take it away from them, I just saying they aren't entitled to say someone else who forgoes those things for other things is Elitist because they look flashier at the surface.

My dad got rid of his BMW because he couldn't leave it in the shopping centre he worked at, people kept keying the paintwork because it was viewed as "Elitist" I suppose.
The stupid thing was the people would ignore the "Non-Elitist" 2002 $20k Sedan next to it, to deliberately vandalise a 1976 $6k BMW with a shinier $1k paint job.

I'm not calling for Elitism or a Poilce State anymore than other people are calling for Annarchy.

Why?

And why do some not seem to fathom that someone who games the system one way will continue to do so - including providing fraudulent identity?

Suddenly a few are demanding that every account be 'locked down.' Why? For what purpose? What is it you (personally) are seeking to solve?



What are you basing this on? Have you surveyed each resident of SL, for instance? Why the sudden urgent necessity for this? What do or would, you personally, gain from insisting upon what others must do?



Say what again?

First, no one's saying anyone has an "inherent right" to be in a virtual world. We're asking that people not be penalised unfairly when they are innocent of any wrongdoing.

Also we're saying that this does not address let alone solve the issue of content theft.

If someone lives in a country where copyright does not exist, a corporation in America cannot change that fact. Or, has yet to do so. The reasoning behind this new sweep does not make sense.

Tegg, your dad's car doesn't figure into this. Do you know for sure that's why his car was damaged, first of all? My mom's caddy ornament was stolen because some people like to wear it around their neck. So what does any of this have to do with SL?

Again this is not the way I mean "elitism." You are not understanding what I'm trying to say.

(It's the notion that a few can decide for the many, okay??)

As for anarchy - it doesn't apply here. We are all under a voluntary contract. There is a system put into place, with rules. But you seem to be implying there already IS anarchy because each account does not have personal information tied to it. We saw with Zindra that not everyone can provide this type of information even when they wish to. So again, why is this necessary, and what will it solve?

People also implying that any tightening up on verification for business owners is somehow Totalarism and will mean we end up in some sort of 1984 George Orwell Police state.

Should the many decide on things that only effect the few?

Is it Elitist to change the rules for business owners based on what business owners do or don't want?

Would having verified business owners really make things harder for the many, the average consumer?

Remember folks for a VERY long time there were NO free acts. There was premium and there was basic. You had to pay like 9.95 or something one time fee for basic.

So honestly everyone that was here BEFORE the free acts started already has paid and has their info on file with LL.

LL is going to have a VERY bad time if they do away with free and ONLY give the option of premium. They will also have a hard time doing away with free without either grandfathering existing frees or allowing people to pay that 9.95 and killing the limits on alts. After all if they know who everyone is what do they or we care how many any one person has. Makes it easier to bust someone for a bot farm.

Now on to my one big complaint with doing away with frees. It will do no good. Joe Schmoe gets an act he uses a false name and false info and backs it up with a gift card in the same false name. making him pay did butkiss to fix the anonymity problem.

I was one of the loudest yelling against frees when they came into existence. That bird has flown. LL has got to be SUPER careful what they do if it comes to doing away with frees now or they will destroy what little is left of SL.

They already have the ability to market and distribute via websites and torrents.

As for all the rest people simply don't comprehend how easy it is to deal with the problem.

Linden Lab hires PI to track down the people distributing counterfeiting systems not in compliance with GPL. Stroker did it (fingered people irl). So can LL.

Linden Lab files lawsuits. The real life names and addresses of the people that have wreaked havoc in SL for years are now known to the world as a matter of public record.

Karma ensues.

It really is as simple as that.

It's not a mater of doing away with free, unverified's, they have been a great boom in ways, but more a matter of requiring verification for those who are in more pivotal positions of power where they have more power to scam others such as people running businesses, renting sims to others, setting up advertising networks or selling content.

Unverified accounts should still be able socialise, buy stuff, create stuff and give it to friends, my opinion is they shouldn't to sell it.

Noone needs to verify:
1) person creates an alt
2) person does misschief with the alt
3) alt gets banned
4) jump back to (1)

If everyone needs to verify then the main benefit is that you have a far better way of keeping people from just creating a new account whenever their last alt get banned (not to mention that you can now ban their main as well).

It's far from perfect, but it's a big forward compared to what we've had for the past three years.