Second Life Forums Archive - New Xstreet forums open

Ponsonby Low

Unregistered User

Join date: 21 May 2008

Posts: 1,893

09-12-2009 14:17

From: Qie Niangao

It's long been a problem that recorded knowledge about SL has been scattered hither and yon: the Forums, the Wiki, the Knowledge Base, the viewer's contextual Help and tooltips, the ToS/CS, the Blog, and even the jira. ...
Why isn't all of it searchable in one site: -specific space? Well, one stupid reason is that they exclude the Forums from web spidering... so if one uses Google to find an answer, it's guaranteed not to be from the Forums. So that would be easy to fix--but if one indexes one's own site, a lot more is possible, especially for content from structured, interlinked sources.

It would probably be dreaming to imagine that somebody in LL understands Semantic Web, but still: if they're able to pull together forums and "answers" and blog into one content management system... and somehow glue in the wiki with something more than surface-grammar links... they could have a pretty comprehensive and coherent body of SL knowledge. ...

As the feature set scales, and as the rate of new user entry accelerates (please God), the value increases of having all that knowledge readily accessible.

Let's say they do prioritize pulling all the information into one site-specific place.

We know that someone high up in the LL management team has a propensity to want to exclude SL information (i.e. these Forums) from web spidering.

What odds they expand this 'hidden from public view' status to ALL the information sources you listed (Forums, Wiki, Knowledge Base, etc), sitting on that one hypothetical site---and also continue the hallowed LL tradition of not prioritizing Search functionality?

(Yes, I know that's cynical. But I think it's a valid extrapolation from past LL choices.)

_____________________

War is over---if you want it.

P Low Low P Studio SMALL PARCEL SOLUTIONS: Homes & shops of distinction, with low prim-counts, surprisingly low prices!

Ponsonby Low

Unregistered User

Join date: 21 May 2008

Posts: 1,893

09-12-2009 14:27

From: Nika Talaj

LL has never shown any interest in creating the sort of searchable knowledge store that would be of overwhelming value, as you describe. ...

I think the primary driver behind the new website is branding. As SL ages, LL needs to buttress up their image as a Web 3.0 leader; the fact that their website was stone-age made that image unsupportable. I also think they want to facilitate more instant communication between all the media they support, more linkage, both inworld and out. I think that's what the Dashboard is for, and the obvious next step there is to make it user-configurable.

Eventually I suppose one will be able to, using just LL tools, twitter from SL, have your avatar participate in a RL videoconference, send an SL Answer to email, export pictures to facebook, import contacts from social networking sites, issue invites to an SL meeting that reach people's outlook, etc..

That sounds quite likely. And to me it makes sense.

But---it's short-sighted to ignore the value that information has in enhancing creativity.

It's the Big Divide in LL philosophy, from the inception date to today: is SL "for" replacing in-person business communications with virtual business communications? Or is it "for" creativity and innovation in the use of virtual space (which could lead to applications as yet undreamed of, not to mention pure entertainment)?

If SL is "for" business communications, then it doesn't really matter so much if people who've registered as individuals can find information. All that matters is that corporations can hand their employees a one-page Cheat Sheet of what they need to know to participate in the next conference.

And since indications are that "for business communication" IS the guiding philosophy at LL today, they are unlikely to devote many resources to enhancing the flow of information.

_____________________

War is over---if you want it.

P Low Low P Studio SMALL PARCEL SOLUTIONS: Homes & shops of distinction, with low prim-counts, surprisingly low prices!

Kidd Krasner

Registered User

Join date: 1 Jan 2007

Posts: 1,938

09-12-2009 15:10

From: Ciaran Laval

If they renamed "blog search" to "Forum search" would that be an improvement

No, because it would still be wrong, and still be in the wrong place.

An improvement would be a sidebar search box with multiple entries, such as http://forums.mozillazine.org/ uses. It's not perfect, and in particular, there are color scheme issues (not as bad as the new SL forums). But it acknowledges that search is such an incredibly important feature that it deserves that much static space, and that for a site that combines both a knowledge base and a forum, dedicating two separate search boxes isn't extravagant.

