But Hiro, none of us can join the group.
Thats because some idiot with an axe to grind started an officer recall on Anshe. We will have to find a work around and will post here.
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An interesting bit of hypocrisy |
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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09-01-2005 08:30
Thats because some idiot with an axe to grind started an officer recall on Anshe. We will have to find a work around and will post here. _____________________
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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09-01-2005 08:30
Totally. What a waste of a half hour to read it. |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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09-01-2005 08:32
On behalf of the entire SL community, I apologize most sincerely for having forced you to read this thread or any other thread that isn't of interest to you. F*ck that, I want L$ compensation for time lost! DAMNIT! _____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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Katt Kongo
M2 Publisher
Join date: 9 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,020
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09-01-2005 08:37
Beyond that, when is not wanting the press present not considered trying to keep something under wraps, i.e. hidden? I am unsure if I understand whether you are saying that the press should or should not have been allowed. Could you clarify before I tackle that? Yes, they were trying to "keep something under wraps." But you cannot assume that their hopes of keeping this out of the press' hands were bc of sinister motives. Allowed? No one can ALLOW or NOT ALLOW the press in SL anything, except perhaps LL. Some people in this group were of the opinion that the press should not be there; others, including Prok, felt that the press should be included. To clarify, members of ALL news organizations should have been there. If they weren't, that was not a reflection on the group, but more a reflection on the various news organizations. It is the responsibility of news organizations to find out what is happening; it is not the responsibility of ANY group to inform news organizations of meetings unless they are actively seeking publicity. I sincerely hope that clarifies things.  _____________________
The Metaverse Messenger
A real newspaper for a virtual world. Now with over 63,000 readers! http://www.metaversemessenger.com |
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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09-01-2005 08:37
God damned fucking power monkeys. Fuck. LF Yup. _____________________
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Katja Marlowe
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 421
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09-01-2005 08:42
Thank you Hiro for stating more elquently what my rage at Tacos antics prevented me from doing I repeatedly said I was not a spokesperson, but since I spoke up, poo poo on me sure I wasn't nice, but I wasn't nice to either I encourage people to join every other paragraph. If thet don't and would rather just whine and moan here fine but the fact that griefer tried to recall an officer and no one can join actually proves Prok right, but you won't hear anyone say that out loud here. I'm not sure I beleive I just said it, but the recall tools are flawed. And I also agree Hiro, that things happened so fast and there was so much information my head is still spinning. I haven't even slept much in several days, but you couldn't tell that by my crankiness or grammer or spelling could you? also, Hiro, can you verify that a member of the group and I debated at length about whether to be a short term special interest or a government as philip wanted. I would prefer a government, but I am the LAST one I would nominate More members decided on a special interest, limited to the outline of the notecard. Vote taken, I lost. They power brokers everyone is concerned with don't even want to govern. Join, take part. No one wants any secrets kept, we just didn't want it outed in the tabloid way Editorial did And if any members attempt to hijack this group for a persoanl agenda, I will scream foul louder than the rest of this forum. That's just me, I don't want no part of no stinking coup And this group was created on the fly, and we spent many many hours trying to figure out what to say once we had been granted an audience with the king. No one said we didn't want the group open to all. I suggested the press not be there, and this forum illustrates quite clearly why I'm not sorry I suggested it, nor voted. Was too easy too spin considering the personalities involved I also suggested a linden sim for the purpose of transparency and public participation, as people waste their time complaining on forums or using votes for "porneys" a chamer for debate/discussion and a poll for voting. how does that conflict with open to everyone? the ineffectiveness and waste of time the current voting tool is totally apparent Once again Hiro, ty for providing a mellow, cool alternative to the insanity and paranoia. The notecard and meeting speak for itself really. Its the intense dislike some people have for others that have caused this reaction. Damn, this is almost better than British comedy. |
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Cory Edo
is on a 7 second delay
Join date: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,851
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09-01-2005 08:43
Do you not own a ton of land? Are you a casual player? Is SL a game for you? Then you very well could be a tourist in Second Life! And if you are, you're probably wondering what the hell you should be wearing. Well here's a little example of some of the many clothing options available to you: I do believe I asked you not to post RL pictures of me. If you tell anyone which one in the photo I am, I'm filing an AR report against you. YOU WERE WARNED. |
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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09-01-2005 08:45
I do believe I asked you not to post RL pictures of me. If you tell anyone which one in the photo I am, I'm filing an AR report against you. YOU WERE WARNED. I'm also selling them on ebay. _____________________
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Javier Puff
Xcite!
