Please have a backbone, Linden Lab

There ain't no tongue there either, you noseless, tongueless freak!

People *are* aware that many concentration camps are now museums aren't they?

How do we know someone's motives for building something? Unless they say people are just presuming...

God Bless America - why oh WHY does this kind of thread on these forums ALWAYS get turned into some kind of 'Freedom of Speech' crusade?

Some information you may not be aware of.............

1.This is'nt America.

2.This is NOT a public domain.

Lets get something straight here ok? Linden Labs dont NEED a reason,good or otherwise,to kick you out of this world - they own it.All this requires is something thats very very simple - it just needs someone with enough balls to take a stand and say NO!,enough is enough.

I've seen garbage in this game that would not be tolerated in ANY other realm/world/game I've ever played online and one of those games is World War 2 Online - mention nazi and your history - and thats in a WWII game!

I dont pay money to be abused - racially,religiously,sexually or any other 'ally' you can come up with and I'm one of many who are getting utterly sick of the crap that goes with this game.

The tools included for dealing with any kind of moron/lunatic/griefer who comes onto or around your land in this game are piss poor to say the least,then you call a Linden and that service is even worse.I realise of course that it's not their fault,they are as limited as we are in dealing with these kind of people - AND THATS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD.

We're not asking if it's right,we're not asking if it's politically correct,we're not asking anything other than CC/ISP bans be brought into effect against some very VERY obnoxious people.To cut a long story short what I want to know is this.....are Linden Labs going to make this a place where people can log on and be relativily free to enjoy their time online or are they going to carry on allowing griefers to use multiple accounts and to feel certain in the knowledge that very very little they do in this game is going to get them banned.

Linden Labs are light years behind other games in this respect - I even know of a game that has banned msn/Yahoo/AOL e-mail addys when you create an account as well as enforcing CC/ISP bans and maintaining a healthy prescence in their game of people who are there to help.

Stand up and be counted Linden Labs.

Erm.. I'm not in the United States - I'm a Brit.

not the people here, they absolutely will not bend when it comes to anything perceived as intollerant to what they hold as sacred, if you mention slavery,nazi's, etc you must be wiped off the map, as there is no leeway, so give up the free speech arguement, anything that hints of slavery,nazism etc is OBVIOUSLY not historical is is OBVIOUSLY hate speech and MUST be destroyed, the masses have spoken, don't try to use obviously hatefully imagery as a joke as that makes you a bigot, don't do anything except nod your head and chant the party line...

you would so hate it here in the midwest usa, real life nazi's on one corner, politically correct freaks on the other, god forbid you are an artist as they both hate them....

Ever the gentleman, Cris. Sorry for sounding so crabby. Comes of having to sit in an office while it's such a beautiful day outside....

Yeah for Sox! I totally agree.

I want to add that these people on their 'free speech' crusade should maybe put their efforts into making a difference in the real world.

Here's a link to Amnesty International.....

www.amnesty.org

After reading 7 pages worth of this stuff I have to jump in. I know it'll come off that Bruno is once again being a contrarian but we need to get our focus back on-track.

First, Cris' messages on this generat topic have focused on two things. Direct threats and attitudes/behaviors that are not part of mainstream "decent' thinking. When direct threats are made against any person they should be treated and dealt with by Linden in a serious manner. I do not feel Linden deals with threats properly. Since my arrival I have felt that their attorneys are reminding them to be vague and don't commit to a position. They seem to run a mostly tight ship on these boards but even here we have seen different people receive different treatment.

A few people have mentioned that LL is a private company and as such they may set whatever rules they like. LL can establish rules however they would not be able to get away with an ambiguous set of rules that allows them to say, toss me because I tell everyone I don't like sushi yet allow Cris to stay even though he says he doesn't like sauerbraten. BTW - I love sushi and have no idea of Cris' opinion on sauerbraten so don't judge us. LOL

For many of you to be satisfied, they would have to spell out what those rules are. As I have said dozens of times, this won't happen.

