retroengeneering and idea stealing

That's other users. If it aims to inspire creativity in users, that includes me, right?



The usual problem is that the classes are way outside my time zone - that's why I started running the event I do, to try and bring it into a time zone where more Euro users would be able to attend. Beyond that, most of the classes I've seen don't delve into the issues I need. They'll say how to build a waterfall, but they won't say the really interesting bit, which is how the instructor WORKED OUT that that was the way to build a waterfall.



Again, as I said, after being put on at a Linden show they disappeared. Nobody cared about them. Playing non-gambling games just isn't interesting to most SL users and certainly hosting them on their land isn't. And even if there are many games possible, that does not mean that their number is infinite.

Then you are reading a book about the wrong type of design. Almost everyone else uses a mixture of trial and error plus asking questions about thing you don't understand of people who are knowledgable. If you are unwilling to experiment then you are not allowing your ability to create things to come out. If you are for some reason unable to experiment then you must just be the only person I have ever heard of who cannot.
You learn as much from what does not work as you do from what does work.

you are responsible for your own inability to expand your own horizons and think outside the box. just because you are closed minded doesn't mean you can't be inspired. it means you refuse to be. i suspect you've had notions of creating things, but found the task too difficult and overwhelming and gave up. only you know for sure, and i'm sure you'll deny it. but still, i suspect you've had your moments.

If I had had the same experiences that others who reported being inspired by SL had had, and they hadn't worked for me, then I would be thinking in these terms, but I just haven't had them. (And most of the time when I give up it's because of frustrations with the user interface, which is definately SL's fault.)



The issue is that when I try to experiment I inevitably run into a situation where something looks wrong, but I have no idea why.

None of these are SL inherent problems.

One is your timezone, sure classes are out unless you do one on whilst you are on holiday, the christmas break would have been ideal. I am in GMT+12/+13 and I have attended classes before.

Another is that nothing can inspire *all* people and I don't think SL ever claimed it could, nothing can. There is no answer to not being inspired to create. That is an issue with you as clearly a lot of people are inspired.

finally just because people in SL do not tend to want to play games en masse does not signify a problem with SL. it signified that people come here for other reasons. Besides game playing is a big thing in SL just not the type you might be thinking of.

There is:

The mating game,
The "getting inside your head game"
The "I am more popular, beautiful, better in some other way than you game"
The drama creation and fueling game
Some people treat business as a game
Role-playing/combat games

Perhaps these are the reasons? The games are just different.

hon, you are contradicting yourself. experimenting with prims to create something IS creativity.

so even you have been inspired by SL to be creative.

(nod) However, it's partly SL's problem as it could allow record and replay of sessions in-world.

You take a lot of responsibility when you build a world. Choosing to include time is just another choice.



Again, if I had had the same experiences as others had and not been inspired by them, I would accept that, but I haven't had them.



Your claim was that the existance of multiple games showed that scripting isn't limited. If - as you now say - people just don't want to play games in SL then game scripts are not a useful, "better" alternative to use to stay in the market when competition is tight.

I have never been mentored and no one has taken me under their wing to show me how to build, script, run a business, do marketing, etc. I learned by trying and failing and trying again. I learned by examing the MASSIVE creativity in SL and trying to figure out how someone did something. I learned by pouring my energy into learning and figuring out what i was good at and then running with it.

Yumi if you put as much energy into trying and failing and learning as you do in arguing the points, you would be sooooo far ahead of where you are. You have set up a no win situation for yourself. You say in order for you to succeed, everyone else must do something FOR you. LL must change and provide diff things, someone must take you by the hand and show you how to build, everyone must disprove your arguments...With such a solid wall of negativity piled against any good stuff coming in, it is no wonder you are frustrated. SL is just like the real world...no one is going to spoon feed you...the resources you have are the resources you have.

Due to your positions expressed here I can say this with all certainty. You cant build. You cant do anything more with scripting than you have done. You wont be happy with anything anyone here says to you. No one can counter your arguments to your satisfaction. And, you will continue to be miserable unless you look inside yourself and make the necessary changes to make those things different. The magic is inside YOU and it always has been....that is why you cant find it anywhere else.

Wrong, the user interface can never be all things to all people. It fits the vast majority of people who use it and whilst it can be improved will never fit everyone's needs and stay flexible enough to cover the range of things it does.

I suspect the frustration you exhibit is more do to with yourself than the tools and recognising this might be good first step to changing it.

Then you give up instead of trying to understand why or asking someone who can tell you. More experimentation often shows why or you try to build it another way. This is how every new creative outlet is explored.

Right, but what did you see and experience in SL that made you decide to do these things? I'm guessing you wouldn't have done it if it had just been a blank screen. So what was on the screen inspired you..



Which is kind of silly when you admit that you discovered one of your marketing principles after someone sold you some land that was already divided into pieces.



