Limiting theft by limiting creation

Honestly if the free and totally anonymous act still exists then those will be the ones doing the copying. Once they got the UUIDs to plug into XML they dont need to be able to in any way shape or form build. they can sell the stuff through other acts or from websites that have nothing to do with LL.

Being in a position of power just means they are more likely NOT to copy stuff and grief.

There is no single easy solution to the problem, there have been others that haven't been able to be tracked down by PI's and others even when tracked down are unreachable short of paying someone to kidnap them into your country.

Multiple measures need to be taken, Prevenitative measures are usually a bit more important than Reactive measures. Both are needed. There need to be people resources focused on preventing illegal immigrants, drugs & guns coming into a country, not just waiting till people are caught.

The more legal lines you can prove someone crosses to commit a crime the more chance you have of appropriatly punishing them.

All accounts on the teen grid are 100% hard verified yet it is said to be almost nothing but counterfeit goods spirited away from the main grid.

These ideas about restricting business simply and permanently are futile and appear in most cases to be proposed and supported by people who are mired in circa 2005 content creation techniques and whose businesses are failing and will fail upon the introduction of mesh import.

LL needs to do nothing but increase SL's capabilities and let the economy sort itself out.
In addition enforce GPL as I mentioned above.

Everyone incapable of evolving has the choice to become a consumer or quit. Period.

Of course they would use unverifieds to do the copying, but if they needed verifieds to sell the product then they are going through a lot more trouble and risk to do so. Will their $10 account actually sell $10 of stolen stuff before it gets shutdown vs 50 anoymous alts doing the same for free.

Tegg the point is they dont have to. They can sell the information totally outside LL for real money then the buyer brings the stuff into SL with an import program.

No need for any kind of verified act at all to steal if you are so inclined.

Yes, but LL must curently have control or require verification on who can send items to other peoples inventories on the asset server?

Otherwise anyone could just crash the server by spamming junk to everyones inventories.

And a person going to the trouble of setting up something like Xstreet or MetaSales isn't going to risk losing a lot of work and business sellng stolen stuff.

They are not willing to hear reality. But nice try at stating the fact there is nothing anyone can do to stop rampant looting as long as there are people who laugh in Klingdon's face and develop or support the development of counterfeiting systems. I stated what the solution is. Again nobody wants to hear that either.

And your point is?

I specifically pointed out that it doesn't stop anyone from doing anything "naugthy", but that it has a far better chance of stopping the revolving door problem.

So unless you can show that LL is banning those teens responsible for importing copyrighted content on the teen grid and that they can and do just sign back up again you completely missed the point.

If the "permanent" in "perma banned" actually carries meaning (it doesn't have to be absolutely perfect and can be adjusted as tactics change) then you have at least one realistic deterrent where today you have none.

It's not "the solution" just part of overall efforts. Nothing will work 100%. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't bother trying multiple impedments to theves livelyhood, making their work as difficult as possible.

When a MMO sets up a pay to play game, they don't leave the gates open for anyone to login then employ people go hunting for people who aren't paying to play, they attempt to stop them getting in.

Tegg I am not going to go into any more detail than I have about exactly how its done. I will only say it would be individuals upload the the files from their own computers to their own avatars after purchasing the stolen content offworld. The way I had it explained to me unless LL totally plugs what lets things like Meerkat and Second Inventory work they got ZERO way to stop this one.

Sure they can't stop this one easily, but if only verified account could sell stuff the weak point in the criminals plan is that account. And perhaps it is a leak that should be plugged completely in favour of a LL verified way of doing Second Inventory like features. It's impossible to stop people copying items, but not impossible to prevent them entering the asset server from unverified sources.

There are viewers out there where someone asks for new features and people ask for free linden dollars, which as far as I know is just not possible but others complain that the skin ripping isn't perfect, the eyes aren't right, they want shape and script ripping improved and LL do sod all about this, absolutely sweet FA because it's a third party site, they shrug their effing shoulders.

However woe betide the education site SLed who despite being promoted by LL have the temerity to use the letters SL in their domain name, then LL flex their muscles.

There's something hugely wrong with this picture.

Tegg last try by me I got other things going on tonight.

NOTHING is being sold INWORLD in my scenario. SO it dont matter one darn bit if the act is limited and cant sell things.

None of the proposals would fix the problem.

There are plenty of full-perm prims and scripts to use, so you could copy content without "creating" it.

BTW, *payment* has nothing to do with it. This isn't a free vs. paid issue. Accountability is the only issue. Accountability can be provided by PIOF, but unfortunately, not *enough* accountability due to full-perm freebie prims floating around.

Locking out the edit panel for NPIOF accounts won't work either.

There may be a way, but it wouldn't be simple and would require a lot of record-keeping (of whoever modified an object) to be completely effective.

In any case, it's silly to discuss it until someone can propose something that actually works. I haven't seen one yet. In fact, all proposals so far are trivial to thwart, much more easily than the methods posted above. They could easily be coded into a copybot.

None of these proposals would fix the problem, nor would any of the alternatives suggested above.

There are plenty of full-perm prims and scripts to use, so you could copy content without "creating" it.

BTW, *payment* has nothing to do with it. This isn't a free vs. paid issue. Accountability is the only issue. Accountability can be provided by PIOF, but unfortunately, not *enough* accountability due to full-perm freebie prims floating around.

