SL5B - No Kid Avatars, please!

Thanks!

I would bet then they are working on getting rid of all child AV's and this is just a first step.
Kinda has the gambling and bank ban feel to it

LL is not only encouraging discrimination against child avs with this decision, they're participating in it...they're letting the nasty-minded few, both in-world and out, with their almost uniformly wrong assumptions about child avatars hold sway. It's appalling.

If this is so, then then any dream is over. PC is king.
Your World, Their Cowardice

If this is so, then it's very important that people who disagree make their voices heard.


1) Get confirmation from LL that child avatars are not welcome

2) EVERYBODY get and wear a child avatar at predetermined events


I know that not everybody is comfortable with child avatars.
I have not interacted with a child avatar as I have not had occasion to do so, but if I do I will talk with them as if they were an adult. I mean no disrespect to people with child avatars, but I deal with people as minds and I don't do RP in SL except for maybe a little
I do have a tiny doll avatar (see photos in the Bay City RP thread), but that probably doesn't count as 'child', and that was always the adult me talking as an adult when I interacted with people.

I do trust that even people who might be uncomfortable with child avatars would still be prepared in a spirit of party/agitprop/fun to participate in a mass child-avatar event.
It would be a hoot!!!
Let's go mad


So:
Where can we get good avatars and outfits?

Where's the party?
How will LL stop a few hundred avatars of unpredictable appearance TPing to an event?



Add:

It's a fifth birthday??

Let's all be 5-year-old-avatars.

Well, I'm not sure what Kirk is pushing is any worse than what Schumer is pushing.





Personally I feel a bit better about our schools and libraries working harder to safeguard children than I do about a "system to allow commercial social networking websites to compare their databases of users to the Internet identifiers of persons in the National Sex Offender Registry. Exempts such websites from civil liability if compliant with the requirements of this Act. " And if you think that S.431 doesn't effect SL you're dreaming.

How is discriminating against child avatars "PC"?

Everything I would like to say has been said already.

Tom Saywer
Orphan Annie
Johnny Quest
Any of the numerous children from Oliver Twist and other Dicken's stories
Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy
Nancy Drew
Red Chief
Dennis the Menace
Charlie Brown, Lucy, Linus, Schroder, Pepermint Patty
Pippie Longstockings

None of these literary and cultural icons are welcome.

It's a sad day

By cancelling the event.

i wish the election would get here and gone so they will back off of this kind of things..
the country has me wanting to buy enough land with a big tree on it make a tree house and live like a mountain woman for the rest of my years..
they make more laws and crap and don't enforce the ones we have on us already..
it's easier to get on tv and say look a new law and my name is turn head vote for me!!
*Smacks the turd head hard as she can*

This is all kinds of bad. This could have been a perfect opportunity to show what roleplaying as a child is about, and counter some of the rumors and allegations against child avatars.
By excluding child avatars from the exhibition, LL more or less supports those rumors, by officially declaring that playing as a child avatar is wrong and unwanted.

I am not in any way involved with the "child community", and have in fact earlier criticized many of its members for pushing their roleplay on others in "neutral zones". But they have every right to build a roleplaying community to enjoy themselves, and it should be exactly such subcultures - representing SL's diversity - showcased in an event about cultures in the virtual world.

This is a huge blow to the "our world, our imagination" philosophy, and if LL does not reverse its stance on this, I seriously suggest that everybody who have an avatar which is not a true-to-life representation of their player pull their support from the event, and host a parallel event, possibly a little before or after.
I am sure many better offers will quickly show up, but I am currently managing an Openspace sim under construction. I would be happy to temporarily pack up what's there and offer it for such an event.

Hmmm...maybe I was wrong. You MIGHT just be real after all...

Thank You. Some seem to think that this pandering demagoguery is strictly the realm of one political party, but it isn't And Schumer is in my opinion, one of the biggest ambulance chasing media whores out there, willing to jump in and close any barn door after the horse has run out. The best part of moving out of the City was not being represented by that jackass any longer.

You know, I really don’t care if I get labeled, called out or blasted for this, its something I have thought about for a long time now.

I think if anyone is burying their heads in the sand its people who wish to depict themselves as children, very small children at that, on the adult grid – a very not so innocent place, strife with sex, violence and very adult themes (as well as normality) - its people who wish to create a tolerance for those of us who do not ever want that line in the sand crossed. People who are trying to force other people who work so hard to protect actual real children in the real world wish us to turn a blind eye and become desensitized to the presence of children, small children portrayed by grownups who often talk like toddlers, to think its just fine and dandy little kids are running around in a very adult world – the main adult grid. Its offensive to many people and I for one really do not understand why you can’t see or understand this. I am not a republican, but I do and have given my life over to protecting the innocent and childhood as it should be because it really does take a village, and I honestly feel child avatars make a mockery of this. Its not funny, not at all.

Why can’t you understand that it isn’t about excluding children, its about not ever allowing anyone or anything to cross that line in the sand. The offense of seeing what many of us try so hard to protect, real children in places they should not be. We try to separate children every day from places they shouldn’t be, things they shouldn’t see, things they should not be involved with, and you wish us to now tolerate this by pretending to be five years old, to turn our backs on core values. Why can you not see that this strikes as hard and sharp as a knife at the very core of what values we have? Why would you not want us to have these values, why would you want us to compromise what many of us have fought and regaled against, given up our real lives for in the real world to protect?

