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An interesting bit of hypocrisy |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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09-01-2005 14:04
OK, I think I am about caught up now. For now, let me just say again, this group is not All About Anshe nor is it All About Prok. The points on the agenda are what the group is about. If you agree with those points, then join. That's what I did. coco _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Beau Perkins
Second Life Resident.
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,061
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09-01-2005 14:07
I don't claim to be for what the large majority of SL is concerned about. I claim to be for what this group is concerned about. No this group claims to be for justice for the entire populatiion. I did not ask about what you are there for personally I asked about the main spokesperson being the biggest land holder. Here is the group description "We believe in the empowerment of residents in the metaverse. We believe in the accountability of those who run the platform towards those who base their second lifes on it. We stand up against corruption, injustice and suppression." If they are for empowement of the residents, then the residents should have the pwer of who is running this very group. The rest of your answers remind me of something the writers for Bill Clinton would have wrote. You didnt answer any of my objections. _____________________
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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09-01-2005 14:09
The rest of your answers remind me of something the writers for Bill Clinton would have wrote. You didnt answer any of my objections. Please define what you mean by sex? _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.  |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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09-01-2005 14:12
Please define what you mean by sex? Well, that depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is...  I did not have sex with that hippo! _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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09-01-2005 14:15
I'm sorry but I'm having trouble getting past the horseblinders here...
On one hand Coco you're saying 'equality and inclusion' When 2 of your founders are saying 'inequality and exclusion' in no uncertain terms - it's in black and white, and its hard to refute words coming from the horses mouth. Kathy Yamamoto and Ulrika have both in the past suggested 'lobbying group' type ideas (albeit with much more input from the populus - and with a similar reaction from most people as here) - and the biggest nay sayer of all is the one forming the same thing.. although with less public input. The 'FIC' notion is a myth - theres no other way to put it.. both empirical evidence (such as 'the people vs the Elite nightclub') has shown this.. hell I personally have been listed amoung its ranks.. and the day that Philip or any Linden is 'swayed' by my 'standing' I'll strip naked on the Las Vegas Strip, insert a toilet roll in my backside and do the dance of the flaming arseholes! (I'll also take pictures and post them to the gallery). And yet the inventor of this myth is now wishing to create this self same ideal... ... the message is loud and clear to me : 'The concept is bad - unless of course it's mine' Siggy. _____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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09-01-2005 14:16
oh, NOW you take what Prok says seriously. I took my pot shots at him, he took his potshots at me. For the record, I spent a ridiculous amount of time debating his "litmis test" for content creators with him. My idea of a solution was 3 subgroups for a check and balance, kinda like a union for the 3 main groups 1) Consumer 2) Content 3) Land (i actually alphabatized because word counters would find fault if i listed in any other order) All open enrollment Prok has stated his version of being against content it is not my opinion, nor the opinion af all it is Proks opinion I don't think that is in line with what Philip requests or expects I am interested in government, the others are mostly interested in lobbying, hence this will NOT be and HAS NO INTENTION of being a governing group or a representative group. It is a "special interest" you saw the notecard of the defined objectives I agree with the basic objectives I joined for and am not going to press the matter on government. agree? join. don't? do nothing or join another group. This is the toned down type of response you should have posted to begin with. Your previous ingratiating and condecending posts basically sunk your ship before it set sail. Have fun with your new RPG. _____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people ! |
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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09-01-2005 14:17
:d :d :d :d :d YAY YAY!!! _____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people ! |
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Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
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09-01-2005 14:17
Was this a meeting of the SL Young Repubicans? My conclusion is that they decided the good of a few is more imprtant than the good of many.
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Richie Waves
Predictable
Join date: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,424
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09-01-2005 14:29
LOL! can I say the money and hours I pour in to make me more powerful? Woot!
Im POWERFUL!!!!!!! Ga'h...these people need a 3rd life _____________________
no u!
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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09-01-2005 14:35
You are all getting worked up over the wrong thing.
