Age verification enters Grid-wide beta

Except that there's a direct RL correlation to the gambling ban in terms of gambling laws and compliency (come be bored by me inworld sometime, since we might well bump into each other anyway )

I know .

But people were arguing back and forth for forever on whether a sploder (or this or that) would fit the rules or not, then someone posts that their sploder was just removed and everyone had their answer.

If we don't see "A Linden just flagged my parcel for having a tonguekiss pose on it!" we'll know it's allowed .

& will do once I get in-world!

I don't know if you are in the US or not. In any case, this may help explain to you our skittishness with dealing with Aristotle. The last two general elections here have been fraught with voter intimidation and outright fraud. It has surfaced that in Ohio, Election Commissioner Blackwell (R - what else) sent out letters to Democrats in poor neighborhoods. Letters were designed to look like junkmail. Any time they returned undeliverable, that person was subject to new scrutiny at the polls. Thus, poor democratic voters were subject to a hassle that people in other districts were not subject to. My point is, Dirty Republicans want your name and address. Simple as that.

/me hands Adz a tinfoil hat.

How about this scenario? 14 y/o kid goes into mommy's purse and get drivers license number and SSN (because Mommy's too dumb to realize that card should be in a safe and not in her purse). Kid verifies in SL with Mommy's information. Kid emails all of his friends Mommy's personal information so they can use it to get verified in SL too. Kid's friends email Mommy's personal info to their friends. Kid's friends' friends are involved in an identity theft chain and sell Mommy's personal info to the highest bidder. 26 illegal immigrants start using Mommy's SSN to get jobs, and 12 people apply for credit cards using Mommy's identification. Mommy has a big mess to clean up, and has no idea that her identity got stolen because her kid wanted to access pixel porn in SL.

/me dons the hat, and points to his source, several episodes of PBS's "NOW".

So do Dirty Democrats. Don't kid yourself.

Theres your problem. The people at PBS require the Democrats to be in power so the money keeps flowing their way. Keeping their wine and cheese cupboards full and ensuring they don't have to get real jobs and can keep looking down their noses at those who have to work for a living.

LOL!

I haven't seen this posted yet:
http://integrity.aristotle.com/content/view/113/145/

The flash map at the bottom lets you browse the "required" and "suggested" or "not required" information for most countries.

That was posted by Travis in one the Canadian threads I think.

I tested this against the LL verification form with seven different countries.

With every one of those, the LL form demanded more information than was "required" information on that map.

Mommy's fault for being so dumb to begin with.

**Edit**

We cannot always be responsible for someone else's stupidity. People have to take responsibility for their own actions - or lack thereof.

I guess I was different as a kid. Sure I knew where Dad's billfold and Mom's purse were, but I would have never touched them. Maybe because I was taught, with Dad's leather belt, that if it isn't mine, I don't touch it.

Exactly - If the kids are raised with a proper respect for other people's items and a solid knowledge of right & wrong and the consequences of one's actions, there is no issue.

I didn't get hit, but I was taught right from wrong and also respect for other people and their property. I'd never have dreamed of nicking stuff from my parents let alone trying a dodge like stealing their identity.

When kids manage to get onto our site, our advice *IS* to take the matter to the Police. Less that we want them to do that, more to make them think ...

Would you believe that my place doesn't even have that? A tongue kiss?

Well ... maybe there's one of them on the bed but that's locked down VERY tight

All comes back down to Congress really doesn't it? I'm in England (points left) but there's not a country on the planet where ANY politics are fair ...

Fraud? Intimidation? Yeah that wouldn't surprise me anywhere. Aristotle having a clue ... that would. It perhaps says something that it is the poorest people whom Aristotle have the most information on ...

This system is horribly flawed. Even if you're a huge supporter of age verification, this system fails on so many levels. Asking for information that Integrity do not have access to is extremely dubious.



The LL system is asking for more information than Aristotle's website says is required. This is why so many people are failing to get verified, Aristotle do not have the passport or driving licence numbers of people in 152 countries around the world. Aristotle put this information into the suggested category, which is probably only used when someone can't be verified with their name, address and date of birth from public records.

A non physical check of these documents would not in any way, shape or form be considered identity verification. You're not going to get into a bar when a bouncer asks for ID by quoting your driving licence number or the last four digits of your SSN.

One day there may be a system in place that aids this sort of verification, I'm all for it, but at the moment the best form of verification is via credit card and as Aristotle can check public records to see if a person is over 18, then combined with credit card verifcation you'd have a much better system and one that didn't ask for details that Integrity have no access to.

Titled: how an arrogant redneck was born.

This is one of the things that rings huge alarm bells.

The whole point of entering any information should be so that Integrity can verify it against their existing records.
If Integrity can't have particular information then they can't possibly verify what is entered.

So why are they asking for data that they can't possible verify????


Lookit
For the benefit of all those Americans posting the likes of "What's the prob with all this privacy dude? They already have all that information!"
They don't!