Kidd Krasner

Registered User

Join date: 1 Jan 2007

Posts: 1,938

09-12-2009 15:30

From: Qie Niangao

It's long been a problem that recorded knowledge about SL has been scattered hither and yon: the Forums, the Wiki, the Knowledge Base, the viewer's contextual Help and tooltips, the ToS/CS, the Blog, and even the jira. Where should somebody with a question look for an answer? And how do they come to know that?

For example, from experience, many of us will try to search the pjira for some explanation of whatever wackiness we're seeing, before searching elsewhere or asking a question--but how the hell do we explain to a newcomer how to judge when that's appropriate?

Why isn't all of it searchable in one site: -specific space? Well, one stupid reason is that they exclude the Forums from web spidering... so if one uses Google to find an answer, it's guaranteed not to be from the Forums. So that would be easy to fix--but if one indexes one's own site, a lot more is possible, especially for content from structured, interlinked sources.

The scattering of information isn't the problem, it's just a symptom.

The problem is that the information isn't being put into the right place to begin with. With a powerful, inclusive search engine, you might work around it, but it's a heavy-weight approach that ignores some key subtle issues.

For example, if you're looking for the policy on gambling, or adult activities, or what constitutes prohibited sexual ageplay, or whatever, it wouldn't be enough for a single search box to turn up everything that's ever been written on the subject - even if the search could be limited to stuff written by Linden employees. The reason is that policies don't belong in blogs, people reading blogs won't give them the same weight as something in an official policy section, people reading blogs won't trust them to represent current policy, etc.

If this is really LL's motivation, then it's a classic case of trying to use technology to solve a people problem. While I don't buy the "half a tech-writer" or "one programmer-year" statements, at least not without more data, it's legitimate - and sound management - to ask which of the problems being targeted by the website changes could have been solved by hiring more tech writers, or a documentation administrator (i.e. librarian), or some other non-programming approach.

My guess is that Nika's reasoning is closer to the mark. Integrating the information domains may have been a secondary consideration, but I can't believe it was the prime motivator.

Kidd Krasner

Registered User

Join date: 1 Jan 2007

Posts: 1,938

09-12-2009 15:36

From: Ponsonby Low

What odds they expand this 'hidden from public view' status to ALL the information sources you listed (Forums, Wiki, Knowledge Base, etc), sitting on that one hypothetical site---and also continue the hallowed LL tradition of not prioritizing Search functionality?

I haven't checked whether the new forums are hidden from spiders, but it is possible to read them without logging in, unlike these.

I've already commented over there that this creates an unusual usability issue. Since they don't have single sign-on yet, it's easy to wind up reading a thread without being logged in, but you won't be able to reply. If you're used to these forums, you're less likely to consider login status as the cause, and instead go crazy hunting for the Reply button.

Ponsonby Low

Unregistered User

Join date: 21 May 2008

Posts: 1,893

09-12-2009 16:04

Confusion all around, fer shur.

_____________________

War is over---if you want it.

P Low Low P Studio SMALL PARCEL SOLUTIONS: Homes & shops of distinction, with low prim-counts, surprisingly low prices!

Qie Niangao

Coin-operated

Join date: 24 May 2006

Posts: 7,138

09-12-2009 16:07

From: Nika Talaj

I think the primary driver behind the new website is branding. As SL ages, LL needs to buttress up their image as a Web 3.0 leader; the fact that their website was stone-age made that image unsupportable.

Yes, that sounds pretty likely, especially as a reason to pay a whole VP organization to work on it. (I had no idea that happened until your post--thanks for that info!)

From: Ponsonby Low

What odds they expand this 'hidden from public view' status to ALL the information sources you listed (Forums, Wiki, Knowledge Base, etc), sitting on that one hypothetical site---and also continue the hallowed LL tradition of not prioritizing Search functionality?

Yeah, I can see that happening, too.

I can't defend my whole Semantic Web flight of fancy. As I said, it was a shot in the dark, and I really wish LL would give us some hints of what the big deal is to be. They're not showing us Viewer 2.0, either, and fervently disclaiming any glimpses (as at SLCC) to be long since outdated.

I'm not sure why all the secrecy lately. Maybe somebody has developed a Steve Jobs-like obsession for the Big Reveal. Or maybe they're avoiding having to listen to customers, on the premise that what we don't know, we can't bitch about.

