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Compensation for Owners of PG Land

Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
04-24-2009 17:58
From: Sling Trebuchet
Dolcette = Dining


I'd have had a much more predictable experience if I'd never found out what that meant, indeed I would have if it wasn't for this stupid fecking policy!
Argos Hawks
Eclectically Esoteric
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,037
04-24-2009 17:59
From: Tabliopa Underwood
Like in "Fcuk yourself and your sub silly with our hawt new BDSM HUD" ??? Is an accurate, descriptive and to the point advertisement.

Fcuk is permitted speech (content) on M-rated land. So is BDSM. I dont think Fcuk is going to be permitted in M-rated advertising in any context. If it isnt then two different standards are being applied here, one for land and one for advertising. And if so then Mr Jack Linden as Mainland Estate Manager should recognise this when people apply to move. Hope so anyways.

FCUK is a trademark of French Connection UK, but the trademark may not apply to what you're selling.
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Brenda Connolly
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04-24-2009 17:59
From: Ciaran Laval
I'd have had a much more predictable experience if I'd never found out what that meant, indeed I would have it wasn't for this stupid fecking policy!


*hands you a brown bag.
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
04-24-2009 18:07
From: Brenda Connolly
*hands you a brown bag.


1 user laughed 1 user said thanks
Sling Trebuchet
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04-24-2009 18:35
From: Ciaran Laval
1 user laughed 1 user said thanks


Hmmm
You haven't looked in the bag yet?
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Hypatia Callisto
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Join date: 8 Feb 2006
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04-24-2009 19:54
From: Chris Norse
The Libertarian party isn't very libertarian any more. The nomination of Bob Barr led to quite an outcry of selling out. And ads are neither force nor fraud unless they make false claims about a product.


agreed... Whatever the Libertarian Party has morphed into, it sure doesn't represent what it is I believe in.
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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04-24-2009 19:59
Folks can use code words for the ads, and third party clients can translate the code automatically. Add the translation function to the RLV.
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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04-24-2009 20:25
I guess the Knowledge Base should be renamed Disinformation Base. Perhaps it could be merged with the Encyclopedia Dramatica.
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Gordon Wendt
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Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1,024
04-24-2009 20:54
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
I guess the Knowledge Base should be renamed Disinformation Base. Perhaps it could be merged with the Encyclopedia Dramatica.


Disintegrated base is probably more accurate. I don't think there's actual a purposeful deception going on when it comes to the KB articles but since unlike a wiki it has no way to view the history of a particular article and the structure of related articles on a topic and many times the point within a single article are confusing and convoluted at best without someone breaking apart each set of topics, relinking articles to be relevant to each other on a topic and rewriting a ton of articles it's going to stay a mess. I'll give 1000 to 0 odds on LL ever doing that, a bet of 0 dollars will yield 1000 dollars if they ever do it.... oh wait can't do that, gambling's illegal now.
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Baloo Uriza
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Join date: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 895
04-24-2009 22:18
From: Alexander Harbrough
I meant.. how often do women (a) try to go topless in those establishments and (b) try to fight it when they are tossed out by a life guard.


From what I've seen, (a) Not often, and (b) pretty much always, even if they had no reasonable expectation that it was an acceptable thing to do there.
Baloo Uriza
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Join date: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 895
04-24-2009 22:23
From: Alexander Harbrough
Although the bill of rights (or charter here in Canada) is a separate document, isn't it considered constitutional law, or at least thought of as such? My understanding of the concept of constitutions is that they embody the 'deeper principles' of a nation that are considered sufficiently strong, they are protected and much harder to modify.


Yes, but what I'm saying is you give the US constitution credit, where credit is not due. Antidiscrimination law isn't a part of our constitution unless you're going to count women's sufferage. It's not something we've been able to get a two thirds majority and a constitutional convention to protect.

From: someone
If you are arguing against a particular regulation on the grounds that 'government meddling' generally is bad, don't you have to be consistant and apply the same attitude to all regulation?


I'm not sure it's quite safe to equate constitutional law with an unpopular business decision.
Baloo Uriza
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04-24-2009 22:28
From: Hypatia Callisto
agreed... Whatever the Libertarian Party has morphed into, it sure doesn't represent what it is I believe in.


