Certain 'communities' getting leeway?

Maybe the press would be better if it were called:

Something Old
Something New
Something Borrowed
Something Blue...

But then again calling yourself SO,N,B,B -- someone will probably say you're calling them a Sonbitch....

Btw - Photoshop Phriday f*cking rocks!

Siggy.

hay guys its not something nice

(If you havent noticed, its really not worth argueing anymore. The only people left accusing me of this are those who either 1. De-li-be-rate-ly misunderstand me. or 2. Havent read the thread, so)


Hay guys its not something nice

arguing.

Oh, I agree, since you have provided nothing to back up your snipes. You've been shown to be wrong with no explanation to defend himself.


Say it with me. De-li-be-rate-ly.

Now, once again, I ask you to explain how? Reiterating that you're misunderstood and not explaining how doesn't prove your point, it just makes you seem completely oblivious.

I said SA has a bad rep in SL, that W-Hat should disassociate itself from SA in order to solidify a good reputation in SL. WHAT IS SO WRONG WITH THAT? Huh?

Why can't you explain yourself?

Huh?

What's the matter? Are you upset that you are full of crap?

Next time, don't you DARE accuse me of being misguided unless you can back up your facts. Now go back to SA where people might care.

Let's address one point at a time, shall we?

What you did was to paint the SA community as revolving around "prepubescent nonsense" - basically, because the site is called SomethingAwful, it must be intrinsically devoid of any good qualities, or so you reasoned. When I pointed out that we have an established track record of community service, instead of acknowledging that we are NOT all about "prepubescent nonsense," you tried to demean the value of our contributions by comparing us to mass murderers - as though our donations were somehow disingenuous, designed to cover up some imagined nastiness. SA forum members come from ALL walks of life. There are more goons than there are SLers; we are a VERY diverse group - and yet, while the SL community is widely varied, goons are somehow incapable of being anything but a bunch of assholes?

You were wrong about us, and instead of acknowledging it, you tried to spin us as jerks and then came within three millimeters of Godwin. Who exactly needs to grow up, here?

You ARE misguided. SA is a MASSIVE community that has had a very complex life over the last five years, and yet you pigeonhole us - like you have any idea what you are talking about. You don't. You aren't a member. All you have is what some griefers did when they came here more than half a year ago, plus what a few retards have done recently. The VAST MAJORITY of us get along FINE with furries on a REGULAR BASIS, but that doesn't stop you from comparing us to bin Laden.

Hey!


((edited))

Thread ends here --------------------------------------------------------------------(cut)

Title does denote focus. If I started www.hunsvalenisajerk.com, would it be a site promoting how cool you are? No.

But just because the focus is on something, doesn't mean it's the entirety. As I stated already, even the most loathesome people on earth have a track record of donating money to charitable organizations.

I don't need to acknowledge it. I never stated that every single little thing on that site is that way, just that, overall, that's what I viewed it as. And it is.

I can see how you'd think that, and that's specifically why I said:
"Edit: To clarify - I was using Saddam and Usama as extreme examples to prove a point, not to make that association. Like, if THEY can do nice things, so can anyone."

I made that extra point to clarify. And I honestly believe that Usama, however evil he may be, may have genuinely wanted to help orphans of his tribes. Whatever. The point is not to compare, but to prove a minor point by extreme.

The same logic would be saying: Since an item costs $50, certainly $1000000 would be enough to purchase it. Sure, $50 is totally not on the extreme of $1000000, but the point is proven. I was aiming to make an easy point, but in hindsight, I realize Usama is always a touchy subject and probably could have made my point in another way. I'm sorry.


I agree, they are capable of more. Consider that "goon" is a really stupid title to have if you expect people to be more than, well, a goon? A word that means thug?

But SA Goons specifically was made back in Spring to harass SLrs. The founders of the group and the overwhelming majority of the group were banned. The bottom line is that there is a supremely bad flavor associated with the goons, and with SA. If W-Hat wants to be rid of that bad flavor, they need to be rid of that association.

That, or they need to wage a large-scale positive publicity campaign, of which this clearly is not a good first step.


No, I was not wrong. What SA Goons did to SL's community was beyond reprehensible. I had friends in tears from what members did. W-Hat had been started as a seperate organization, and that's fine. NEVER did I see any sort of formal apology for what happened back in Spring. A few of you, here, can call "other members" jerks, but none of you seem to want to take responsibility for something that we discovered was officially endorsed in the SA boards back in Spring.

The only people I said to grow up were the people who directly attacked me in this forum.
edit: and the person who used the "we didn't plan for it to happen" lame excuse.

Yes; and that individual was banned for his actions without restraint. I thought we settled this earlier.. What the hell are you still groping about?

And again, goddamnit.

