Visual effect of banlines on neighbours - a demonstration you can visit inworld (?)

Okies!
I set up a demo plot so that people can see what happens to the owner of a small lot when neighbours have ban lines.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/glamaig/179/36/21/

I have a 1024 plot with banning neighbours on two boundaries. I split the plot into two 512s and put ban lines on one of them. The 512 in the slurl above therefore has banlines on three boundaries.

I put out a Linden Atoll hut, which has alpha textures in the walls. This form of wall is common in low-prim builds, allowing the one prim to be textured as wall with windows.

Please. Go there and walk around.
Put yourself in the mind of someone who is starting out in SL and has just bought their first 512 plot.
See how one can only escape the ban lines by standing in the middle of the plot.
See how the ban lines intrude through the walls.



Yeah, yeah - alpha sort 'feature'. I know - but that 'feature' isn't going to go away any time soon.
In any case, once you go outside the hut and move around the 'grounds' you see them in al their glory.

Question for Residents:
How do you like those lines?




Just for horse feathers, I put an alpha texture on the unimaginative 'land', just as an incidental demo of alpha-sort in general.


Nov 3rd '07:-

It seems that the Thread Title and explanation above were either not clear enough or not read by people before they visited the demo plot.
I've stripped most of the prims out of the Linden Atoll hut, and made the ground 'solid'
Hopefully, this will allow people to view the plot purely as demonstration of ban-line visibility and not as representing my architectural taste

Please note that there is no dispute of any kind going on with the two neighbours. I've never seen them. They probably just set up the banlines as it is a quick and easy way of ensuring privacy. They may even be unaware/have_forgtten that the ban lines are in place, since the lines won't be visible to them at any time.
I simply noted that this particular plot already had neighbours with ban lines, and I am using it as a demo site.



Please note also that the banning facility and the visibility of ban lines are not inseparable.
If someone MUST have their land banned to others, then with cooperation from Linden Lab developers, that does not have to mean that their neighbours have to be subjected to the completely unacceptable visual grief demonstrated on the plot.

Question for you:

Will you have that set up like that for a while? I am taking my kid trick-or-treating after work, so I won't be on til 6:30pm SLT tonight. I definitely want to take a look though.

I'll leave it like that for a week or so. I'm working on other projects on other land.


Stop press!!!!

HOLY CRAP!!!
I didn't think it would be THIS BAD!!

The lines on the Northern and Eastern boundaries begin to show at a distance of 14 metres !!!!
This seems to be due to the fact that there is empty space behind them.
I've put down rules so you can check the distances.

Sweet holy gawd!!! It's impossible!!!!


Please. Anyone who has not seen the effect of ban-lines on neighbours, go visit and drink it all in.

I haven't seen your plot but one of my tenants had a problem with banlines and had to put up a feature of a landscape to block them.

Sling is right, we need to make banlines totally invisible.

Or at least give people the option of making them invisible - because travellers and fliers in vehicles do want to be able to see them coming.

I think everyone agrees they are ugly. The problem is retaining the - needed - function of the things while losing the ugliness.

Making them invisible--well, ok. If anyone messes with our hard-fought-for banning, etc. abilities...that's another matter. Second Life was one vast stew of nasty griefing. It bubbled here and there according to where avatars were gathered.

Ban lines, visible or not, keep out a vast quantity (in my home, 5 per hour) of wandering noobs. Whenever I'm working, talking in IM, or dressing myself, I have no desire whatsoever to be polite to someone who is an hour old and does not know that despite being able to walk into my house, that he should not.

I am also a Second Life balloonist and I believe that not being able to see ban lines, should I chance too close to ground, leaves me no opportunity to stop, to rise up and over them.

All my neighbors are on my access list as are my friends. Ban lines are impolite, certainly, but they should not be eliminated. It might be good if ban lines were handled as beacons are now: view them or not, your choice through your client. I certainly would support that.

In ${SLDIR}/app_settings/viewerart.ini is the line:

noentrylines.tga 5d3e196b-fd4d-ada7-e4c1-99f8e9f1cfbf

I don't know what would be a good texture UUID to replace that with.

Replace it with a 100% invisable texture

As many have stated, MOST neighbors are on good terms, and can add you to the access list so you don't hit, nor see, the ban lines. However, buttheads do exist, and you can always do something to tick off a neighbor without even trying. Though ASKING them would be a good first step, heh.

On a side note, does anyone know if there is an option on the Debug Settings to turn down the distance resolution on the ban lines (or to turn it up)? I kow you can for floating text, so why not ban lines? Is it there and jsut no one has thought to look?

~Jessy

I nipped over and took a look. It's pretty bad, but then so is a lot of the building going on around the plot. A real shame given the location.

It's true that the builds around the plot might not be inspiring, but hey! That's SL for most people I think.

What differentiates ban lines from ugly builds and spinning ad farms is that the ban lies appear to actually come into the plot - like 14 metres inside the plot in the case of the North and East boundaries - and right through the walls. They are truly invasive. They are not ugliness some metres beyond your boundaries. They are ugliness that comes into you land.