Join date: 7 Jul 2005
Posts: 86
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09-01-2005 08:46
Welcome to a public relations nightmare. Any possibility of this group being in any way useful or functional is probably gone now. If it had even a shred of a chance to succeed before, that is now gone with the completely disastrous posts from some of that group on this thread. I'm completely shocked at the lact of tact these people exhibited
I have no doubt that SOME of the members of this group had excellent intentions, and probably still do. But perception IS reality, and right now the perception of this group stinks of favoritism and special interests and strikes people more about money and power than the goodwill of the community at large. This group can no longer succeed. No matter the good intentions, no matter how valid the agenda, it's the HIDDEN agena that people will see in every resulting action that this group generates. Thank god for the press and for the person who broke this story. Despite what others claim, THIS is what journalism and the freedom of the press is about. It's a sanity check on those in power. I'm glad to see it's working well in Second Life and I commend those who are fulfilling that function. |
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Cory Edo
is on a 7 second delay
Join date: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,851
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09-01-2005 08:47
I'm also selling them on ebay. The fact that you set the "Buy Now" option at $0.23 was a particularily cruel twist of the knife, Ingrid. |
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Robin Linden
Linden Lifer
Join date: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 1,224
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09-01-2005 08:48
There are some very important points to note from the meeting transcript.
First, a group of residents contacted me and Philip and asked for a meeting to discuss several issues they were concerned with (listed in the notecard). We said sure, we'll be happy to meet with you, and I suggested the recruiting center as a location because of the big table there. It seemed like a good place for a sit down. Beyond that there was nothing symbolic about the choice of location. Second, please note Philip's response to the requests: - we'll be more than happy to work with a group of residents to discuss policy, design, or anything else, but the meetings must be open to anyone, and the proceedings and documents must be public. This desire for openness in both the discussion and the participation is why we will not use any NDAs. - any topic that we discuss should be in the form of a presentation which is itself a well-formed document that has already been passed around within the community, and has therefore been thought through and has received some support. Rather than worry about a small group of residents gaining an unfair position (i.e. FIC redux), let's think about the potential for engaging in deeper dialog about Second Life, with the caveats in place that I've described. _____________________
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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09-01-2005 08:51
Thats because some idiot with an axe to grind started an officer recall on Anshe. We will have to find a work around and will post here. Or is it to block open enrollment while they scramble to figure out what the hell to do? _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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09-01-2005 08:51
Or is it to block open enrollment while they scramble to figure out what the hell to do? Or is it someone hoping to create that impression? _____________________
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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09-01-2005 08:51
There are some very important points to note from the meeting transcript. First, a group of residents contacted me and Philip and asked for a meeting to discuss several issues they were concerned with (listed in the notecard). We said sure, we'll be happy to meet with you, and I suggested the recruiting center as a location because of the big table there. It seemed like a good place for a sit down. Beyond that there was nothing symbolic about the choice of location. Second, please note Philip's response to the requests: - we'll be more than happy to work with a group of residents to discuss policy, design, or anything else, but the meetings must be open to anyone, and the proceedings and documents must be public. This desire for openness in both the discussion and the participation is why we will not use any NDAs. - any topic that we discuss should be in the form of a presentation which is itself a well-formed document that has already been passed around within the community, and has therefore been thought through and has received some support. Rather than worry about a small group of residents gaining an unfair position (i.e. FIC redux), let's think about the potential for engaging in deeper dialog about Second Life, with the caveats in place that I've described. But, but... you will include the TOURISTS! /remove tongue-cheek. _____________________
They give us new smilies
 but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless! |
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Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
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09-01-2005 08:52
wow. took me a while to get this far... was it worth the time? Cory's logo and some of siggy's comments helped. Mulch's rantings did not - go get some sleep.
