Please have a backbone, Linden Lab

In other words, we should encourage LL to ignore its own TOS and turn SL into a free-for-all, totally eschewing its stated community goal of a peaceful, tolerant environment?

Sorry, that's not what I want to pay LL for. I get enough of that in RL thank you, without paying extra.

Maybe it's just me, but 14 pages of a thread about this matter alone (and I'm sure this is neither the first thread of its kind nor the last) would suggest that you AREN'T getting what you "want" to pay LL for, and that at this rate, you probably never will.

I agree with some of your points here Clarence and have presented some arguments earlier in the thread. Another issue that Cristiano raised though in his initial post is that apparently Linden Labs are not responding adequately to RL death-threats.

Admittedly there are some difficulties with establishing these in SL. For example, if someone says, "I'm going to hack your SL account, find out where you live and then come and kill you and your family with a ball-peen hammer" that's a pretty clear RL death-threat. But if they say something more vague like, "I'm going to shoot you in the face, SLNickname" it could be interpreted as an RL or SL threat.

In any case, although there are many free-speech advocates in SL - like myself - I haven't yet heard any resident say that Linden Labs should cast a blind eye to RL death-threats. And if LL are responding inadequately to those, as Cristiano claims, that is a problem that needs to be looked at.

-- Neal Stewart

I don't want LL to have a backbone, I want them to have a cranium. There's a difference between griefers and intelligent mischeifemakers. I had quite good fun yesterday teleporting a greedy club owner into a cage (With the teleport message "I have a LOT of money for you!" before interrogating them and convincing them that i would blow up the club. I believe that this type of behaviour adds "flavour" to Second Life, and mischeif with no malicious intent is, well, not malicious!
As for political stuff, I don't think it should be thought about too much. But I don't want it to be a taboo subject.

*Note: It is important to remember that the club owner ACCEPTED the teleport and eventually saw what I was doing and started to laugh.

I am asuming that you agree that racism and national-socialism fall squarely into the category that we can agree should be labelled "evil". If so, then we agree. If not, then why not?

I'm not going to get dragged into a philisophical argument on what is good and what is evil, but there are acts and ideologies that will cause harm without caring that they do so (or even revelling in it), as this is essential to their very existance. Such acts and ideologies may safely be considered evil, without any need to go anywhere near the grey are, I reckon.

Right on, Buster!

Neal, I would contend that LL is not responding adequately to Cristiano and that is his real beef.

Until otherwise told, I am content with letting SL deal with these issues as they see fit. Since some of these related to threats may involve criminal matters, no one should be reading a play-by-play as to what is going on through the forums.

Hella cool, Stephen

I guess there are two ways of looking at forum threads, Cristiano.

I tend to think of them as constructive conversations between people, which may range around the original topic. Maybe you think of them as precisely focussed responses to the first poster, which can be chastised for moving away from what he intended. I don't think the first poster owns a thread, or can be the judge of what is a "diversion". Perhaps others disagree ?

In my opinion, in any discussion of the degree of stringency LL should apply in exercising control, the topics of value judgements, morality, freedom of speech and action, must inevitably arise and are not sufficiently offtopic to be squashed.

You may remember an earlier post pointing out how the issue of disciplining harrassers was being confused with the issue of free speech.

In my opinion it is fine for us to discuss both here. Indeed, it may be important. Because keeping them separate, and understanding the difference between them, is a critical matter.

I'm sure EVERYONE here supports strong action against those who persecute others. Surely that is so obvious, its almost trivial to discuss, and I HAVENT SEEN A SINGLE POST HERE DISAGREEING.

What people take issue with, is some posters muddying the water by trying to use this as an excuse to ask for increased intolerance against people with views different from their own. People who keep themselves to themselves, and interfere with no-one.

Happens to be that my club was bombed twice tonight. Once by c4 and the second time by a rocket. Both times the club was wiped out and all of the guests were thrown all over the sim.

I wrote reports about these people and so did all of the witnesses. Several people identified the bombers. I HOPE Linden Labs bans these folks forever...including their credit cards!

Sorry this happened to you Fiorella.

If you haven't already, please vote at the thread in my tag-line below. Maybe eventually there will be enough of an impact for LL to change.

Who would of thought something as basic as having the will to deal with intolerance would become an issue with them?

National Socialism is just another political system, and not all that evil, really. It was actually pretty successful until Hitler started throwing all the butter money into guns, after skimming all the cream off the top. Workers' rights, retirement benefits and protection of the environment were all important issues in Germany during the thirties. Most of the economic recovery programs followed in the US during the depression were copies of things being done in Germany and other national-socialist nations.

Funny, I don't judge French or Romanian friends by the fact that their governments rounded up and assisted in the wholesale slaughter of their Jewish populations, or the mass murders that the French committed in Vietnam and North Africa in a vain attempt to hang on to their colonies. I don't judge Brits for the beastly way they continue to carry on in Northern Ireland or the fact that they brutally murdered millions of people in their own colonies. You can say what you like about the things that go on in Guantanamo, but they do seem to have stopped terrorist attacks in the US, which I consider to be worth any price. We demand our government keep us safe. Sometimes that safety carries an ugly pricetag.

lol that one really got ya huh?

well i see fiorella has already posted here to let linden labs know that we are upset about this.

what fio failed to mention was that this also destroyed property ruining several animated items and totally losing some others. guess what? one of the people responsible for the attack is logged in tonight enjoying herself while fiorella is having to replace the lost and broken things which do equal real life money for her. this person got told to not do that again and gets to go on their merry way while fiorella has to replace about 15 real dollars worth of items for the club that she owns. its not right and i hope that maybe the lindens will grow some balls and do something instead of patting these people on the butt asking them nicely to not do things they know they shouldnt do in the first place.

im pissed off.