We'll show *them* !

_____________________

Archived for Your Protection

Ponsonby Low

Unregistered User

Join date: 21 May 2008

Posts: 1,893

09-12-2009 16:37

From: Qie Niangao

Or maybe they're avoiding having to listen to customers, on the premise that what we don't know, we can't bitch about.

That DOES sound likely.

From: Qie Niangao

We'll show *them* !

That DOES sound unlikely.

^_~

_____________________

War is over---if you want it.

P Low Low P Studio SMALL PARCEL SOLUTIONS: Homes & shops of distinction, with low prim-counts, surprisingly low prices!

Ann Otoole

Registered User

Join date: 22 May 2007

Posts: 867

09-12-2009 17:52

I doubt much at all will change. Except you get picture avatars and text sigs in which you can post a link to your SL location or xstreet brand. In fact I bet within a few days of the move there will be tens of thousands of views on thousands of replies.

Not to mention this is a LL forum and the new rules don't say the new rules are limited to the new forums. They do in fact appear to apply here as well.

Nika Talaj

now you see her ...

Join date: 2 Jan 2007

Posts: 5,449

09-12-2009 21:49

From: Ann Otoole

I doubt much at all will change. Except you get picture avatars and text sigs in which you can post a link to your SL location or xstreet brand. In fact I bet within a few days of the move there will be tens of thousands of views on thousands of replies.

Not to mention this is a LL forum and the new rules don't say the new rules are limited to the new forums. They do in fact appear to apply here as well.

Text sigs and picture avatars, as opposed to the graphic sigs and picture avatars we have here? (Check the User CP menu, far left on the toolbar).

I DO think it is a problem in the FLogs that the larger merchants cannot post links to their own websites, as they have always done here.

This forum has always had guidelines *points to toolbar again, and stickies in each subforum*. Since it will be shut down, I'm sure LL will not be bothering to try to enforce the Flog guidelines here, in the interim - nor do I see a lot of concerns about that. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

You are surely entitled to like the new Flogs, if that's your issue? As you say, I'm sure many will.
.

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

09-12-2009 22:02

I think you can search particular forums. Go to https://blogs.secondlife.com/search and click "More Options". The "Where" control lets you select specific "forums" or groups of "forums".

They do need to add a "Search this forum I've already selected by virtue of being in the forum already" function to each forum. In other words, make the specific forum search easy to use and intuitive.

And make a nice simple grid with sortable column headers and a New Posts link like God intended forums to have.

_____________________

-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

-

http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
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Talarus Luan

Ancient Archaean Dragon

Join date: 18 Mar 2006

Posts: 4,831

09-13-2009 09:16

From: Qie Niangao

The thing is, I genuinely like Blue and am strongly inclined to believe he intends to deliver on what he says. (I'm less confident that there will be the kind of resources available long enough to actually make it happen; I'd be unable to construct a compelling enough business case to defend that investment against other priorities.)

Meh. He's a Linden.

Like most other Lindens, he's probably an OK person to meet on the street, but once the Tao of Linden personality is in control, he's just as susceptible to rightthink and marketing-speak as the rest of them. Of course he believes he intends to deliver on what he says; he drinks the kool-aid. Not unlike Jack did with OpenSpaces and adfarms.

From: someone

Tal asked what I might mean about the new flogs/forgs/blorums potentially having features not easily replicated with conventional forums software. I *really* wish LL would give us something concrete to go on here, but I'll take a shot:

It's long been a problem that recorded knowledge about SL has been scattered hither and yon: the Forums, the Wiki, the Knowledge Base, the viewer's contextual Help and tooltips, the ToS/CS, the Blog, and even the jira. Where should somebody with a question look for an answer? And how do they come to know that?

For example, from experience, many of us will try to search the pjira for some explanation of whatever wackiness we're seeing, before searching elsewhere or asking a question--but how the hell do we explain to a newcomer how to judge when that's appropriate?

Why isn't all of it searchable in one site: -specific space? Well, one stupid reason is that they exclude the Forums from web spidering... so if one uses Google to find an answer, it's guaranteed not to be from the Forums. So that would be easy to fix--but if one indexes one's own site, a lot more is possible, especially for content from structured, interlinked sources.