My overall reaction is to yawn. Philip and Robin listen to a lot of people and read a lot of our emails. The fact that they came to listen to this group is not surprising or that alarming. Philip was pretty non-committal in his response, other than to pat the group on the head, say "write it up for me" and emphasize that the process needed to be open. Kind of funny actually. So it's a lobbying group. Big deal. Anshe is all about growing and protecting her business, and I have no problem with that. I read/interpret all of her public comments with that fact in mind. I EXPECT people to lobby. At the end of the day, it's like any group handing LL some feature requests. LL will take what they like, and discard what they don't. I mean when you think about it, the group lacks any and all credibility -- largely because I wasn't there.  |
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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09-01-2005 08:52
There are some very important points to note from the meeting transcript. First, a group of residents contacted me and Philip and asked for a meeting to discuss several issues they were concerned with (listed in the notecard). We said sure, we'll be happy to meet with you, and I suggested the recruiting center as a location because of the big table there. It seemed like a good place for a sit down. Beyond that there was nothing symbolic about the choice of location. Second, please note Philip's response to the requests: - we'll be more than happy to work with a group of residents to discuss policy, design, or anything else, but the meetings must be open to anyone, and the proceedings and documents must be public. This desire for openness in both the discussion and the participation is why we will not use any NDAs. - any topic that we discuss should be in the form of a presentation which is itself a well-formed document that has already been passed around within the community, and has therefore been thought through and has received some support. Rather than worry about a small group of residents gaining an unfair position (i.e. FIC redux), let's think about the potential for engaging in deeper dialog about Second Life, with the caveats in place that I've described. All well and good Robin and I'm all for deeper dialog about SL but I want your official reaction to statements like this Anshe Chung: This is what we feel makes us stakeholders. More like you and in contrast to e.g. merely tourists, users, consumers, players etc _____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people ! |
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Katja Marlowe
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 421
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09-01-2005 08:53
WTF are you quoting me on that? I 'm the one that didn't attend the town hall meeting, and arguing your point!... I work at that time too, and I'm objecting to being called a lazy shite because I work rather than attend a friggin town hall meeting! I think Mulch is the person your referring to.... I'm a second rate citizen like you, handing him back his own language. --- editing --- I'm sure that you just misquoted that... seems we're on the same page on this (reading your later posts) So eh... if thats the case, no harm no foul. Siggy. Eh. I guess I wasn't clear. Oops. The yes was in agreement to the post I was quoting on yours. Then I went on to further elaborate. Sorry about that Siggy, also no harm no foul. |
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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09-01-2005 08:54
- any topic that we discuss should be in the form of a presentation which is itself a well-formed document that has already been passed around within the community, and has therefore been thought through and has received some support. How is this possible? SL is so big now. To have any one group besides the Lindens talking about what best for Second Lifers just doesn't wash. They have no way of knowing what I'd like to see happen. So, does that mean I have to join the group otherwise it'll be understood that they're representing me? _____________________
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Digi Vox
Registered User
Join date: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 25
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09-01-2005 08:55
- any topic that we discuss should be in the form of a presentation which is itself a well-formed document that has already been passed around within the community, and has therefore been thought through and has received some support. Was there a presentation/well-formed document for the topic under discussion yesterday? Was that the notecard? Perhaps you could start a new forum for such documents so that they can easily be distributed, reviewed, and discussed by community members. _____________________
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Jsecure Hanks
Capitalist
Join date: 9 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,451
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09-01-2005 08:55
They'll eventually let anyone join, and the group will be shown to be benign...