You people who pretend to be children, do you take your five and six year olds to places where there are going to be very adult themes? If you don’t, why not? Would you let your five and six year olds join second life? How come? Sure I understand that you are just pretending, but it doesn’t make it any easier to become desensitized to what you are doing, it’s a gut reaction. When I walk into a pool hall in the real world, where adults play, curse, carry on, drink and act out and I see some child there I honestly want to hurl, that isn’t a place for children. When I go to the store and its 2am and I see some person dragging their small child along so they can buy beer or whatever I just do not understand. What the hell is wrong with people? Have we all lost our damn minds? Yes I teach my child about the adult world, but I never took her to clubs, places where people are dressed provocatively, drank, cursed, had sexual themes, violence, etc. Why the hell should I accept this tolerance from Second Life? You can’t tell me for one second that you don’t encounter the adult culture, and if you do, great, but why do you expect us, who often do, to not flinch when we see (adults depicted as) little kids in this same world?

Please for the love of all things beautiful why do you need to pretend to be a small child in a very adult world? Feel free to explain it to me because I do not understand at all. And I really don’t care who this pisses off, if you don’t want to see where I and many others are coming from, if you want us to pretend its ok, but it’s not. It’s not ok for small children to be exposed to very adult themes; you cannot ever make me believe that is. So explain to me why you think it is perfectly acceptable even in your pretend world where very real people do very real business whom are not pretending? Why should I become desensitized to adults pretending to be children? Would or should I tolerate this in the real world? This isn’t about lifestyle choices, its about depicted children, why is that so hard to understand? Children in the real world don’t get to chose their lifestyle, its chosen for them by adults, adults who should be protecting them as they cannot protect themselves. Why is it so hard to understand that anything that offends that notion is something that some of us want to avoid at all costs everywhere we go?

Yes I am ranting, its been pent up for over a year now. I just don’t understand why some people can’t understand where I and many others like me who are too afraid to speak up are coming from. I just wish some people could understand that many people are extremely passionate about keeping that line firmly in the sand, keeping children as they are, protected and innocent for as long as possible, at least until they are ready. Pretending to be a small child in a very adult world makes a complete mockery of this core value. Yes, it is frightening to some of us, because we want to protect children, but we can’t protect you, we don’t need to, but the visual and auditory representation of what you are doing is so utterly confusing it makes one…angry and seem like a damn lunatic.

*mumbles to herself as she stumbles off in search of medication…

It certainly isn't one party, and any halfhearted google check shows that clearly.

But really, the bottom line is LL cowardice. Child av's have nothing to do with what this bill is about.

What part of "adult grid" aren't you getting? Who are you to tell anyone in SL what they can and cannot portray?

But it's NOT a "very adult world", Nectere...not everywhere.

SL is Your World, Your Imagination. There are lots of PG sims. There are lots of non-adult builds. There's lots of room for people to play...and to play in the all-out, sense-of-wonder way that we did when we were kids.

Nectere, I'm not a child and I don't have a child avatar. But I'm not interested in anything in SL which is unsuitable for children and I don't have any trouble avoiding it. So I imagine that people who role play children are probably able to avoid places where children shouldn't go.

What part of desensitization are YOU not getting?

To Nectere Niven:
A very short answer, which I am sure many players of child avatars can elaborate at length on:
Almost all child avatars are *not* here to mingle with the adults in smoky bars and be places where children should not be. Most have build their own corner, just like, say, fantasy players have build elven forests. They are telling stories about (themselves as) children, using SL as the canvas and paper, just like any other roleplaying community.

What????

Desensitized by acting like children in a park, or a playground?

The bit where in RL I have children in my environment.
"They're everywhere!!"

Your mistake is to believe that SL is mostly/entirely about sex.
You mistake is to believe that if a child avatar showed up in a SL sex-spot that they wouldn't be ARed / Orbited.

I respect every single one of your opinions in this post. I will not label, or call you out, or blast you for them; but I would like to counter some of them, and answer some questions you asked. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right this second. I will post a response later tonight.

Nectere, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with real children.

We all have our reasons for the avatars we choose, but you have to remember that we're all all also supposed to be adults behind the avatar. If RL children do manage to sneak in, then that's something their parents need to address, not the SL populace. And, while running a child av doesn't appeal to me personally, I also know there are a lot of people who don't understand my desire to be Neko either...the point of SL is freedom to be who you want to be, and LL's most recent decision has lessened that to some degree.

As for 'desensitization,' I sincerely doubt seeing cartoon children running around on a computer screen changes what most adult people view as appropriate for RL children...the majority of child avatars also make an effort to stay out of strongly mature areas, so I'm not sure why you were so focused on that point.

Does anyone have the URL from LL that HAS the new rules?

I would kinda like to make sure this is real

I understand you are pretending I do, but do you understand its a gut reaction when we see what appears to be a small child talking and standing around next to several people who are half dressed? Do you understand that it strikes a nerve and it scares us? Because it goes very hard against things we believe in in the real world? Again, its not about a lifestyle choice, its about what visually is represented to be a small innocent child in a world they do not belong. Sure its knee jerk reaction, but I find it hard to believe that I should ignore that gut feeling ever.

Do what you want, I mean really I am not against you, but I just wish you understood why it scares some people. I see child avatars a lot in places with adult themes with people who are dressed in a way that would get them arrested in the real world - or is at the very least highly frowned upon. I am sorry I cant get past that, I try to, I do keep to myself and I have never said anything about it before in public. But again I realize you are pretending, tho I dont understand it, do what you want, just realize why some people are offended by what we see.