Again, I appeal to people who have not witnessed the absolute awfulness of the things to go to the plot and experience it. I can guarantee that you will have not had the slightest idea that they could be so intrusive.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/glamaig/179/36/21/



A plot owner could indeed contact the neighbours and politely ask to be added to their access list. They might even agree.
But what of your friends and visitors? What if you had a small retail operation selling your creations? You won't see the lines but everyone else will.
The only way to survive at ground level on plots bordered by ban lines is to build a solid non-alpha wall against those boundaries.

I'll have to do it on that plot. I'll do it as tastefully as possible, but it's a crime.

Somewhat unrelated, but if someone could either convince Nicholaz to create a patch for it (or someone else writes it and he adopts it) it would give everyone something "live" to play around with to see if they like it or make suggestions once it's actually there.

I think LL might be hesitant to come anywhere near the "banline" mess (they already changed things not so long ago), but if the patch is there already anyway and people are using and happy with changes on a third-party client it might make a difference in getting it accepted into the main viewer, and/or gather more votes.

That's alpha sorting though, not anything to do with the "banlines" specifically. My neighbour had those alpha landscape prims around the border of their parcel until I asked if they could make them transparent on my end because it was creating the exact same effect.

Yes, but the reality is that what you see on that plot is what's going to continue for the vast majority of users until some menu option is provided to control the visibility of the ban and pay textures.
The alpha sort issues isn't going to go away anytime soon, so LL has to work with the effects of it.
If I were a new user and suddenly had that effect coming into my land and house, I'd be totally distraught. Between that and lag, I'd be out of SL chop-chop and warning all and sundry not to bother going anywhere near SL.

i think if you put up ban lines, they should be visible from BOTH sides. you put them up, you gotta look at them too.

I don't think they're particularly useful when you're in a vehicle. You're usually going too fast to avoid them by the time you notice them - even if you're travelling at relatively low speeds.

It would make far more sense to remove banlines but keep the guest/ban list working (ie. the protected boundary is invisible), and delineate the banned areas on the minimap instead. That would give vehicles far more warning and actually make them easier to navigate across a mainland scattered with banned parcels.

In the right context ban lines are ok, but I know one place where a block of blank land only used for prims to a store in the sim has ban lines.

Oh, Please! Stop with the hysteria already!!!

Don't you people get tired of constant bitching and whining about ban lines and everything else?
For the most part the same people who constantly complain about ban lines are the same ones who intrude unto other peoples land and homes. The same ones who you will find inside homes of total strangers using their beds and poses without permission and without invitation. The same ones you kick out and return the following day or the minute they can get back after being ejected.

You see so many invalid dumb excuses such as they bring property value down or they log you out if you run into them. Cut the BS already, it's gotten very tiresome and they've already closed threads such as this one. Yet, here we go again.

Ban lines are there for a reason so get over it already!!! Stay out of peoples property and you won't have any problem with the cold scary ban lines taking a bite out of you.

I take it we can't count on your vote, then.

do these ones not affect females then?

Banning everyone is lame, I can understand under certain situation to ban individual griefers but seriously... ya'll are like Goldilocks and the 3 Bears! "Who's been sitting in my chair?!?" "Who's been eating my porridge?!?" LOL

Take down your bans! You do not have to be scared of someone sitting in your prim chair and sleeping in your prim bed! Everyone can FREE CAM and watch your animations all day long anyways, get a clue! I for one think it would be nice to actually walk and fly around without being stopped by these force walls for once!

Oh, Please! Stop with the off-topic rant posting already!!!
This thread is about "Visual effect of banlines on neighbours - a demonstration you can visit inworld"
http://slurl.com/secondlife/glamaig/179/36/21/
Go see. It's absolutely horrendous.



Don't "you people" get tired of constant bitching and whining about what other people post in the forums?


For the most part (74.382% of cases) the same people who constantly complain about anything that I don't want to complain about are serial killers and child-molesters.





The thread topic is:-
"Visual effect of banlines on neighbours .."

Your posting is:-
An inflammatory off-topic rant posting of the type that gets threads closed. Very tiresome!



I set up that plot to illustrate the fact that even if you never go outside *your own* property, those "cold scary banlines" of your neighbours will come at you and "take a bite out of you" and your visitors.
It's worse than just "a bite" actually. The effect is there constantly, griefing you *on your own property*, chewing incessantly at your soul.

I started this new thread with that particular topic.



Go have a look at the plot. Even if you are still all pumped up with your rant, you will see just how griefy they are to neighbours.
You won't be able to "Get over it already".

I like the idea of this. No idea how complicated it would be to implement, though: invisible ban lines looks trivial, showing the areas on the mini-map a bit trickier.

they should look lik gently falling raindrops.

Or leaves, or snow.

What I find very odd are banlines that say ".....'s place, everyone welcome" when you hit them.