Should they have a rule that says, "No cross burning allowed?" Well, should it be narrowed down to everyone may burn a cross except for those wearing Klan uniforms? And does the Klan uniform mean the robe/sheet thing with the pointy hat? If that is the case, is the Klan uniform banned completely? And if so, what happens to the geek who sets up a South Park gallery and has a picture of Mr. Garrison and Mr. Hat in Klan uniforms?

That's just one scenario. Look, we can and should deal with threat makers. They should be tossed. Period! They and their alts should be purged. However, reality is such that you cannot simply toss people or form juries of so-called peers to hang someone because they utter the offensive term du jour or because they wear or display something we decent folk do not like. Sometimes I wish we could but it ain't going to happen anytime soon.

See......utterly wrong.I can hold an intelligent conversation with anyone,I have superb knowledge of world history and a degree in American History 1700-1900, but I know the difference between conversation and ranting.I know the difference between dry humour and intolerance,I know the difference between making a glib remark and making a threat.

Come to my club in SL - EVERY walk of life is represented there,gay,furry,D/S you name it they're in there.I'm far FAR from intolerant and I'm a firm beleiver in freedom - but thats freedom for EVERYONE and I choose NOT to have either myself or my friends subjected to some of the garbage in this game.

Ask yourself just one question - why doesnt the griefer play FPS games online like WWII Online,BF 1942,Call of Duty - games that channel aggresion? I'll tell you why,they dont want competition they want to victimise.They dont WANT someone who can fight/talk back they want to ruin whatever it is YOU perceive as fun.

As for myself I'm all but done with SL I think, it's just become like I'm at work except my bosses dont support me in what I do. I wade through the refuse of human society in my job - I'd rather hoped I could escape it in SL.

Because I WAS there and I ASKED them. Do I need to repeat the racist comments made by them as proof before Im labelled as being ignorant of history or not knowing their motives?

Wrong. In fact I never reported the person Im discussing even though I was offended by it. Cut the drama. People arnt all 1 way or the other.

And I'd like to add that your statement is both arrogant and uninformed. I think free speech is incredibly important and has done many things to change the world. A state that can't express opposition nor speak out about injustices, is a state doomed to facism and dictatorships. And you have no idea what any of us "crusaders" do to help change the world for the better.

So if I have a private support group for women that anyone can join and some guy joins and starts being an ass and begins violating the rules of behavior I set aside for my support group, would I be squashing his right to free speech if I kick him out? This is LL's group and they can do what they want and it has nothing to do with anyones right to free speech. We all have a right to speak out against or for things we see in game until such a time LL removes us from their world. And if I get removed Im not gonna declare my right to free speech has been removed. I will declare it a victory for LLs right to have their own group.

But arnt the people you feel are trampling on free speech simply speaking out themselves about injustices they feel they've seen? Does this mean they should not speak on this issue anymore to preserve free speech? If so then you are trampling on their right to free speech.

Ahh..the paradox. But if they speak out about free speech, and their wishes come to pass, they will no longer be able to speak out against the free speech speakers who wanted them to have the right to speak out against free speech as part of the free speech rights.

Say that 30 times fast!

And never did I say they didn't have the right to thier opinion and the right to speak it. I just disagreed with what he said, or the way he said it..

Heh, I was sneaky and deleted my message. Sometimes I just like to post it, then reread it. Often I'll delete it when I feel it might be taken wrong or in bad light (unless I want bad light).

How the heck did you delete the whole damn thing? I thought I was going bonkers..err..well more bonkers that is..

I did not know that, in fact I was talking about another (similar) thread where someone flew off the handle as someone else put some x'd out rainbow flags on some property and I asked if that was considered 'hate speach' (as opposed to just being tasteless and crass) and I was labeled a bigot for just asking the question, so if I was sarcastic here, it's because I was slammed over there.

