Furry ban in Cologne cathedral

Yep, I do recall a few threads about visitor rules in Gor sims. I too am surprised they singled out furs. Would have been easier to just make the rule state that its open to conservatively dressed human avs only. Still seems a bit silly for people to be protesting over it.

I think it is much different.

Gorean: Themed RP based off of a novel series who's core tenents are based off of slavery, wherein the male dominates. (Please forgive the very basic descriptor. I know there is more to the Gorean lifestyle than this, but that would take pages to detail.)

The Catholic Church: Themed off of the Bible who's core tenents are peace, forgiveness, and belife in a higher power, commonly refered to as "God". (Again, simplyfied for clarity.)

I honestly don't care what a landowner does in SL, but claiming to be part of a "loving" and "forgiving" religion, then acting like a bunch of bigots is asinine.

Make a build and call it "The Build" and keep furries out, no one would care. Say it represents a well known religious organization, but is practicing discrimination...well, that's stupid.

And my stance may be provoking, but you know what? That's MY right. I don't have to agree with people whom I feel the world would be better off without. Caliming to be part of an organisation that follows the teaching of Jesus Christ, and then being bigots is hypicritical.

~Jessy

I don't know that it's all that silly, for two reasons:

As I mentioned earlier, plenty of folks think of SL as a place to express one's self, via thier avatars. Being asked to stop doing that just seems to be missing the point of the SL excersize.

And when one's group - no matter how loosely that group is formed or how unimportant that group may be "in the great scheme" - is singled out, it feels a tad personal. And emotional reaction of this sort just seems inevitable.

actually I think most people would see driving the church out of SL as a good thing and the furries would probably be heralded for the move if they could do it.

You have 10,000 other places in SL, why do you have to express yourself in this sim? Why does your right to self expression trump theirs?

I guess that feeling of persecution is an unfortunate side effect of being a member of a group. Which is why I consider myself an individual first, last and always.

I don't think that being asked to wear something appropriate to the venue equates to any kind of personal attack or discrimination. I think furs are just overly sensitive about it due to all the anti-fur griefing and ridicule they endure thanks to the likes of the SA crowd. I just don't think this falls into that category. Of course I could be wrong.

I've been tossing around some ideas for creating a sim based on some original fiction for a backstory and if I did I'd want people to dress the part to maintain the atmosphere of the place. There has to be a balance between people's right to self-expression and the right of a venue to try to maintain a specific atmosphere. That requires some mutual respect that has to go both ways.

So then you would support a resident dressed as a hog visiting a Jewish Temple or Islamic Mosque?

I think you got me wrong (my english is not the finest). A third party is building some church model and people are bitching about the pope - that is the scenario I was talking about. It is ridiculous and sad at the same time. Same goes with the German state .. just wait for a few more pages and this thread will go Godwin.

For the record I'm not christian either.

Didn't say anything like that. The protest is an attempt to change minds, not claim a right. I'm of the opinion "thier land thier rules" is sensible, doubly especially perfectly so in private sims, as this church is in.
No one is an island. Groups are how we function, some folks more so than others. It's identifying AS the group where things can get hairy.

No they aren't. It is about "theoligical implications". They were not able to elaborate though.

I think they know exactly what they are doing. They have managed loads of free promotion for a religious sim in secondlife. I find it hard to believe the media or the regular joe will care much for furry rights. Most people think those that use sl are weird to begin with, regardless what kind of avatar you have. I would even go as far to say that the majority of people who do find out about this will support a religious sim protecting their asset against avatars non human. In fact even humans have a certain dress code themselves.

I for one could careless who is what. However I don't see the difference between this and lesbian sims saying women only. Maybe I want to check out a bunch of female avs getting it on together. It's their rule, so you live with it. They got exactly what they wanted. A lot of buzz even if it's "negative", but I doubt the Vatican would see this as negative. That is really the only opinion the sim sponsors care about anyways.

Yup.

If they(the Jewish Temple or Islamic Mosque) were serious about their devotion to their religion, they would look upon all vistors with respect, and a chance to enlighten others as to their views.

Getting your *insert relgious regalia here* in a twist over a cartoon representation of a person's online character, and letting that angst get int he way of practicing what you preach, is what moves into the "stupid" catagory for me.

If they can't get over that aspect, then 1) I think they are in the wrong place and need to go back to RL instead of SL and 2) I think they should give up their religion as the ovbously can't follow their own teachings anyway.

~jessy

That's because it is a construction site. Once the built will be finished it will be open all the time.

ridiculous.

will go there as soon as they reopen it and get my ban and say ty.

(i am not a furry, but i like freedom (thats the counterpart to religion)

How they are dressed is of littkle importance compared to how they behave. A moron in a 3 piece suit is still a moron. Or a politician.

Tautology. =^.^=

/me wonders how my 6ixth Demon av would go down with them, I'm a good demon honest.

Genuine outrage over something like this is misguided. There are plenty of tragic RL situations for which outrage is the only appropriate response, compared to which this all is of no consequence.

But it is perfectly fitting to make plain how utterly clueless these rules make the sponsors appear. That they have set themselves up as such prime targets of mockery is hardly the fault of those who mock them.

But it's just a chance to lob hate at religion again, why would certain people among us want to miss the chance to do that?!

But the fact they do so is.

Chebi mosque was empty but there were avatars at the Ir Shalom sim so I went there and asked them right away...