It would probably be dreaming to imagine that somebody in LL understands Semantic Web, but still: if they're able to pull together forums and "answers" and blog into one content management system... and somehow glue in the wiki with something more than surface-grammar links... they could have a pretty comprehensive and coherent body of SL knowledge. Further integration with the jira would be another challenge, but I think necessary.

It's not as if this will be The SL Singularity And Second-Coming or anything, but it could have all kinds of utility. And not just for end users: imagine yourself a new developer, handed a bit of functionality to implement; if you could search for related functionality by some means more efficient than scanning the codebase, you'd be less likely to screw the pooch with code that steps on other features or breaks user-generated content.

As the feature set scales, and as the rate of new user entry accelerates (please God), the value increases of having all that knowledge readily accessible.

The problem is they are starting with a piece of BLOG software, and not a very good one at that, then transforming it Frankenstein-style into this new ueber-portal-whatever-the-hell-it-is-thing. I can understand the desire to make a one-stop-shop for all information and communication about Second Life and with Linden Lab, but they are taking this eyestrain monstrosity and trying to make it into that. They aren't even going the bolt-on route. They are stretching the thing into weird shapes it was never meant to have, by its core design. They took the blog comments system and stretched it to make it into a "forum" (I'd laugh, but then I realize the joke's on us). They added a "point" system and stretched it into "Yahoo Answers".

In the end, what they are going to have is this facsimile of what they really want, which is really hard to use, hard to find anything, hideous to look at, and does nothing well, even though it does supposedly everything, just like they intend.

Merging the knowledgebase into the Wiki is an example of a good project that I can get behind, because it makes perfect sense. Turning the blog into a one-stop "community and communications portal" doesn't make any sense to me at all. MAKING a "community and communications portal" DOES make sense, though. The problem is the way they went about it.

Maybe they will find Aladdin's Lamp and use one of their wishes to make it into this supposedly super-awesome thing that everyone (including me) will grow to love. If they do, I sure hope they use the remaining wishes just as well on the rest of the major problems in SL. However, that's about as far as I am going to hope for the best when it comes to LL. Just been burned too many times from what I can see as nothing more than gross incompetence.