And what are those changes? And remember, SL could cause me to make them!

I cannot even parse this paragraph - can you rephrase it please? Clearly having some games in SL proves that games are possible. Them being viable from a business opportunity point of view is a different matter and not a scripting limitation issue.
Besides *some* people do play games *some* of the time - just not as many to make a big "games industry" in SL. Though it might hard to recognise because a lot of effort goes into role-play items - that is still game participation. There may be other games that are not seen as part of the games industry as such.

The user interface lacks some fundamental features that are standard in 3D modelling packages. Just because people use it does not mean that they like it - and if they did like it, things like TextureAlign and Prim Docker wouldn't have been developed or attracted interest.



The problem is that I have no idea _how_ to continue experimentation, if I don't know what the current problem is. I mean, once I was building a house and it looked simply wrong and unnatural, and it took a long while before someone commented that the ground floor was too tall. I don't think I'd ever have thought of that.

For this thread it's relevant to the limits on scripting I was talking about: Jojogirl was claiming that "if you get competed against in business, just do something better". To be "better" in this context, it needs to be a viable business opportunity.

None of those things matter to your circumstances as you are not able to use what SL does provide. Believe me the majority of 3D modelling user interfaces are way harder and more complex to master than SL's user interface.
SL's interface and even the concept of prims is a dumbing down of 3D concepts to give more people the ability to use them.


You change things one piece at a time, trying different things and it will look better or worse.
Eventually you will get a feel for what works and what does not. There is no substitute for this process even if you learn design formally.

It is not the fault of SL if you do not know how to experiment. It is a personal issue and you need to try to change that if it is important to you to be able to do these things.

Yumi you are making me giggle...everything around me is inspiration! I see something move and i think, wow that's cool...wonder how they do that. I see a new type of texture or way of using one and i think...hmmm wonder where they got those textures...wonder if i could do something like that. I see a couch in a store and i look at the edit menu to see who made the pieces and scripts...then i look at their profiles and travel to their stores to find the sculpties used or the animations used. I look at textures on SLEX every single day to see what has been added since the day before.

This is constant. I dont turn around a have a huge aha moment. For instance...i went yesterday to a texture store i had not visited in awhile. I took the time to examine evertying they offer, spending about an hour there. I decided i liked a few things but to use them possibly in a different way. As i was about to finish my shopping i looked and there was the exact type of texture i have been looking for to do one particular project. As i was shopping i saw another texture that they labelled as being for one thing, but it occurred to me that i might be able to use it in another way. So i brought them all home...got them out and started playing. Ok this one works for this but not for that...ahhh but now i see it might work better turned this way, etc.

I spend the time...i get the results.

Just a correction...what i said about parcels to you in IM was that as i added individual parcels over time and did not bother to join them i discovered some things...i did not buy them from someone all chopped up. Some things are discovered by happy accidents while your head is turned to look at something else...

I cant tell you how to make changes within yourself...you need to look deep inside and know yourself well...try things and learn about yourself...again...not something someone from outside can give you...you have to do the work if you are really interested.

No it does not - better might mean more fun but not commercially viable so you use it purely to spread enjoyment around. Perhaps as a loss leader for other products and to seed your name around. There are more definitions of better than commercially viable.

It certainly is not an scripting limitation problem.

Yes, that's fine. But that doesn't excuse SL lacking a tool for automatically making prims touch. Or even having burn occur when prims overlap. (Yes, I know it's because "they're fighting for the z-buffer" but, why are they? Why not specify a rule for which appears in front? As long as it was consistent it would work gridwide and would help against prim drift too.)



Again, everything that could have been helped by different things appearing on the screen is at least in part the fault of SL. I only found out about the house when a friend happened to wander past, but that's partly SL's fault for having geography.



Ah, but what happened during that ... ?



I didn't ask you to do that though, I asked you to tell me what I needed to change things to.

If your products are not selling because someone has made a better version, then to be able to overcome that by making an even better version yourself, the improvements that you make have to be business viable. Otherwise, they won't make your products sell.

It isn't supposed to be about using marketing to sell a product you know to be inferior to less marketed competitors (and I asked Jojogirl about this in-world and she confirmed that is not her intention)

Could do a bit of both.

You're getting drawn in, Gabriele. A clear case of negative feedback at work.

actually love, it's beginning to seem more like trolling than anything.

I'm seeking help, and to highlight a problem scripters face in the market, rather than just trying to get replies for the sake of getting replies (trolling).

You're rather failing at highlighting a problem. Nobody seems to agree with you that it exists.

I haven't seen Pep is a few days. Yumi has some sort of axe to grind, but I don't see her as trolling. Though I've been wrong before.

the only real problem is that you are not willing to spend the time necessary to learn. you want someone to 'give' you everything. where's the pride in that?