This is clearly just a special interest lobby group, the creature of Anshe and Prok. They had a private meeting with Phillip. How it happened and what was said, and who was invited and how is not important. What is important is that Phillip has endorsed the existence of special interest Lobby Groups, and pledged to hold meetings with them The only matter for concern is that he has clearly not thought through the full implications, skating around the question of whether they should be publically open, whether the discussions should be public etc etc. Uncertain what rules to lay down. Personally I think he may become inundated with newly formed groups, and requests for his time, but on his own head be it. The important thing is to calm this outcry about "not in my name" by making it absolutely clear that this particular group has NO preferential position, no license to represent anyone but themselves, and never will have. In a way it is good that it is lead by two of the probably least acceptable residents for such "representational" purpose, one of whom could certainly not be described as a "resident in good standing" because of his continual appalling abuse of other residents which resulted in his forum ban. The other is simply too rich to represent the rest of us - her interests differ from ours. As special interest lobbying, I see nothing wrong with what they did. Indeed I find I share quite a view of their concerns, not that it matters. What we need now is simply this : We need urgent clarification of the rules for this new lobbying activity - a growth industry if I ever saw one. I suggest there should be no more such meetings until we have at least some clarification of such things as: 1 What criteria will the award of a meeting (eg with Phillip) be based upon ? Formal existence as a group ? Number of members ? Wealth ? Land ownership ? Sales ? Longevity ? 2 How is a meeting request to be submitted ? 3 Does there need to be a pre-submitted written agenda ? 4 Which meetings should be publically announced, and how ? 5 Who may attend ? 6 Which meetings should be post-notified worldwide, and with what info on proceedings 7 If any new info is obtained, wjether, how and where will it be made publically available ? 8 etc I am not suggesting that every detaill must be decided instantly. But the outcry we see here makes it clear that there is a huge groundswell of opinion against secret private meetings. We need a lobbying code of practice which LL will adhere to, and we must too. I have started drafting a proposal which I will share with anyone interested. At the minimum I see a) Every lobby group to be an SL group, and to be registered in a special public list b) All membership lists public, ditto a binding statement of objectives and interests, outside which discussions may not wander. c) Two categories of groups, public-open and private-invite. d) Official post-notification of all meetings. Worldwide pre-notification for the public-open ones, using at least the event system e) Public lobby groups run a forum, in which full transcripts of all meetings and procedings are published. I'm not sure what the reporting requirements should be for the private ones. Is it enough just to know the meetings happened ? Its my guess that if we can get the public lobby groups to work well, the experienced gained, and the rules formulated, might be helpful in eventually creating the holy grail. A (or a heirachy of) representative assemblies. Personally I think its a bit early for that, but we and the Lindens need to start feeling our way forward. A well-functioning, formally defined lobbying system might be a good way to put our mutual feet in the water. They learn and grow structures to talk to us, we do the same for them. _____________________
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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09-01-2005 14:36
The Metaverse Justice Watch is nothing more than a few concerned people getting together to lobby for issues such as justice and security for residents. o This makes us stakeholders. We are not merely tourists, users, consumers, players or customers. We live our second lifes here, and for some of us many aspects of our first lifes are dependent on our second lifes now. Anshe Chung: Whereas need to note that we are very much based on people who consider themselves stakeholder in SL Anshe Chung: So we are less representative of the "casual player" which of course we also meet in this world We're people with a major stake in SL. Look at the officers' list as you see most of the people who pay most of the tier in SL, and therefore pay a sizeable chunk of Linden Lab's revenue, including salaries. ... Stakeholders means those who are in the land and service businesses and some ordinary players who are even new to the game to have the same likeminded sense of purpose about *justice*. ... I personally am for not having the major content-creators in this group UNLESS they can agree [with my world view] or you disagree on any level, then just don't join the group. |
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Elle Pollack
Takes internets seriously
Join date: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 796
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09-01-2005 14:41
As for FIC - thats easy - it's a fictional group created by a single ex forum poster as a label for anyone they didn't like or agree with. Wrong. I've been called "feted" before (although I argue, incorrectly), and like I've said before, I'm on friendly terms with Prokofy -- sometimess agreeing with his ideas, sometimes not, sometimes engaging in IM debates over them. It's not an intentionaly mean-spirited label. _____________________
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"Ya'll are so cute with your pitchforks and torches ..." ~Brent Linden SL streams a world, can you also stream a mind? |
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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09-01-2005 14:46
Just as an aside - I have joined Prok and Anshe's group, since it is public, and since I happen to share a significant number of their stated concerns. Including the biggest and first - that SL is not a game, and business needs price and currency stability. I can separate issues from personalities.
