How do you tell Man from Woman?

Hey all,

I am wondering how, in a medium that you can't tell if the user is a man or woman, and that is something that matters to you, do you tell one from the other. Is there a trick? A buzzword? Do you just "know"?

Fo the people that it does matter to...how do you know?

If when lost they don't ask for directions, it's a man. If they can't read a map, it's a woman.

You can never *REALLY* know. I even had a girlfriend in 1st life whose gender I found myself questioning. Even after sleeping with her!.

Some like to kid themselves that they can, but there is no way to know. You can never be 100% sure.

Well, did you have to turn 'her' over first?

It's easier to tell a when man is being a woman, then when a woman is being a man, it's usually more apparent how they phrase things, but it's not an exact science.

I was trying to think of something witty to say but my brains dead.

Hey, just because she had two holes didn't make her a woman. Those surgeons work wonders these days!.

But whatever.. If it taste like chicken...

..or prawns.

You don't. That is the whole concept of a Second Life. Be what you want with anonymity.

For me, I have always just took the Av at face value, no matter how they present themself. In daily interactions, whether or not they are male or female in RL, has no bearing on whether or not I'm going to be their friend or not, even if they are presenting themselves as the opposite of what they appear to be. Obviously, in this type of world, where there are so many ways one can make yourself be so different (furry, robot, cartoon character, you get the picture) it just really seems small-minded to worry about things like that.

Now, if you get involved with someone romantically, this can lead to problems for some people. I've been lucky myself in that regard since the couple of people I have been involved with have been completely honest with me about their RL (and me, with them) to such a degree that I know for certain who they are. But did I in the beginning, or did they for me? No. Did we worry about it? No. They too, took me at face value. Perhaps there is some innate way of behavior that males and females have, I'm not sure about that.

I do know, that I was put in the position recently of having a female new friend question MY sex, and I was quite upset about it. I was quite sure that in our new budding friendship, it was obvious that she understood that I was clearly female, and for some reason, she felt the need to put me through some crazy "test" to access if I were a women or not. Well, for me, this put an end this this new friendship since I felt I could not be friends with someone who did not trust me, did not believe me, and for that matter, apparently did not possibly enjoy the company of men either; if I happened on the off chance to be a man!

So, I digressed a bit here to make a point. In this world, tolerence is important. Remembering that behind every Av is a human being, no matter what that person is. And, if you aren't ready to accept them for who or what they are, than you shouldn't develop a close friendship with them. Surprises are bound to happen, but for me at least, I appreciate those surprises and I know for a lot of people here, some of those surprises have turned into some wonderful, deep lasting relationship/friendships.

You did not! go there! ahaha

Luckily I do not use Second Life for romantic adventures, so the gender of my friends or acquaintances does not concern me. Other than voice, there is no real way to know for sure. (even then some men might sound like girls or vice versa, lol) I really don't care if the thing behind the avatar is a government computer program that has gained sentience or a chimpanzee that has escaped from its cage at the zoo and found a computer. If your time with them is valuable, who cares?

Now, this I have to disagree with. Of the women I have known who try to pull off being guy, they cannot quite get the confidence and arrogance that a man has.

I really should introduce you to some of my rl ex's. On second thoughts, I wouldn't subject anyone to that!

you can`t tell except by voice

but tbh, what does it matter while they`re being good friends?
with most of my friends we know eachothers gender, but would anything be different if we didn`t know? nope, we were friends befor we all knew it

going for a relationship it might be wise to know it or get a unexpected suprise lol

It's not something I worry about.

But I suppose if a person dreads finding out that they might fall hopelessly in online love with say, someone of their own gender...

...then I suppose the person they worry most about in terms of identity would be themselves!

By the time it should matter that deeply, you should already be close enough to know the facts.

And if you have a friend that doesn't care to share, well, friendship means that you don't pry, right?

* * * * *

Incidentally, one of the best ways to tell is to see how close a person's avatar stands to another. Men have a larger social distance, and they maintain that online with their characters amazingly accurately - it's been studied.

Of course, after reading this many of you will probably now stand too close or too far on purpose...

Is this true? In all cultures? I know I'm often bothered by people who step into my 'bubble' but I've always thought of myself as being 'all woman'. Also, in many parts of the world, men hug and kiss when greeting other men - they also stand very close to each other when talking, much closer than North-American 'standards'.

With voice morphers voice isn't even all that reliable either.

what hiro said

You can't always tell. If they spend a lot of L$ and like to shop, it may be a girl. Or you can use voice chat and find out.

The simple answer is you can't.

I'm not into deception of any kind, so I tend to steer clear of people who seem a bit 'off' in their gender presentation. I honestly believe (because my own experience has proven it so) that some people just have better radar, or gut instincts about this sort of thing.

I don't necessarily care who's being what in SL.....I'm just not interested in role play of any sort and to me, pretending to be another gender in SL...is a form of role play, and I just can't wrap my brain around it, sorry. I'm a girl, I like being female. My avitar is female, the cyber manifestation of the little voice in my head.

I'm not interested in romance...so the gender issue isn't going to affect me there....but I'm here to make genuine friends.....so I tend to associate with like minded folks who are not into character role play. Can I be absolutely sure that the men I associate with are men, and the women are women.....no.... not in all cases. But in many, a lot of personal info gets exchanged, somtimes even RL photos.... and there's just no doubt. I don't tink (or I hope not) that folks who are gender switching are going to create an entirely different RL scenerio to go along with their deception in SL. If people are going THAT far... that's just a little scary to me.

Who studied this? I don't think you can use that necessarily as a given. I'm female, but my "personal space" distance is very large in RL, and in SL too. I just think it's rude to stand on-top of a person and invade their space, regardless of how well you know them. The only time I'm very close, is if I'm sitting with them, or in more intimate situations. No need to get right up into their face (well, I'm so short, it's more like right up into their stomach anyway, so that's kind of embarrassing, but you get the point).

I'm a fem! in RL & SL and a notorious standing back friendly observer *cough lurker*!
I love being anti soch in SL!

*edit* What Elora Lunasea said too, 'cept I'm very tall, same deal.
What is?! 3 ft of personal space in meters anyways?

(I'm quoting you, but the answer isn't really directed at you, if that makes sense )

Male and female have a partially overlapping vocal range. *Everyone* can learn to sound like the opposite sex and you'd never know the difference, all it takes is practice.

Pictures or even a webcam won't give you a definite answer either, it could either be a friend/sister/someone or they could just pass for looking like the opposite sex.

A scan of their birth certificate won't tell you for certain either since transgendered individuals can have those changed to reflect their expressed gender.

Nothing short of a DNA test is ever going to give you a satisfactory answer and that might be just a little bit too much to ask of someone just to settle someone else's paranoia.

The question really isn't "how can I tell?", but rather "why do I care so much?"

---

More cynical:

I've had close friends who turned out to be a different gender, but I've also had close friends who suddenly turned out to be happily married ("it doesn't change anything, does it?", who don't look anything like the pictures they sent I never even asked for ("I thought you'd like me better if you thought I looked like that", or who turn out to be half of twice the age they said were.

Ironically most of those pulled a "prove yourself" stunt on me, so I'm really wondering if the people who are distrusting in the first place aren't that way because of their own guilty conscience. After all, if you’re lying to them, why wouldn't they be lying to you?

If you search for the "anti-social bot" thread, they're the ones who studied that in SL specifically. If I remember correctly , the larger context was to see how people "protected" their "personal space" in a virtual world, but part of it was based by (avatar) gender as well.