Buying and Selling Land

Yes, it is definitely not abuse. It is leeway Linden Labs give to their customers. Every customer. It is same rule for everybody and in fact I think it is only fair. And I can ensure you, any potential benefit this might have for realtor is more than outweight by fee we have to pay for unused tier. Shortest time of tier use I have been billed a one-month-fee for was 6 (!) hours.

In any case, it is Linden Labs who make rules, not us. If Linden decide to require auction land be claimed within 48 hours of course I and others will comply with this.



Don't you think it is futile to bring up again and again the same thing from more than two month ago?

But if you insist we can look at it again.

In Varney I terraformed land, you told me you had problem, I changed land again so you were not unhappy. I call this example of how I care for neighbour and how I am willing to adjust things so everybody is happy.

In the other case I raised a hillside because I did not want look at the litter on the neighbouring lot. Instead of approach me in civil way, your friend decided to call all his friends who then mass flame and gang neg rate me. So I received 10-15 triple neg rates for forming a 10m high hillside and planting trees on it, to not have to look at a 30m high grey spiral of doom. Mmmm, well, I assume people bringing this same example up again and again and again after 2 1/2 month only shows there is lack of better example

So, yes, I do consider neighbour. But those who instead approaching me in civil way start with mass neg rate and pressure tactic will not make me move one single inch. If I do something that make you unhappy, talk to me in friendly way and will try find solution. You saw it work in Varney.



I said I don't mind if all financial transaction be made public. But singling out land business and leaving every other business hidden is not fair. If you introduce new rule, then it must apply to everybody, not just some.

Quite frankly, I've had enough of reading posts from person/s (who shall remain nameless) who spew out the same old self justifying garbage. Is there any way I can put them on mute?

Yes. Left click on the person's name in the Left Hand Column of their post. Then choose to view their public profile. On the Public Profile page, under their *huge* name, there is a line with two options. The option on the right hand side of the page allows you to put a person on your ignore list.

Click on my name - err - their name - from the left hand side of the post, and on the right hand side it has 'add to your ignore list'

Of course, ya still see lengthy quotes of theirs, and sometimes you just HAVE to know what they said to make someone else respond the way they did, but yeah.... useful tool

Really appreciate that Kris - even though you won't give me the gold dubloons

Thanks

Why should land barons get 20% off? Hahahhahahaha! YES! PLEASE DO THIS!

If possible at the same time I'd also like a guaranteed margin for resale and complete grid expansion planning as well, if its not too much to ask.

On a more serious note, the one concern i have with mass wholesale land selling is that it does severely reduce the number of land traders that can participate in the trading game if there isnt a wide range of land at competitive prices available for purchase by everyone equally. A 4-sim block would completely lock out players who either didnt already trade land or have serious balls and a lot of money to invest in a no guaruntee situation, and if "regular" market prices were truly a percentage higher no matter what, how could they ever work their way up?

Classic Wu.

yeah thats something that would be pretty one sided. It would basically be granting the existing crop of high roller profiteers limited monopolies on all land sales in SL, and give them full control of the market explicitly.

There would be no way for someone to avoid paying them alot of money, and that'd be probably one of the most irresponsible things LL could ever do.

as we have seen... despite consistantly weak claims, they don't really 'work' for the money so much as take 'risk' for it... aka.. its not like they're doing in 15 minutes, what would take a LL employee all day, despite claims to the contrary... so i really don't see any reason why they should be given this level of monopolistic boon. Especially when (as has been readily made aparant by anshe just in the last week) a sim LL makes $600 on.. they could *EASILY* have made $800, or even more on.. if they had simply had better tools to match up the final buyers to it to begin with...

essentially anshe took $200 from LL for the 'service' of putting a for sale sign on it and one forum post.. the fact it worked, and relatively quickly, simply servers to underscore the failing of the current auction system to match up real buyers with land.

The 20% I mentioned was an arbitrary number suggested by someone else, LL will have to determine the amount that makes the most sense. The benefit for LL is they get one huge sale instead of 80-200 small ones, therefore greatly reducing administrative costs. Also the wholsesale purchaser would be required to terraform and parcel the plots.

This system would not at all unfairly exclude anybody. The fact that someone doest have enough money to buy wholesale land just means that they should't buy it. Same goes for a player lacking the sack to lay down that much money, its a gamble, nobody is forcing you to take the chance. By defininition wholesaling is the sale of goods in large quantities, as for resale by a retailer.

If a system like this were to be tried, the auctions must remain in place. At least until such a time that there are many different wholesalers. The market would then dictate the prices. I also suggest suspending the wholesaler from the auctions for a period of time.

If I wanted a retailer I would go to the Mall.

Wait, what just happened.... did we just agree?



Oh, yes we did - but from VERY different perspectives. To me, its nonsense to dismiss risk as valueless and inconsequential. Beyond that in the specific situation you all keep mentioning had the secondary owner of that land instead bought it under a wholesale system, instead of LL "losing" $200 on a $600 sale of land, they would have either a) forced both users to sign up as a land baron and purchase wholesale with all that entails, both competing nonetheless for the same land (and hence theoretically bidding equally against each other comparative to market value) or b) purchase from the wholesale baron anyways, after giving said baron A DISCOUNT on their purchase, or c) allowing a secondary auction system with large enough parcels to totally negate the idea of wholesale. IF the nonwholesale price of a sim were BELOW wholesale due to a lack of bidders, what happens to the market then?