I shall probably join any new Lobby Groups whose objectives I can substantially accept. And maybe some I can't. Nice to be informed, huh ? _____________________
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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09-01-2005 14:50
This is the toned down type of response you should have posted to begin with. Your previous ingratiating and condecending posts basically sunk your ship before it set sail. Have fun with your new RPG. Are you going to drive me out of SL? _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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09-01-2005 14:51
Are you going to drive me out of SL? Hardly. I was trying to make a point which must have parted your hair when it flew over your head. _____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people ! |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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09-01-2005 14:52
Just as an aside - I have joined Prok and Anshe's group, since it is public, and since I happen to share a significant number of their stated concerns. Including the biggest and first - that SL is not a game, and business needs price and currency stability. I can separate issues from personalities. I shall probably join any new Lobby Groups whose objectives I can substantially accept. And maybe some I can't. Nice to be informed, huh ? _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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09-01-2005 14:56
Are you going to drive me out of SL? I found the majority of your posts in this thread rude, aggressive, provocative, and indeed guilty of firing personal insults at others. I used the button to abuse report them as such, and I think if you re-read them more calmly you might even agree that I acted fairly and correctly in doing so. _____________________
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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09-01-2005 14:58
I don't think anyone would want that Mulch, but since you ask: I found the majority of your posts in this thread rude, aggressive, provocative, and indeed guilty of firing personal insults at others. I used the button to abuse report them as such, and I think if you re-read them more calmly you might even agree that I acted fairly and correctly in doing so. /clap _____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people ! |
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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09-01-2005 14:58
STOP the presses!
I'm doing research for the book. Who has had sex with what Linden in invisibility mode and exactly what attachments/toys/balls were used? Was it male/female or... you know... Inquiring minds want to know! Screw politics, screw what the MJW/FUC wants... Give us the down and dirty! ------------------ ON TOPIC: StoneSelf is my hero for that wonderful collaborative post of "what was said" and "what you think we said".  _____________________
They give us new smilies
 but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless! |
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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09-01-2005 15:02
Well, Prokofy wrote a mile long diatribe on his blog a few days ago stating that it WAS a game... I try hard now not to read anything written by Prok, but I hear rumors that in-world he's quite nice (can it possibly be true ?). _____________________
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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09-01-2005 15:07
... What is important is that Phillip has endorsed the existence of special interest Lobby Groups, and pledged to hold meetings with them The only matter for concern is that he has clearly not thought through the full implications, skating around the question of whether they should be publically open, whether the discussions should be public etc etc. Uncertain what rules to lay down. ... What we need now is simply this : We need urgent clarification of the rules for this new lobbying activity - a growth industry if I ever saw one. I suggest there should be no more such meetings until we have at least some clarification of such things as: 1 What criteria will the award of a meeting (eg with Phillip) be based upon ? Formal existence as a group ? Number of members ? Wealth ? Land ownership ? Sales ? Longevity ? 2 How is a meeting request to be submitted ? 3 Does there need to be a pre-submitted written agenda ? 4 Which meetings should be publically announced, and how ? 5 Who may attend ? 6 Which meetings should be post-notified worldwide, and with what info on proceedings 7 If any new info is obtained, wjether, how and where will it be made publically available ? 