New Xstreet forums open
Ponsonby Low Unregistered User Join date: 21 May 2008 Posts: 1,893	09-12-2009 14:17 From: Qie Niangao It's long been a problem that recorded knowledge about SL has been scattered hither and yon: the Forums, the Wiki, the Knowledge Base, the viewer's contextual Help and tooltips, the ToS/CS, the Blog, and even the jira. ... Why isn't all of it searchable in one site: -specific space? Well, one stupid reason is that they exclude the Forums from web spidering... so if one uses Google to find an answer, it's guaranteed not to be from the Forums. So that would be easy to fix--but if one indexes one's own site, a lot more is possible, especially for content from structured, interlinked sources. It would probably be dreaming to imagine that somebody in LL understands Semantic Web, but still: if they're able to pull together forums and "answers" and blog into one content management system... and somehow glue in the wiki with something more than surface-grammar links... they could have a pretty comprehensive and coherent body of SL knowledge. ... As the feature set scales, and as the rate of new user entry accelerates (please God), the value increases of having all that knowledge readily accessible. Let's say they do prioritize pulling all the information into one site-specific place. We know that someone high up in the LL management team has a propensity to want to exclude SL information (i.e. these Forums) from web spidering. What odds they expand this 'hidden from public view' status to ALL the information sources you listed (Forums, Wiki, Knowledge Base, etc), sitting on that one hypothetical site---and also continue the hallowed LL tradition of not prioritizing Search functionality? (Yes, I know that's cynical. But I think it's a valid extrapolation from past LL choices.) _____________________ War is over---if you want it. P Low Low P Studio SMALL PARCEL SOLUTIONS: Homes & shops of distinction, with low prim-counts, surprisingly low prices!
Ponsonby Low Unregistered User Join date: 21 May 2008 Posts: 1,893	09-12-2009 14:27 From: Nika Talaj LL has never shown any interest in creating the sort of searchable knowledge store that would be of overwhelming value, as you describe. ... I think the primary driver behind the new website is branding. As SL ages, LL needs to buttress up their image as a Web 3.0 leader; the fact that their website was stone-age made that image unsupportable. I also think they want to facilitate more instant communication between all the media they support, more linkage, both inworld and out. I think that's what the Dashboard is for, and the obvious next step there is to make it user-configurable. Eventually I suppose one will be able to, using just LL tools, twitter from SL, have your avatar participate in a RL videoconference, send an SL Answer to email, export pictures to facebook, import contacts from social networking sites, issue invites to an SL meeting that reach people's outlook, etc.. That sounds quite likely. And to me it makes sense. But---it's short-sighted to ignore the value that information has in enhancing creativity. It's the Big Divide in LL philosophy, from the inception date to today: is SL "for" replacing in-person business communications with virtual business communications? Or is it "for" creativity and innovation in the use of virtual space (which could lead to applications as yet undreamed of, not to mention pure entertainment)? If SL is "for" business communications, then it doesn't really matter so much if people who've registered as individuals can find information. All that matters is that corporations can hand their employees a one-page Cheat Sheet of what they need to know to participate in the next conference. And since indications are that "for business communication" IS the guiding philosophy at LL today, they are unlikely to devote many resources to enhancing the flow of information. _____________________ War is over---if you want it. P Low Low P Studio SMALL PARCEL SOLUTIONS: Homes & shops of distinction, with low prim-counts, surprisingly low prices!
Kidd Krasner Registered User Join date: 1 Jan 2007 Posts: 1,938	09-12-2009 15:10 From: Ciaran Laval If they renamed "blog search" to "Forum search" would that be an improvement No, because it would still be wrong, and still be in the wrong place. An improvement would be a sidebar search box with multiple entries, such as http://forums.mozillazine.org/ uses. It's not perfect, and in particular, there are color scheme issues (not as bad as the new SL forums). But it acknowledges that search is such an incredibly important feature that it deserves that much static space, and that for a site that combines both a knowledge base and a forum, dedicating two separate search boxes isn't extravagant.
Kidd Krasner Registered User Join date: 1 Jan 2007 Posts: 1,938	09-12-2009 15:30 From: Qie Niangao It's long been a problem that recorded knowledge about SL has been scattered hither and yon: the Forums, the Wiki, the Knowledge Base, the viewer's contextual Help and tooltips, the ToS/CS, the Blog, and even the jira. Where should somebody with a question look for an answer? And how do they come to know that? For example, from experience, many of us will try to search the pjira for some explanation of whatever wackiness we're seeing, before searching elsewhere or asking a question--but how the hell do we explain to a newcomer how to judge when that's appropriate? Why isn't all of it searchable in one site: -specific space? Well, one stupid reason is that they exclude the Forums from web spidering... so if one uses Google to find an answer, it's guaranteed not to be from the Forums. So that would be easy to fix--but if one indexes one's own site, a lot more is possible, especially for content from structured, interlinked sources. The scattering