"we didn't mean for it to happen"
"we didn't think it would happen"
"we didn't want it to happen"
"we didn't _____ _____ _____"

ARE NOT THE SAME AS "We didn't know it would happen"

I HADN'T THE SLIGHTEST INCLINATION THAT MUD WAS GOING TO DO WHAT HE DID. MEANING I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

So kindly get off my ass now. Thanks.

hiro, tell me when your marriage with ignorence will take place. You two really seem to be in love!

Again. Do some research.

Darkwing, your original post was completely misleading and omited the most crucial parts of the story. Through the post you have been deceptive and personally attacking.

If you really feel that a member did wrong, the post would have read,

"W-Hat apologizes for one group member's stupid actions."

So far all it seems you, darkwing, are interested in is avoiding responsibility. Look, it's easy. Simply say, "We don't condone his actions".

Okay, I did:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=goon

goon
n. Slang
1. A thug hired to intimidate or harm opponents.
2. A stupid or oafish person.

Recommended reading is at the Wikipedia article:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something_Awful_forums


If there are any inaccuracies here, of course, submit the corrections -- ah the beauty of it.

Look, the bottom line is this:

If some members of a group do reprehensible things, and the group as a whole does not specifically and clearly denounce the actions and expel the members, then the group as a whole is showing approval for the actions.

SA has never denounced what happened in Spring. Therefore, it officially condones those actions.

W-Hat is associated with SA.

W-Hat, therefore, also condones those actions.

Should W-Hat disassociate with SA, then it shows it does not condone.

The same effect could be achieved if SA were to publicly (here) state that what happened in Spring, and what happened now, is unacceptable, and expel the members internally.

Ok, so if hiro's logic is correct.

Grimmy moonflower griefed in spring.

Nobody in SL has officalled denounced what he did.

So therefore, all of SL condones his actions.

I do appreciate you responding to my argument, Anne, rather than ignoring it.

I'm not familiar with that case you mention. But if Grimmy indeed do something serious against Community Standards, and he was neither punished by the Lindens nor spoken out against by the community-at-large, then yes, it would be condoning actions.

Martin Luther King Jr. - "Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere". Silence is approval.

But, you tell me - since I don't know the case with Grimmy - what did happen?

(Of course, if it were just minor griefing... it's just called "not sweating the small stuff". But what happened with SA Goons in Spring was major)

Internet - serious business.

Like I said, I don't know that story well enough. Maybe I was living under a rock at the time.

That is an incredibly simplistic thing to say. You don't even know why it's called somethingawful.com, so let me clue you in. Richard Kyanka (AKA Lowtax) came up with the domain name completely at random, sometime around 1998 I believe. It was a place for him to post his writings, nothing more; an E/N site designed for him and a few of his friends to laugh at. At the time, he had no idea that he would eventually be the head administrator of one of the largest and best forums on the internet - it just happened to work out that way.

You have already demonstrated beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt that you have no idea what SA is all about. Your assertions that SA is somehow "loathsome" are as simplistic as what you stated above about how "title denotes focus."

<Hiro Pendragon> SA is prepubescent.
<Hiro Pendragon> Not every single little thing on SA is prepubescent.
<Hiro Pendragon> I view SA as, overall, being prepubescent.
<Hiro Pendragon> SA is prepubescent.


Congratulations, Goon information minister!

...Which you would not have had to do, had you been more clever than to predicate your argument on SA being nothing but a bunch of scalawags (which is no more the case than it is for any other really large, heterogeneous group.)


?????


AFAIK, the term is quite old, dating back to the days when the SA forums were no better than the Steam forums, or any other mediocre forums you can name. The moniker is not likely to change, even though it does not literally portray what we are all about.

Or, we could let people judge us by our deeds. The original jackasses have been permanently banned from SL, and probably wouldn't want to come back even if they could, as they are not the type of people who understand SL. Furthermore, we are not going to dissociate ourselves from SA. We have no reason to.

Some black people abused me for many years when I was growing up, but I don't blame every black person for what a few did. I don't go banging on my roommate's door, demanding that he apologize for that one time I was pushed into a mud-hole back in '93.

Endorsed by whom, exactly? And why should we apologize for what some permabanned members did? We didn't tell them to do any of that stuff, they did it on their own. And they got banned for it. And we are not shedding a tear for them, or cutting new ones any slack.

Here are some notes I've taken about the thread, if any of you have fallen asleep...

Every cloud has it's sliver lining, ever rose has its thorn.

Goons hate furies (that other furies hate).

People that hate furies are fucking stupid. <---possible Freudian slip?

Not all Goons hate furies.

A Goon dressed up as a furry to show how furies get hugs and kisses for doing bad things even though he wasn't a furry but looked like one but that's OK to judge people by their looks or if you think they are part of a community that you think does things you don't think are right... I think.