8 etc I am not suggesting that every detaill must be decided instantly. But the outcry we see here makes it clear that there is a huge groundswell of opinion against secret private meetings. We need a lobbying code of practice which LL will adhere to, and we must too. I have started drafting a proposal which I will share with anyone interested. At the minimum I see a) Every lobby group to be an SL group, and to be registered in a special public list b) All membership lists public, ditto a binding statement of objectives and interests, outside which discussions may not wander. c) Two categories of groups, public-open and private-invite. d) Official post-notification of all meetings. Worldwide pre-notification for the public-open ones, using at least the event system e) Public lobby groups run a forum, in which full transcripts of all meetings and procedings are published. I'm not sure what the reporting requirements should be for the private ones. Is it enough just to know the meetings happened ? Its my guess that if we can get the public lobby groups to work well, the experienced gained, and the rules formulated, might be helpful in eventually creating the holy grail. A (or a heirachy of) representative assemblies. Personally I think its a bit early for that, but we and the Lindens need to start feeling our way forward. A well-functioning, formally defined lobbying system might be a good way to put our mutual feet in the water. They learn and grow structures to talk to us, we do the same for them. I think you are on track to the real issue here. This is totally new ground (and I think Philip wasn't Skating so much as trying to approach the concept fairly), and my perception is that the outrage is for 2 reasons: 1) Prok/Anshe 2) The intentions weren't diseminated when entering uncharted territory so it seems we are up to something when we are attmpting to enter new territory I like your suggestions, especially for a forum with transcripts. This is useful stuff. I respond much better to useful things then ranting and raving. regarding point c) I would say no private lobby groups at all. Opens up FIC type accusations and Philip made it clear everyone should have equal access. Good start, I hope you follow through and work with other residents to submit a formal lobby sub class and amounts to something useful to fascilitate deeper dialog with lindens (a town hall is 1 question per person, no follow up. Not exactly a dialog) _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
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09-01-2005 15:36
God help me, I read all 37 pages.
What an utter crock of shite this is.... IF Linden Labs is interested in fostering governance (not government, mind you, though in the end, it is usually much the same), they need to pull up on the reigns and not be so hasty to lay down with just anyone who comes along spouting a nice line. (Yes, the analogy works nicely, doesn't it?) The last thing this place needs is a freaking Star Chamber. Honestly, every time I think I may be judging Linden Labs too harshly, they royally fuck up like this and prove me right. I am so very tired of being right. _____________________
Just remember, they only care about you when you're buying sims.
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Shasha Suavage
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 6
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09-01-2005 15:40
personally I think this thread should be closed there is a lot of bashing out there ....and reporting a person ...well that is just childish....but do what you need to do....those of you that are bashing Mulch get so upset that he may be aggravated because of it....but he makes some great points if you would read and pay attention....but this is the truth...you dont want to because you enjoy the corruption of your own voices ...it was done in every game forums I have ever been on....there are going to be those who agree and those who disagree....but bashing is sad....state your greivance and be done with it ...no need to call names ....let those that judge be judged............blessed day all
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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09-01-2005 15:40
No this group claims to be for justice for the entire populatiion. I did not ask about what you are there for personally I asked about the main spokesperson being the biggest land holder. Here is the group description "We believe in the empowerment of residents in the metaverse. We believe in the accountability of those who run the platform towards those who base their second lifes on it. We stand up against corruption, injustice and suppression." If they are for empowement of the residents, then the residents should have the pwer of who is running this very group. The rest of your answers remind me of something the writers for Bill Clinton would have wrote. You didnt answer any of my objections. I answered the questions as best as I could, Beau. coco _____________________
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Jim Lumiere
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2004
Posts: 474
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09-01-2005 15:52
You cheeky monkey! Saying what I am thinking!  I'm currently a dwagon ... and a red one at that ... but Thanks |