Hi Unhygienix. I totally agree with you here. We're spot on! Gwynneth Llewelyn told me that Philip Linden had actually said that this was the plan for 2006/2007. As I understood it. Apparently it is mentioned in an old townhall meeting posted in the forums, but I haven't come across it yet. Does anybody know where it is or anything else about this?

-- Neal Stewart

Hi Sox. What sorts of tools do you think would be an improvement? What abilities should you have?

-- Neal Stewart

Has nobody noticed ?
The caption to the KKK photo that kicked this all off ?

"found this on a guys wall"

So this, the only solid evidence presented, was not in a public place, was not being pushed down anyones throat, might even have been a snap from a little anti-racist enactment. It probably wasn't, but on the evidence we cant know for sure.

Isn't almost all this stuff just a matter of degree? Isn't it culturally relative?

Like the African Anglicans being deeply upset by homosexual Bishops? Are they wrong? Must they agree with America or be damned as prejudiced ?

I applaud the Lindens for trying hard to keep out of all culturally relative matters of opinion. How else can SL be available to the world community? How about Palestine? Do you know how half the world views American partiality there?

What if someone started some history classes explaining what was happening in Palestine from the Arab viewpoint? Or just built an accurate 3d animated model of the population movements there over the last 70 years (even without the slightest comment)? It could be hugely educational. But anything capable of being interpreted as criticism of Israel would be met by screams of "anti-semitism" and demands to ban. How should SL handle this?

The only way for SL is not to involve itself against any belief system or viewpoint. Which it normally does admirably.

The only things SL should stamp on should be

a) One resident persecuting or attacking or harassing or stalking another.
b) The display in publicly visible places, of material denigrating insulting or belittling other residents or groups. By publicly visible, I mean not likely force itself into the notice of people who are not inside private homes, or who are not searching for such material in order to complain.

It does seem the Lindens need to work harder at this, if some of the cases are as clearcut as described.

Lets always remember that, unlike RL, one can always change ones identity, and move house, at little cost. I've already been driven out of one home by a "griefing tower", but I'd rather that, than ask for "thought police".

And I'd like to further add that you have gone all self righteous and missed my point.

Free speech and human rights are incredibly important in the world. SL is not the world, it's a room of servers owned by Linden Labs that we pay to be on. We are not citizens of a state but customers. The majority of customers don't want to pay to be harassed by what they consider offensive material, even it means limiting 'free speech'.

People are wasting their time here crusading for free speech, when their energies can be spent making a difference in the real world. Linden Labs are the judge and jury, they control the off button.

maybe LL understood most ppl here are just bunch ow whiner that keep biching about theyr neightbor tastes and think they have the right to ban one or another because he isnt looking right toward them.

Stop considering yourself as a non satisfied customer in demand, grow a bit

some here want sl to be so boringly safe and happy, THEY should be banned, just for killing any attempt of fun or bad thing to happend

" Linden Labs are the judge and jury, they control the off button."

Yes, Ewan. Thank goodness. But the point is that many people here are trying to persuade them to change their current admirable laissez-faire policy. Demanding that they start down the road of political correctness and cultural imperialism.

Since LL will be reading this, they need to know that some of us understand and applaud their current policy.

Also, I am one of those who believe that this sort of 3d metaphor is the future of the web, and that if SL want to be part of the growth of the open "metaverse" to come, they are absolutely right to remain uninvolved in these issues just as far as they legally can.

As the metaverse grows, and portals are established between its various components, any portion run by dictatorial politically-correct cultural-imperialists will quickly become a backwater once other vistas open up. I believe that LL understand this.

For heaven's sake grasp the bigger picture, all you bigots. I know you just cant see you are bigotted. Bigots never can.

And the guy who places homophobic signs? What is he? Koko the Friendly Clown that we are just supposed to smile at and say "thank you" to? Surely he isn't a bigot for placing homophobic signs.