However, you are not allowed to judge a Goon because they are a Goon.

No wait, yes you are.

No wait, no you're not.

But hey guys it's not something nice.

But it is.

Even though it's not.

Goons are horrible people, Goons are saints.

Furies are victims, furies are sick.

Goons should be nicer.

Goons are nice.

Goons help people.

That doesn't matter, you're Goons.

Goons did terrible things in the past.

Not all Goons are bad.

I didn't mean for the bullet to kill him and I didn't know the bullet would kill him are two different things.

Even though they have the same outcome.

You are guilty by association.

You are guilty until proven innocent.

Don't judge Goons by what they've done in the past.

Judge Goons by their deeds.

It's friggin' HILARIOUS if someone believes a lie.

The internet is not serious business when you're ass isn't in a sling.

If you say something that conflicts with something else you have said, you are a loser. That senario does not apply to me though.

Now that my nose is firmly up in the air you may all feel free to plant your foot (or paw) prints all over my rear-end.

Only if that person is the only one who took the lie seriously

That's why I said "someone" and not some people.

I didn't say SA was loathesome. I said Saddam and Usama were. Please don't misquote me.


When an organized group's FORUM promotes a planned attack on a large group of people in a specific community, based SOLELY on one aspect of the target people, and then members of the group go and HARASS and are BANNED from said community, and then there is no apology from the group at large, I don't think highly of the group at large, yes.

If I started a group, even a large group, and I found out that a subgroup had formed that harassed people, I'd kick them out and apologize for their actions. The SA Goons in SL proclaimed themselves to represent SA. SA has never apologized for their actions.

How much more clear can I make this?


Am I missing something? Are you saying that somethingawful.com predates the English language word "goon" that dates back centuries? Last time I checked 99.999% of the population thinks "thug" when they hear "goon" and not "somethingawful.com".

But have they been banned in SA? No. So, I judge SA by the deeds that they accept these "original jackasses" as having done nothing wrong. Whether or not the Lindens banned them has nothing to do with SA's position on whether or not what they did was acceptable behavior. It absolutely was not.


I can't believe you actually pulled the race card. But since you pulled it, I'll use it toward my argument.

The black community, NAACP, and great black leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr. have spoken out against abuse and violence. Ergo, they HAVE spoken out against the individuals who abused you, and shown that it is not acceptable behavior.

edit: And, you missed the most obvious difference - people don't choose to be black. People do choose to associate with SA. If they don't like what SA supports, then they can leave. If one person doesn't approve of what their race at large does, they can't exactly change their race.


Banned from Second Life, but not from SA. Not even an apology. They were called "SA Goons" and acted as representatives. Never did SA say, "Hey, these jackasses don't represent us". Never did SA say, "Hey, these guys are idiots, the rest of us aren't like that." Further, discussion and planning of this event went on in the SA forum, and to my knowledge these threads were not locked or deleted / edited.

You say that now that it was a minority of people, but it's a bit after the fact, and I don't believe you're someone in authority of SA. It's not as if SA were apologizing, it's just you personally.

Okay, another example:

Let's say a NYPD cop goes and shoots some innocent person while in uniform. Let's say the cop is prosecuted in a federal court and goes to jail. Naturally, the NYPD would kick the cop off the force and publicly denouce that cop's actions.

SA would be the NYPD, the cop would be the SA Goons, the uniform would be the group in SL called "SA Goons" - they were wearing the SA uniform, so to speak. The Lindens were the federal court, and indeed, they were punished by being banned - going to jail, in this analogy.

So, following the analogy, the SA should have "kicked them off the force", but they didn't. The members were not ejected, and no public denouncing of the sa goons' actions was given.

If I have any specific facts wrong, please do correct me.

The Goons who have been posting in this thread haven't been about "understanding" so I don't think they're about to start any time soon. Whole lot of pride and immaturity keeping them from any level of dialectic thinking.

"Hay guys its not called something nice"--repeating this over and over and neglecting all else said makes you look like a ten year old. Keep representin', "Anne."

Jesus, whats with all the twisting of words. Can't we just have a civil conversation? Huns wasn't pulling the race card, as you put it, he was just using his experience as an example. You should not tar all members of a group/race/whatever with the same brush.

As far as 'official' SA announcements, please keep perspective, SA isn't this organisation dedicated to control of internets, it's just a forum, a large forum tes, but please don't overinflate what it is for added drama. There will be no bannings or announcements from the SA forums as Lowtax and the admins don't give a shit what we do in some stupid game, they run the forums, thats their business, anything outside of that is down to the people responsible.

I in no way speak on an official capacity for SA or W-Hat, but if you got a problem with us then please, come down to Baku and hang out, just quit fuming for a while and chill, theres no need to be at each others throats.