Limiting theft by limiting creation

Contest? What contest? Can I win a fuzzy little critter or sumpin?

Yay! We win!

The principle is pretty much the same, it's all about entitlement and a sense that free accounts are superior to paid accounts.

My reason for being on SL is solely entertainment. I'm one of those useless consumer type person who doesn't create but is dumb enough to waste real money on SL; aka one of the people who's paying money so there's an SL for the NPIOFs to feel entitled to in the first place.

And for the most part I don't even care if half of my tier is going towards paying for NPIOFs. The only thing that ever bothers me is when people have such an overgrown and unwarrented sense of entitlement that not only are they too good to have to pay for anything but they should get every single last perk there is to get as well because... well, they're just entitled to it, duh .

Missing the rather obvious point that a world that consists solely of financial nonviable people will never exist because at the end of the day someone is going to have to pay the bills for it to exist.

Not that financial viability even comes into play at all. NPIOFs aren't RL beggars living on the street or people picking up pennies off the street all day long to afford some food so they don't starve to death; they're people with disposable income who feel SL isn't of enough value to them to spend money on it yet still feel the need to stick around and expect someone else to pay for their costs because they feel they're better than those stupid US$ spending people.

Campers; and yes there were a few thousand of them at any given time. Although those are mostly replaced by bots but the principle still stands.

And of course payment verified accounts do none of those things .

Paying accounts chat, explore, build, etc as well so what's the point you're trying to make? What makes the non-paying (ie non L$ buying or premium) account so superior that someone else should be paying their expenses for them?

There's also something very hypocritical about objecting to paying for SL: some people get upset at the mere suggestion of having to pay for their own account but at the same time are telling others that they should shut up and pay to cover everyone else who feels they're too good to pay for anything.

Bottom line: I'm already paying so others can access SL for free because in no way am I costing LL $105/month (which is my tier; I don't count my L$ shopping as paying for anything except the goods I receive for it) for the few hours a day I spend logged on (nor is there generally anyone at my house but me either). That doesn't make me superior to anyone else, but all things considered it does unfairly burden me if half of what I'm paying is to support someone else who can very easily pay for him/herself.

So my point is that since the majority is clearly refusing to pay for themselves then they should get a nudge to do just that (ie taking away privileges is one good way).
Your point is that I should just put up and shut up and just quietly accept the next tier increase that comes along when LL once again needs more money to cover the growing expense of waves of entitled residents.

Alts Kitty, alts, I have NPIOF alts, if they need to buy Linden dollars at any point, I buy it for them, I'm not a fan of providing my CC details over and over.

First, it was partially said "tongue-in-cheek", which was obviously missed.

Second, since humor context is obviously being ignored, it is stupid to use the argument "nothing breaks two years later in SL", because it is WRONG. WRONG premises lead to WRONG conclusions.

Third, regarding the "quality" angle, two words: sion Chickens.

I think this is touching on a point that's a bit taboo:

If paid accounts are not superior to free accounts, then free accounts are superior to paid accounts.

That sounds a bit odd, but it's true. If free and paid accounts get basically the same thing (and by that I mean, the same ultimate experience), then that means free accounts are superior, because they didn't have to pay for it.

What would happen if 50% of the premium accounts suddenly reverted to Basic?

The problem is, there's no breach to seal, or put differently, no way to seal the breech.

But they don't.

In the long run, we all get the same experience. But I'm in no hurry to get there.

I spread myself across a lot of communities in SL and some are definately more creative people, but around the social circles I find a lot of people who have been here for years whoses building experience is "oh is that what that cube thing I sometimes make is for?"

By "ultimate experience", I don't mean the experience at the end of time (ie, death), but the experience the user has after all factors are accounted for.

If a user pays for an avatar, and another user can get just as much or more interest (of whatever type (!)) by making an avatar from free components, then the paid user is likely to feel cheated.

That might sound like a nasty quibbly argument but there certainly are users who choose not to buy L$ because they want to be sure first there's no good free version of the item they want - and that search never ends.

QFT.. great way to look at it

Because the alternative which doesn't seem to be working is discussing nothing at all and hopefully it may prod some more people to look at the problems and come up with solutions and possibly even prod LL into recognising we aren't really happy with the current situation, but then again maybe a lot of people really are happy with keeping things exactly as is.