of information isn't the problem, it's just a symptom. The problem is that the information isn't being put into the right place to begin with. With a powerful, inclusive search engine, you might work around it, but it's a heavy-weight approach that ignores some key subtle issues. For example, if you're looking for the policy on gambling, or adult activities, or what constitutes prohibited sexual ageplay, or whatever, it wouldn't be enough for a single search box to turn up everything that's ever been written on the subject - even if the search could be limited to stuff written by Linden employees. The reason is that policies don't belong in blogs, people reading blogs won't give them the same weight as something in an official policy section, people reading blogs won't trust them to represent current policy, etc. If this is really LL's motivation, then it's a classic case of trying to use technology to solve a people problem. While I don't buy the "half a tech-writer" or "one programmer-year" statements, at least not without more data, it's legitimate - and sound management - to ask which of the problems being targeted by the website changes could have been solved by hiring more tech writers, or a documentation administrator (i.e. librarian), or some other non-programming approach. My guess is that Nika's reasoning is closer to the mark. Integrating the information domains may have been a secondary consideration, but I can't believe it was the prime motivator.
Kidd Krasner Registered User Join date: 1 Jan 2007 Posts: 1,938	09-12-2009 15:36 From: Ponsonby Low What odds they expand this 'hidden from public view' status to ALL the information sources you listed (Forums, Wiki, Knowledge Base, etc), sitting on that one hypothetical site---and also continue the hallowed LL tradition of not prioritizing Search functionality? I haven't checked whether the new forums are hidden from spiders, but it is possible to read them without logging in, unlike these. I've already commented over there that this creates an unusual usability issue. Since they don't have single sign-on yet, it's easy to wind up reading a thread without being logged in, but you won't be able to reply. If you're used to these forums, you're less likely to consider login status as the cause, and instead go crazy hunting for the Reply button.
Ponsonby Low Unregistered User Join date: 21 May 2008 Posts: 1,893	09-12-2009 16:04 Confusion all around, fer shur. _____________________ War is over---if you want it. P Low Low P Studio SMALL PARCEL SOLUTIONS: Homes & shops of distinction, with low prim-counts, surprisingly low prices!
Qie Niangao Coin-operated Join date: 24 May 2006 Posts: 7,138	09-12-2009 16:07 From: Nika Talaj I think the primary driver behind the new website is branding. As SL ages, LL needs to buttress up their image as a Web 3.0 leader; the fact that their website was stone-age made that image unsupportable. Yes, that sounds pretty likely, especially as a reason to pay a whole VP organization to work on it. (I had no idea that happened until your post--thanks for that info!) From: Ponsonby Low What odds they expand this 'hidden from public view' status to ALL the information sources you listed (Forums, Wiki, Knowledge Base, etc), sitting on that one hypothetical site---and also continue the hallowed LL tradition of not prioritizing Search functionality? Yeah, I can see that happening, too. I can't defend my whole Semantic Web flight of fancy. As I said, it was a shot in the dark, and I really wish LL would give us some hints of what the big deal is to be. They're not showing us Viewer 2.0, either, and fervently disclaiming any glimpses (as at SLCC) to be long since outdated. I'm not sure why all the secrecy lately. Maybe somebody has developed a Steve Jobs-like obsession for the Big Reveal. Or maybe they're avoiding having to listen to customers, on the premise that what we don't know, we can't bitch about. We'll show them ! _____________________ Archived for Your Protection
Ponsonby Low Unregistered User Join date: 21 May 2008 Posts: 1,893	09-12-2009 16:37 From: Qie Niangao Or maybe they're avoiding having to listen to customers, on the premise that what we don't know, we can't bitch about. That DOES sound likely. From: Qie Niangao We'll show them ! That DOES sound unlikely. ^_~ _____________________ War is over---if you want it. P Low Low P Studio SMALL PARCEL SOLUTIONS: Homes & shops of distinction, with low prim-counts, surprisingly low prices!
Ann Otoole Registered User Join date: 22 May 2007 Posts: 867	09-12-2009 17:52 I doubt much at all will change. Except you get picture avatars and text sigs in which you can post a link to your SL location or xstreet brand. In fact I bet within a few days of the move there will be tens of thousands of views on thousands of replies. Not to mention this is a LL forum and the new rules don't say the new rules are limited to the new forums. They do in fact appear to apply here as well.
Nika Talaj now you see her ... Join date: 2 Jan 2007 Posts: 5,449	09-12-2009 21:49 From: Ann Otoole I doubt much at all will change. Except you get picture avatars and text sigs in which you can post a link to your SL location or xstreet brand. In fact I bet within a few days of the move there will be tens of thousands of views on thousands of replies. Not to mention this is a LL forum and the new rules don't say the new rules are limited to the new forums. They do in fact appear to apply here as well. Text sigs and picture avatars, as opposed to the graphic sigs and picture avatars we have here? (Check the User CP menu, far left on the toolbar). I DO think it is a problem in the FLogs that the larger merchants cannot post links to their own websites, as they have always done here. This forum has always had guidelines points to toolbar again, and stickies in each subforum. Since it will be shut down, I'm sure LL will not be bothering to try to enforce the Flog guidelines here, in the interim - nor do I see a lot of concerns about that. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. You are surely entitled to like the new Flogs, if that's your issue? As you say, I'm sure many will. .