(Quotes and names are used with permission)

[16:18] You: hello
...
[16:18] J.: salutations
[16:18] You: can i ask u a quick question
...
[16:18] You: lets see if i want to go to the temple here, would it be OK if i stay a pink lynx?
[16:19] Carter Giacobini: LMAO
[16:19] Carter Giacobini: sure!!!
[16:19] Carter Giacobini: just don't leave hair on the benches
...
[16:19] You: there is a big scandal going on about the cathedral of cologne
[16:19] You: the ban and kick furries
[16:19] Carter Giacobini: OMG
[16:19] Carter Giacobini: really?
[16:19] J.: why?
[16:20] You: so i wanted to know about jewish sites )
[16:20] You: they say furries desecrate the place
[16:20] Carter Giacobini: that's very christian
...
[16:21] You: but tell me.. if i put a pig avatar....
...
[16:21] Carter Giacobini: LMAO!!!
[16:21] Carter Giacobini: well, you're acutally safer
[16:21] Carter Giacobini: because we won't use u for food
[16:21] Carter Giacobini: lol
[16:21] Carter Giacobini: lol
[16:21] You: LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
...
[16:22] Carter Giacobini: let me just explain the thoughts behind allowing furries at the temple
[16:22] You: ok i m listeing
[16:22] Carter Giacobini: the reason we don't care is because these are simply digital representations of ourselves, right?
[16:23] You: Yes
[16:23] You: indeed
[16:23] Carter Giacobini: so, it's not like we're actually dressing like a lynx and going to temple
[16:23] Carter Giacobini: this is who we are in here
[16:23] You: exaclty
[16:23] Carter Giacobini: and this is how we feel most comfortable HERE
[16:23] You: can i quote you in the forum? without names od course
[16:23] Carter Giacobini: feel free to use my name, i stand behind what i say
...
[16:26] L.: true christians wouldn't treat you that way
[16:26] Carter Giacobini: i'm sorry there's such conflict
[16:26] L.: they are not accuately representing Christ
[16:26] Carter Giacobini: and L. is christian, btw, so she would know that better than i would!
...
[16:27] You: of course dress code has to be followed i guess?
[16:27] You: no bikini in the temple?
[16:27] You:
[16:27] L.: not really .. it's come as you are
[16:27] Carter Giacobini: well, nothing naked... but if you came as a well dressed furry, that would be fine
[16:28] Carter Giacobini: but your avatar form doesn't matter
[16:28] Carter Giacobini: it's like putting a weight restriction or height restriction at a temple or church
[16:28] Carter Giacobini: that's your avatar


Sounds like a very laid back and truly SL-ish attitude. I will definetily go back there and visit them again, as a pink lynx of course, because this is me. Oh well church guys, you got to learn to behave SL style before you put up such an impressive church.

Brilliant, Brenda. Thank you.

I think much of the anger here expresses a widely felt outrage against arbitrary prejudice, discrimination and bigotry. It is right to feel outrage against those things. We have survived a century when those things have caused the cruel and unforgiveably evil deaths of MANY tens of millions of otherwise innocent people, some in the name of religion, many many more in the names of avowedly antireligious ideologies not limited by the Christian admonition of: Love one another.

I suspect the impulse behind these restrictions is different. I do not get the feeling of vicious bigotry from what I see here. I suspect that what is needed here is communication and education of the people this brilliant evocation of the Cologne cathedral is for.

Look, original, true Christianity was meant for all human beings, whether they were Middle Easrtern, Western, or whatever. If the builders of this cathedral are serious about their beliefs, they will be approachable on the level of saying, this is what the community is here, approach it as it is.

And Yes, Your Land, Your Rules. If you really don't like it, don't go there. I won't blame you either. But I think SL is better served by bringing the very large and very sincere religious community (I don't mean religion's Pharisees, I mean seriously spiritual people) into SL to bring another point of view.

I think there are a lot of problems with the rules for entering this particular build's rules in dealing with that, and I hope the people behind it can resolve those problems, because I think it will be better for everybody in SL if they do.

I was gonna say You can't polish a turd, but you get the sentiment.

To borrow (and twist) a fark cliche, I'm a Christian fur so I'm really not getting a kick out of this thread.

hehe its okay basically i took that to mean that it would cause a stir in the vatican (catholic church heirarchy in real world) and with germany the country. In any event in reading this thread I would throw out one word of caution as i have no idea beyond what i read in this thread about cathedrals except my friend brought me to one when I was a kid in seeing the way people are saying that their argument is that its costume and then the argument presented that we are all technically in costume. If this required permission of some real world heirarchy in order to build it the most logical thing is that they would agree that its all costume and disrespectful in general and request that the build be removed.

I'm thinking that they are just trying to keep the place sane and furies are the largest non conventional group although better wording would be non human avatars even gorean sims say "furries" specificallly and I consider the robots and boxes and lord knows what that I ahve seen around in this furry classification. Anyhow going the argument of that its all costume which technically is true they would logically remove the thing. I think that in some cases I am required to wear a furry avatar to attend some kinds of classes or functions even and if i can respect that rule and take off my usual avatar furries can respect the catholic church rule and put on a human avatar for a brief period of time.

I used to take classes in some now long dead place due to attrition on making dragon avatars they required we not dress as human and that we be a furry (although not necessarily a dragon) > i wanted to take the class so i put on the avatar I had even though I felt awkward trying to create that way due to the fact that I was used to a different perspective I respected their wishes because it was their class and their time. I think that furries can respect the wishes of these cathedral owners if they wish to take a tour there just like I respect the wishes of various sim owners who require me to look a certain way in order to fit into the sim. This all goes down to roleplay and well in my mind i see no harm in termporarily morphing other then for some reason you feel trampled on. If this was so I guess I should protest when asked to put on a furry avatar next time when and if such classes on building furry type avatars are held again

just my perspective but i think this none of this is needed.