And Schwanson - Its not just 'too bad'. You have to share someday.

I just wanted to point out to you all that you are arguing against a fair and free system and the reprocussions of any changes far outway the percieved disadvantages of those who don't participate in the system anyways.

well we all know that wont happen. The land brokers will just sign in as an alt and buy that up too.

IMO

i'm sure some large land realtors will soon start placing offices in prominent locations in world and maybe even hiring staff to help with sales. happy shopping

IMO at the very least there would be significant attempts to play the markets off one another. Another very good argument against split auctions.

what im saying is that had LL simply had an in game auciton interface, so people could actually *SEE* and *search* current auction pricing, in world.. LL may have very well gotten $800, or more for the sim. Thus supporting the idea that what is really needed is to upgrade the exposure of the current auction system in a rather simple way of just allowing it to be interacted with, in world.

Lets see all the people who claim they are just working with the free market actually *COMPETE* within it, rather than using the obscurity of the current auction system as a way to make a quick buck.

I see, very true Eltee

Share what? I suspect that was some sort of barb, but I don't understand it. I am not at all saying eliminate the auctions. I am also saying give wholesale purchasers a flat rate. If this encourages end users to band together to make discounted sim purchases, great. I am now hearing alot of concern for LL and what they get paid for a sim. Honestly, who the hells business is that other than LL's ? If they make a bad pricing decision they will change it, trust me on this one. The idea of a discounted price is needed because it will offer incentive for people to take advantage of the offer and lower land prices as well.

And yes, an inworld auction tool would be helpful.

in a 'not quite so free market' schwanson aka having a few people with most of the access to a finite resource, lowering costs does not lower prices, it raises profits.

You ever see microsoft pass along cost efficiencies in their programmer tools with ever cheaper retail copies of xp and office?

Ok well, i just think you overestimate how much the 'obscurity' of the auctions may or may not effect pricing. I could be wrong. Regardless, if what you say is accurate and the changes you request take place, how would you feel if land prices increased 25% based on increased attention and participation? The specific situation you refer to was unusual and during a time of extreme flux for the market due to linden actions. However if that land were more than just a good deal but a symptom of an inherent system problem then it would indicate to me (by your logic) that prices are severely undervalued by auction at the moment. To me, this is a strong point for the current system, as (like so many have requested on this thread) it allows for anyone who wants to participate to actually aquire land more cheaply than they otherwise could through any other fair means and offers the possibility to everyone. The very definition of competition in my eyes.

The market is as free as a market can be. Everyone has access to the exact same resources at the same price. Competition will foster competitive pricing. Lower costs will have to translate into lower final pricing (because of competition). These barons will compete against each other and the auctions. If every new player was given a reseller's information sheet or calling card upon rezzing into SL, the MS analogy would hold water.

to me it just underscores that the system, for getting land, eventually to content producing players, is inadequate. Some people have sprung up to 'fill' this gap, as well as their pockets. I simply propose amending the system so that this won't be 'necessary'. If you want help from a realtor to buy a home, please by all means get in touch with one... but the way things are going it sounds like quite a number of people are pushing to make it cumpulsory, by giving these people advantages that the standard player doesn't have.

One of them is hours upon hours of time to paruse the current auction system to root out good deals. Why not just have the auction system so that those good deals are exposed to people with just a minutes' check to the latest land for sale listings?

i don't expect prices in game to go up at all.. in fact they would probably go down slightly as land 'brokers' would suddenly have to compete with auctions themselves for in game land listings.

to use this perennial example... rather than the *auction* closing at 600 and then 'ostensably' a land user eventually getting it at 800, mabye the auction would have closed at 750. The for auction prices would yes go up some... since they wouldn't be 'hidden' away from users as much anymore, compared to in game land. But to assume that would have a *direct* relation to in game land prices for the end-users is to basically say that land brokers now have enough leverage to force the market in any direxction they want to suit there ends... something again i would imagine is a claim you do not wish to back?

All I know is I see NOW how land is being contolled. I see NOW the prices of land won by a handful of ppl in the auction. It only stands to reason that when these same ppl get a hold of the new system of buying sims in bulk they will push the limits and see just how far they can suck residents dry. Why wouldn't they for them its all just business and profit they could give a (cus) less about what ppl what to pay. As I see it their only competition will be between themselves. Oh joy can't wait to see them tearing each other apart for the all might buck. Hell no I dont think any of this is good for SL. Only those who are going to be profiting from being a land broker would find it a good thing.

gack

All I know is I see NOW how thread is being contolled. I see NOW the discussion of land is manipulated by a handful of ppl on the thread. It only stands to reason that when these same ppl get a hold of a silly idea they will push the limits and see just how far they can take it to absurdity. Why wouldn't they for them SL has gone down the tudes since 1.2, they could give a (cus) less about contributing to the discussion. As I see it their only purpose will be to make veiled attacks with broad generalizations. Oh joy can't wait to see them whining nostalgically for the pre 1.2 non commercial SL. Hell no I dont think any of this is good for SL. Only those who are going to be recieving some form of twisted pleasure from destroying the openness and liquididty of the land market and the L$ currency would find it a good thing.

gack

looking forward to Robin's email.

...

wow... sometimes even i'm taken aback.. and i'm generally pretty jaded when it comes to silly antics.

i can't take this seriously anymore. it's too silly.

nothing personal, cat. just showing you what your post looks like from the other side.