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	09-12-2009 22:02 I think you can search particular forums. Go to https://blogs.secondlife.com/search and click "More Options". The "Where" control lets you select specific "forums" or groups of "forums". They do need to add a "Search this forum I've already selected by virtue of being in the forum already" function to each forum. In other words, make the specific forum search easy to use and intuitive. And make a nice simple grid with sortable column headers and a New Posts link like God intended forums to have. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Talarus Luan Ancient Archaean Dragon Join date: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 4,831	09-13-2009 09:16 From: Qie Niangao The thing is, I genuinely like Blue and am strongly inclined to believe he intends to deliver on what he says. (I'm less confident that there will be the kind of resources available long enough to actually make it happen; I'd be unable to construct a compelling enough business case to defend that investment against other priorities.) Meh. He's a Linden. Like most other Lindens, he's probably an OK person to meet on the street, but once the Tao of Linden personality is in control, he's just as susceptible to rightthink and marketing-speak as the rest of them. Of course he believes he intends to deliver on what he says; he drinks the kool-aid. Not unlike Jack did with OpenSpaces and adfarms. From: someone Tal asked what I might mean about the new flogs/forgs/blorums potentially having features not easily replicated with conventional forums software. I really wish LL would give us something concrete to go on here, but I'll take a shot: It's long been a problem that recorded knowledge about SL has been scattered hither and yon: the Forums, the Wiki, the Knowledge Base, the viewer's contextual Help and tooltips, the ToS/CS, the Blog, and even the jira. Where should somebody with a question look for an answer? And how do they come to know that? For example, from experience, many of us will try to search the pjira for some explanation of whatever wackiness we're seeing, before searching elsewhere or asking a question--but how the hell do we explain to a newcomer how to judge when that's appropriate? Why isn't all of it searchable in one site: -specific space? Well, one stupid reason is that they exclude the Forums from web spidering... so if one uses Google to find an answer, it's guaranteed not to be from the Forums. So that would be easy to fix--but if one indexes one's own site, a lot more is possible, especially for content from structured, interlinked sources. It would probably be dreaming to imagine that somebody in LL understands Semantic Web, but still: if they're able to pull together forums and "answers" and blog into one content management system... and somehow glue in the wiki with something more than surface-grammar links... they could have a pretty comprehensive and coherent body of SL knowledge. Further integration with the jira would be another challenge, but I think necessary. It's not as if this will be The SL Singularity And Second-Coming or anything, but it could have all kinds of utility. And not just for end users: imagine yourself a new developer, handed a bit of functionality to implement; if you could search for related functionality by some means more efficient than scanning the codebase, you'd be less likely to screw the pooch with code that steps on other features or breaks user-generated content. As the feature set scales, and as the rate of new user entry accelerates (please God), the value increases of having all that knowledge readily accessible. The problem is they are starting with a piece of BLOG software, and not a very good one at that, then transforming it Frankenstein-style into this new ueber-portal-whatever-the-hell-it-is-thing. I can understand the desire to make a one-stop-shop for all information and communication about Second Life and with Linden Lab, but they are taking this eyestrain monstrosity and trying to make it into that. They aren't even going the bolt-on route. They are stretching the thing into weird shapes it was never meant to have, by its core design. They took the blog comments system and stretched it to make it into a "forum" (I'd laugh, but then I realize the joke's on us). They added a "point" system and stretched it into "Yahoo Answers". In the end, what they are going to have is this facsimile of what they really want, which is really hard to use, hard to find anything, hideous to look at, and does nothing well, even though it does supposedly everything, just like they intend. Merging the knowledgebase into the Wiki is an example of a good project that I can get behind, because it makes perfect sense. Turning the blog into a one-stop "community and communications portal" doesn't make any sense to me at all. MAKING a "community and communications portal" DOES make sense, though. The problem is the way they went about it. Maybe they will find Aladdin's Lamp and use one of their wishes to make it into this supposedly super-awesome thing that everyone (including me) will grow to love. If they do, I sure hope they use the remaining wishes just as well on the rest of the major problems in SL. However, that's about as far as I am going to hope for the best when it comes to LL. Just been burned too many times from what I can see as nothing more than gross incompetence.

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