But while that's going on they'll create a second, secret group, and be more careful with that one then the current one. They'll continue with their original plans, which none will admit to, and hope that this time they can keep it all under wraps. |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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09-01-2005 08:57
There are some very important points to note from the meeting transcript. First, a group of residents contacted me and Philip and asked for a meeting to discuss several issues they were concerned with (listed in the notecard). We said sure, we'll be happy to meet with you, and I suggested the recruiting center as a location because of the big table there. It seemed like a good place for a sit down. Beyond that there was nothing symbolic about the choice of location. Second, please note Philip's response to the requests: - we'll be more than happy to work with a group of residents to discuss policy, design, or anything else, but the meetings must be open to anyone, and the proceedings and documents must be public. This desire for openness in both the discussion and the participation is why we will not use any NDAs. - any topic that we discuss should be in the form of a presentation which is itself a well-formed document that has already been passed around within the community, and has therefore been thought through and has received some support. Rather than worry about a small group of residents gaining an unfair position (i.e. FIC redux), let's think about the potential for engaging in deeper dialog about Second Life, with the caveats in place that I've described. Unlike the "FIC" this is a tangible group, organized by the person who invented, and feverishly promoted the "interesting myth". Do you not see the ramifications? Are you planning on acting upon this group's recommendations about employee conduct policy? Are you indicating that from this point forward, any and all groups can have you and Philip sit down and hear our issues? Is something lacking in the Town Hall format which has caused this shift? _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
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09-01-2005 09:04
Philips response is to place his own NDA on it by saying he'll only publish the parts he feels acceptable to be released to everyone. Actually, that doesn't surprise me at all. Part of the "Linden Handbook" are doubtless a number of things confidential to the company that they quite reasonably wouldn't want out. I just trust the relatively neutral stands of the Lindens (whose main interest is keeping the grid a going concern) over the biased ones of others. _____________________
Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff |
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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09-01-2005 09:08
My god. I take a break from reading this board and come back to discover that Humpty Dumpty is real, The Who were right ("Meet the New Boss"  and after months of standing on his wooden crate in Hyde Park, screaming endlessly about hidden conspiracies, Prokster has joined forces with Anshe.Sorry, but I ran out of popcorn after page 3 of this thread. What kept going round and round in my head was how utterly right Clay Shirky was about all this -- if one inner core group fails, another will take its place. Prok used to call BS on me about that, but the incredible irony seems to be that he's helped make it come true. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. haha. It's like some beautifully hideous intricate origami... no wait, better analogy... it's like an onion. The more the layers get peeled back the funnier it gets and the more I tear up.  _____________________
 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Beryl Greenacre
Big Scaredy-Baby
Join date: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,312
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09-01-2005 09:08
All polemics, claimed intentions, varying interpretations, and semantics aside, I think it is wrong for LL to host a meeting with one specific group, even if said group was 100% honest about their intentions. If the situation were reversed, the top folks in this group would be screaming their heads off, and nothing anyone can say will convince me otherwise. I joined this group last night thinking it would be good to have more people involved to make things more transparent; but, like Siggy said, there is probably no way in hell I'd get invited to a meeting of any importance, I'm sure. I wish more people had been able to join before this officer recall was instigated. It's also interesting to note that Ulrika, the primary proponent of player-propagated government in SL of late, has recently been conspicuously absent from SL (giving birth, as she has noted in forums). Could it possibly be that this meeting was timed to coincide with her absence? Ulrika has been publicly at odds with several of the officers in this group. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just making an observation. What I fear is that, like it or not, SL will get dragged into some sort of player-run government, and it will be done in a back-room style like this. Unless those of us who are not pro-player-government (like me) make an effort to keep an eye on what's going on, it will creep up on us. I applaud Editorial Hare for having the courage to bring this all to light, and I hope the Lindens are mindful of the precedent they are setting in this instance. _____________________
Swell Second Life: Menswear by Beryl Greenacre
Miramare 105, 82/ Aqua 192, 112/ Image Reflections Design, Freedom 121, 121 |
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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09-01-2005 09:10
Problem is didn't king philip say there was only one gov't and it was LL not so long ago? Apparently that has changed. Taking one meeting with Anshe's group does not a change in policy make. I'm certain Philip understands the vast majority of residents of SL want information directly from LL - not from any group... The interplay between Robin and Philip was interesting to read - not quite "good cop, bad cop" but I have full faith they know exactly how to handle this One-Trick-Pony Group. _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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