Argent - what is the difference between what the accounts offer dollar-wise? I can only see two things that the premium offers - free tier on a 512 - and the 300L stipend. If you were a basic account, and you paid the tier on a 512, and even if you didn't get the 300L a week.....wouldn't you be farther ahead? especially compared to a premium account who does not use the free tier offered on a 512?

What are the other perks?

The "wanted" section would become the most read section of the newspaper at LL HQ?

A more interesting "what if" would be what happens if fewer and fewer people see any value in buying L$ and buy into the whole "you can build, sell and get L$ in-world. Only stupid people buy on the LindeX!" mentality to the point where Supply Linden has to stop creating new L$ because the demand dropped too low.

live support i think and the ability to buy on mainland.

hehe.....and tier fees and other services like Xstreet listing fees and classified ads might go up? Was being facetious when I asked that, of course.

And I'm asking, because I really don't see a reason that most should stay on a premium account. Interesting how a little discussion can change your whole reasoning around.

That's fine that the basic accounts got in an uproar, and made all those great contributions on "why" we do not need to Pay to Play SL....I suddenly wonder why I am Paying? If we are not talking about any other value other than dollars.

But if several thousand others wonder that same thing, and then revert to basic. Some, may have shot themselves in the foot, on how wonderful the "free"dom is.

Not really true: you pay the premium free for the privilege of being able to pay tier .

I.e.: make an alt, make it a premium account and get a mainland sim worth of tier and find 17 people who each want a 4096m² on the mainland.

It would cost them $35/month ($25 for the tier + $10 for premium).
It costs you $12/month ($195 + $10 divided by 17).

They all create their own group, pay you - say $17.5 - invite you and you donate 4096m² to each group.

They can now shop around, buy a 4096m² when they feel like it and own mainland without having to be premium.

You get darn good "Live support" here in the forums. If you have to be on mainland, someone would rent to you. You're technically only renting anyway.

Why stop there?

Not only can you cancel your premium account but you can get one of those highly praised NPIOF anonymous accounts and with a lovely invention called "copybot" you can even skip out onhaving to buy L$ because you can just copy everything you want instead of being stupid and paying for it!

And if you get caught then you just make a new account, big deal, it's not like you ever gave them your name.

Which actually brings us back on-topic . You pay because something has value to you; people who go rabid stating that they're entitled to the world for free are by far the most likely to steal and infringe and the least easy to stop because they're also rabid about how they shouldn't have to provide any identification.

About half of the currently occupied mainland would be abandoned. It might give Linden Lab incentive to open land ownership to basic accounts.

It might not be a bad thing.

First, Mickey, my point is that once you start babbling on about the "overall quality" of the service, you might as well start comparing "Premium account vs not playing SL at all"... and I wish Yumi would try that option.

Second:
Premium *is* the first 512 square meters of tier (it's not "free", it's "bundled", plus some Lindens, plus support. Yes, Support. Really. I've gotten good, fast response to support issues on the mainland.

If you don't want to own anything on mainland, and you are satisfied with the support you get as a Basic, then there's no reason to be premium. I don't see that as a problem.

And, no, paying $5 a month for 512 square meters as Basic would cost you more than paying $1 a month ($72 - 12 * L$300) for the same land with a Premium account.

Then you have to consider "Basic account vs a Breakfast Duo at Cafe Express" because another person finds they're happier with a Bacon Ciabatta than playing Second Life at all.

Argent - I babbled on about quality of service in that other forum. That it was worth at least five bucks a month. Quietly, over here, without LL reading - I would value what I get from SL as somewhere from $25 to $100 a month.

Not too many people would even buy that SL is worth five bucks a month to them. (they would if it were taken away - that five bucks would appear pretty darn fast) - - and it's not my job to convince them of what value they are receiving. That is LL's job.

So - I simply took that value out of the equation.

ETA: sorry - that's getting off topic. But if LL has not convinced all those basic account holders that they are receiving some kind of value for FREE.....you are going to have a tough time convincing anyone that requiring premium accounts for ANYTHING, not just this thread topic....is an option.