Locking out the edit panel for NPIOF accounts won't work either.

There may be a way, but it wouldn't be simple and would require a lot of record-keeping (of whoever modified an object) to be completely effective.

In any case, it's silly to discuss it until someone can propose something that actually works. I haven't seen one yet. In fact, all proposals so far are trivial to thwart, much more easily than the methods posted above. They could easily be coded into a copybot.

Does someone have a serious suggestion that might work? I'd love to find one, but I haven't so far.

So, only verified accounts could have $L transferred to them from another avatar's account?

That is the only way to stop sales. Unfortunatley, it would be pretty hard on all those honest wage earners in SL.

/me nods, then zips her lips immediately, and pours another glass of Shiraz.

Perhaps that's a problem to overcome, perhaps objects unverifieds shouldn't b able to recieve money from objects, then I guess bots would be used instead. Nohings perfect solution but that doesn't mean therefore we do nothing.

Nothing works 100%, even the mighty Permission system fails, so might as well dump it completely, it causes more resident problems and doesn't stop theft at all.

I just don't see any possibilities ever working while we continue to preserve the right of anonymity for everyon including the less moral. It doesn't work in RL so no chance of it working here.

Thats the thing..even if there was something that did work it probably wouldn't be used anyways..
there is no cure at all to stop something dead in it's tracks..The only thing that could happen would be something that slowed it down or made a good dent..

I enter these threads knowing it's all hypothetical..No matter what we say here it seems to fall on deaf ears with LL anyways..

If you mention NPIOF some tend to think it is meant as trying to hurt new people coming into SL..

If there is someone running something to steal from people in SL..the last person that would be doing that would be someone that doesn't know the first thing about Second life..
most don't even know there is a search button until day two..

myself i wasn't just pointing to one problem or one type of account that a blame for these would fall on..

the problem is the abuse coming from all three types of accounts abusing one type..
For a dead stop cure there would be a lot of casualties a lot of limits placed and it would be a heck of a lot harder to get in here than it is now..

We won't find a cure..only things to make dents..things to make it a bit harder or more of an inconvenience..

Lets take this traffic manipulation rule as an example of being efficient..if i were to try to work on that problem would i start at the back of the search or would i start looking at the ones with the most traffic?
If i really wanted to make a dent i am gonna head to the most noticeable place where the problem exists..
i bet that shot would be heard around the grid when the first two or three pages are dealt with..

I have little faith they'll handle it that way and we know they are not going to be changing anything with NPIOF accounts that are abused by all types of accounts..


Some people are saying Zindra and the way we have to verify has failed because some people couldn't get in..
Maybe it did work and some needed to prove who they were to get in or something in their information has changed since..or they just shouldn't be getting in..
there will always be cases of victims of glitches..it doesn't mean every one we hear about is telling the truth..

Nothing will change unless LL wants it to..
maybe they have some master super secrete plan that is supposed to come out in this super sonic SL2.0 that will fix it all hehehe

How do you propose they buy stuff if they are not allowed to sell or make any money in any way?

It seems to me, when you create such a class of people who are forbidden from making any money, that the only way these people would be able to get much of *anything* would be to steal it. In short, you will have created a whole criminal underclass. Instead of solving the content theft problem, you drive it even deeper into the realm of the anonymous!

Yeah, I get it, Melita.

I am going to very tentatively suggest an unpopular analogy here, with the caveat that it is ONLY an analogy, not an identity. But this sounds a BIT like the "a few people are misusing child avatars, so let's ban all child avatars" line of thinking.

Of course some people are abusing free or unverified accounts. Some people are also abusing verified or PIOF accounts as well. And I've seen no stats here to suggest that NPIOF accounts are so significant a problem as to justify penalizing the many thousands of freebie accounts who are causing no harm.

I am verified, but NPIOF. I make and sell books. It's not exactly a huge business, but I think it provides a service, and enhances at least somewhat the SL experience. And it allows me to participate in the SL economy, even if I am not making regular payments to LL from my bank account. My SL business would probably just barely cover the cost of a premium membership. Frankly, if I were forced to become premium, I'd probably just leave.

Yeah, the loss of my books would not have the kind of impact that Stroker's sex beds do. But I think SL would be diminished a little by it. And if you add incrementally the loss of all the freebie account creators that you would be discouraging, I think it would add up. Significantly.

Nice point, Kath.

OP says, "Limiting theft by limiting creation "

Isn`t that what LL is intending to do with their "Content Management" Roadmap?


Here are 4 requirements you will need to have to be a "Content Creator" in SL:

From their "blog" :

1. have identity and payment information on file with Linden Lab;
2.. be in good standing and not have been suspended for any violation of the Second Life Terms of Service;
3. meet a minimum threshold for content transactions; and
4. affirm that all necessary intellectual property rights and licenses have been obtained for all content that the Resident has for sale.


Point #3 is probably some high number unrachable by 95% of SL. Sounds like a plan LL: Have 100 elitist "Content Creators" to watch over and protect from thievery, and oh well to everyone else.

The normal way myself and other accounts get money, credit card or paypal. Despite popular opinion money isn't created in SL from nothing, somebody has to actually cash in.

I seriously hope theft isn't most residents prefered option before cashing in, otherwise it explains a lot.