Even my own insurance company does not know my driver's licence number.
They had to write to me offering a discount if I gave it to them.
What are the chances that Integrity know my license number (if I don't give it to them on that Verification form) ?? Yup! Absolute Zero.


Integrity "claim" that they can verify my identity against a driving licence number?????
Did they indicate to LL that they could do so?
Isn't that fraudulent?

Ditto for any national ID number here.


There's a very simple explanation for Robin Linden's "Unfortunately, we are seeing a high failure rate for Internationally based customers using the age verification system. The failure rate is much higher than we saw in previous testing, and clearly is unacceptable."
Outside of the USA (Internationally based) Integrity's data is piss-poor in scope as compared with the USA. What they have are probably limited coverage of names and addresses, and according to some posters, years out of date.

The verification process will
1) Give Integrity better up-to-date data and some key data that they could not possibly obtain any other way
2) Give Integrity a foot in the door for more sales of their services



What about all this "Oh we're only going to data-vault it. We won't look at it. We won't use it" ???
Their existing database has been proven by the tests to date to be inadequate and out of date. This is a major commercial problem for them.
The verification process will place in their control a database that is up to date, accurate and more complete.


=======
Now Puss. We know you're thirsty, but we're going to leave the room now, and you know that you're not supposed to go anywhere near that bowl of cream. Yes?
-----
Pussy we're ho-ome!!
-----
What's this. Cream on the floor??
- Oh. You were chasing a mouse, and the mouse ran into the cream? Just an accident??
But Puss, there's little drops of cream on your mouth!
- Oh. You ate the mouse. The one that ran into the cream. eh OK!
=======

Given the fact that "phone number" seems to be *required* for most countries other than the US, I think what they did was just buy a copy of each country's phone book and dump those listings into their database.

I really doubt they even have a birthday on file for most of us, it's probably just a different way of checking a box that says "Yes, I'm over 18".

I can only hazard a guess that some people have provided this information to other companies who sell it on, although I would imagine this would be against data protection laws to be honest, but maybe if people volunteer this information you waive your right to data protection laws. I know that if I give my information to a company outside Europe then I'm not protected by European data protection laws, which makes sense as I volunteered the information.



Well it would be helpful if LL could elicit an official statement from Integrity on the issue of what they will do with the data. I'm yet to see a blog statement from LL quoting Integrity and I still don't know what's in this for Integrity, but the two points you raise, that would be great for Integrity.

If they could collect the information they currently can't officially gain access to, it certainly would put them in a poweful position in their market.

In Ireland, one can't buy a digitised copy of the phone book. Phone number was not one of the options presented to me. However they did present *required* ID options that would be 'more impossible' than phone number.

If they did populate their database via the phone books, then we probably would not be seeing reports of people having to go back a number of addresses

If they didn't have a date of birth before the verification, they would have one afterwards.
Actual age is a very valuable marketing indicator.
But then - they won't ever use it. They will just lock it away.




This exercise is perhaps the first test of their database done in the light of day. The test indicates to the world that the database sucks. They must be getting worried.
According to Robin's blog, LL "are working with Aristotle/Integrity to identify the causes of these failures. By reviewing your feedback, and running some system diagnostics, we expect to identify some early trends in the next 24 hours. We will report back to you what we’ve learned and how to correct them."

I'll lay a large bet that right now they have a team working on how to spin/suppress the bad news.

One way of 'fixing it' quickly would be for their system to blindly verify a much higher percentage of inputs.
That would work.
Nobody can see or check the data. The thing is just an insurance scheme. It has nothing to do with actual verification of age or identity. Their actuaries can just build the extra uncertainty into their models to see how it might affect the bottom line.

If the verification suddenly gets 'fixed', I'd advise people who feel coerced into verifying to try using garbage. It would probably work.

The Integrity map of what's "required" and what's "suggested" is at this link:



Just click on your region on the map and then hover the mouse over your country for the information.

In the UK and Ireland required is: first name, last name, post code, date of birth.

Suggested: passport number, driving licence number, phone number.

Now in concierge beta, the above required information did indeed verify you. However LL have probably talked to Integrity and pointed out that only requiring the above information is a little bit easy to defraud.

Integrity probably supply local ID verification generally, this may involve companies posting letters or phoning those who apply for verification which adds an extra layer of security. For example if Integrity were a third party in the UK offering their service to UK banks, I have to physically visit the bank with my documents. I also get a letter posted to me.

LL are offering a worldwide solution, have Integrity ever offered a worldwide solution through one provider before? LL aren't in a position to send a letter to everyone or have offices all around the world where people can physically present their documents, this is a whole new scenario for this system. We're not only beta testing for LL, we're beta testing for Integrity.

Now as the suggested information is now mandatory through LL verification, I'd say that Integrity simply do not have this info, hence why so many verifications are failing.

While accessing this thread, Integrity/Aristotle tried to set a cookie and asked my permission. Maybe someone else has mentioned this already (although I've been following this thread from the beginning, I could have missed this). I just find it ironic...