I'm not sure liberarian politics survived the transformation into a cohesive political party. At least here in Oregon, Libertarians seem to have a "Do anything you want, don't pay taxes, and don't expect basic needs of society like education and healthcare to be met while we're in charge, either." Yeah, no thanks. If I wanted to live in that kind of nightmare world, I'd move to Mexico.
Baloo Uriza
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Join date: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 895
04-24-2009 22:32
From: Imnotgoing Sideways
From what I see... The "PG" examples given so far are grandfathered content from a time long past. Please give me some PG (Not PG-13, that's a different rating) examples from this generation. (=_=)


I'm pretty sure Airplane was resubmitted for rating prior to it's rerelease on VHS, and got a PG again for brief nudity and "questionable situations for children."
Hypatia Callisto
metadea
Join date: 8 Feb 2006
Posts: 793
04-24-2009 22:37
From: Baloo Uriza
I'm not sure liberarian politics survived the transformation into a cohesive political party. At least here in Oregon, Libertarians seem to have a "Do anything you want, don't pay taxes, and don't expect basic needs of society like education and healthcare to be met while we're in charge, either." Yeah, no thanks. If I wanted to live in that kind of nightmare world, I'd move to Mexico.


I am an old-fashioned liberal libertarian sort. with a healthy mixing of a socialist teleology and a liberal methodology :P

to say it in general english, I believe in freedom, but not absolute freedom. But I believe in average people having as much power as possible to make choices over issues that affect their lives. I distrust heavy-handed centralised social planning. Bureaucrats amply demonstrate time and time again, that they don't know as much as they think they know.

So yea. I believe in education - but having choice over education. I believe in healthcare, but having choice over healthcare, and I understand that taxes are necessary, but I believe in taxes being spent in a transparent accountable manner, with as much control to the taxpayer as possible where that money goes.

does that make sense :)
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Baloo Uriza
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04-24-2009 22:45
From: Hypatia Callisto
So yea. I believe in education - but having choice over education. I believe in healthcare, but having choice over healthcare, and I understand that taxes are necessary, but I believe in taxes being spent in a transparent accountable manner, with as much control to the taxpayer as possible where that money goes.


Even in socialist Sweden, there's nothing stopping folks from picking their own doctor (or even one in a private practice instead of the government health system). There's nothing from stopping you from sending your kids to private school or a private university. As far as accountability, there's nothing stopping you from going to your state capitol and sitting in on legislative sessions, or visiting with your congressperson and expressing your concerns (Protip: If you're in Oregon, consider spending time at Magoo's Bar when congress is in session. It's within a drunken stumbling distance of the capitol building's legislative entrance and popular among the lawmakers, and most of 'em are entirely different people in person than on camera).
Hypatia Callisto
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Join date: 8 Feb 2006
Posts: 793
04-24-2009 22:48
From: Baloo Uriza
Even in socialist Sweden, there's nothing stopping folks from picking their own doctor (or even one in a private practice instead of the government health system). There's nothing from stopping you from sending your kids to private school or a private university. As far as accountability, there's nothing stopping you from going to your state capitol and sitting in on legislative sessions, or visiting with your congressperson and expressing your concerns (Protip: If you're in Oregon, consider spending time at Magoo's Bar when congress is in session. It's within a drunken stumbling distance of the capitol building's legislative entrance and popular among the lawmakers, and most of 'em are entirely different people in person than on camera).


I'm just a bit south of Sweden... and yeah, private healthcare gives you more choices at least in Germany than the government plans.

But lately it has gotten much harder to choose your healthcare, it is much harder to choose private plans now, they are forcing people back into substandard national healthcare who do not want to have it and can pay for private.

To me, this is not right.
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Xplorer Cannoli
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Join date: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,131
04-24-2009 22:51
From: Baloo Uriza
Even in socialist Sweden, there's nothing stopping folks from picking their own doctor (or even one in a private practice instead of the government health system). There's nothing from stopping you from sending your kids to private school or a private university.



Yea, I just love my choices. Government run, or Government mandated.

Sign me up.
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Matthew Dowd
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Join date: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,046
04-25-2009 01:08
From: Carl Metropolitan

In other words, Linden Lab PG mainland is now restricted to content equivalent to that of a G-rated movie. This was not what PG land was sold as. LL's new "PG is G" definitions serve to significantly reduce the value of PG land.


As I've just posted over on the giant Adult Content thread. LL's PG rating is actually more restrictive that the MPAA G rating.

From: Matthew Dowd

The current PG definition indicates that it is similar to the MPAA definitions. However the new one explicitly bans alcohol, smoking and drug abuse. However, compare this to studies of G-rated movies. The following link is to a somewhat dated study but is still interesting and valid

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/afilm.html

47% of films they randomly selected from 1937 and 2000 included alcohol, with Dumbo, Sleeping Beauty and Fantasia in the top five.

43% of films they randomly selected included smoking with 101 Dalmations and Alice in Wonderland in the top five.

An Alice in Wonderland themed sim would be an interesting case study, with the smoking caterpillar, symbolism of the potion and the mushroom, the violent duchess and queen, etc. it would not meet the stringent PG restriction of not including "any content that is suggestive of any (even mildly) sexual or violent themes, or references to social drug or alcohol usage." so again under LL's definitions Alice in Wonderland would automatically be "mature".



Matthew
Alexander Harbrough
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Join date: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 601
04-25-2009 01:34
From: Baloo Uriza
Yes, but what I'm saying is you give the US constitution credit, where credit is not due. Antidiscrimination law isn't a part of our constitution unless you're going to count women's sufferage. It's not something we've been able to get a two thirds majority and a constitutional convention to protect.


So I gather..

From: someone
I'm not sure it's quite safe to equate constitutional law with an unpopular business decision.


I was responding to the sentiments expressed by some equating LL meddling with SL businesses with government meddling. It is fair game to complain that it is a bad business decision on the part of LL, but if someone tries to say that it is unlreasonable that LL restrict businesses in SL at all, then those so advoating should be applying principle has to be applied across the board, even to rules that benefit them.
Bith Wierwight
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Join date: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 236
04-25-2009 01:41
@ Matthew -- this was posted earlier today on that thread, and was reposted by Argent on this one:

From: Blondin Linden
Hey All,

There has been a tremendous outcry about the PG definitions and how it appears in the KB article that they will be affected in all of this as well. This was never the case and I apologize for the team that it came across this way.

I just want to say that there will be NO changes to the old definition of PG. We'll revisit this document internally and make the corrections.
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Matthew Dowd
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Join date: 30 Jan 2007
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04-25-2009 01:57
From: Bith Wierwight
@ Matthew -- this was posted earlier today on that thread, and was reposted by Argent on this one:


Mmmm, they withdraw the original draft definitions when they first announced this new policy because they'd redefined PG to be so restricted that Mature effectively became the new PG. They quickly withdraw those initial definitions on the basis that this was unintentional and to avoid confusion.

You might have thought therefore that LL may have taken that in consideration before they released the updated definitions. Instead the new definitions *added* the additional explicit banning of alcohol and smoking.

I did ask Blondin, to give examples of something that would neither be Adult or PG (i.e. activities which mature land would be the ideal candidate for). All of his examples, with the exception of a nudist beach, were activities currently permitted on PG land under the current definitions (e.g. a bar serving alcohol).

Matthew
Argent Stonecutter
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04-25-2009 08:33
From: Matthew Dowd

You might have thought therefore that LL may have taken that in consideration before they released the updated definitions.
There you go again with that crazy talk!
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Alexander Harbrough
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Join date: 22 Feb 2009
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04-25-2009 08:50
From: Hypatia Callisto
I'm just a bit south of Sweden... and yeah, private healthcare gives you more choices at least in Germany than the government plans.

But lately it has gotten much harder to choose your healthcare, it is much harder to choose private plans now, they are forcing people back into substandard national healthcare who do not want to have it and can pay for private.

To me, this is not right.


That problem is here in Canada too.. underfunding means fewer doctors and it gets harder and harder to find a doctor who is accepting new patients.

It does not help that doctors often seem to think of their pay options at least as much as the patients they treat, but not sure much can be done about that.

A wee bit off topic though :)
Talarus Luan
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Join date: 18 Mar 2006
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04-25-2009 10:12
From: Chris Norse
The Libertarian party isn't very libertarian any more. The nomination of Bob Barr led to quite an outcry of selling out. And ads are neither force nor fraud unless they make false claims about a product.


Ferrous Cranus much? :rolleyes:

It's also neither force nor fraud to run a landfill, unless you put one in a neighborhood, with the intention to EXTORT the neighbors. THEN it becomes "force or fraud".

The adfarming issue had little to do with "legitimate advertising".

Even still, advertising was not banned by LL with the policy. Abusive use of advertising to extort and harass people was.
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