A Union Of SecondLife Members To Lobby The Lindens?

And you think this had something to do with your union vote, thread spam, and 'lets play hardball (with no teeth)' posts?

Seriously - if you do - you got some rocks clanking around in your head...

.. Uncle Linden stated that these bugs are - have been - and shall stay priority 1...

A much more likely scenario:

They found one of the exploit bugs and posted a patch.....


Siggy.

I don't think LL fixed the bug cause I told them to. Nor because I got a union to tell them to. But I did manage to get a status update from a Linden personally telling me a) They are working on the bug and b) Yes, it's at priority number one.

Maybe you thought I wanted a revolution, but that was actually all I wanted, and I got it, and now we all have the patch the Lindens have made.

So I'm happy.

Hey here's something not so great, Ben Linden voted in my poll

It's to ask the people of second life about their feelings about something Linden related. So really I don't think it's appropriate for the Lindens to get in on this vote.

If anyone is serious about this contact me by email, PM, or IM. I'd be interested in directing or contributing to an organized movement to educate both residents and Lindens on our problems and proposed solutions. I'd like to take it a step beyond organized complaining and do some real team research into some of SL's bigger problems.

~Ulrika~

Am I not serious enough for you Ulrika Must be my clown face.

Well you can try and push me aside if you like. Some others would say you're kind of coming in here and taking the whole project to start a union off my hands. Me? Well I'm only 23 and I'm still too old for fighting over who gets what. As long as there is a group of people in SecondLife comitted to going to the Lindens to get clearer understanding of where we're at when things aren't going great, I'm happy. I just want one to exist, and to be part of one.

If it goes that way that everyone leaves me alone and sides with you the I'll probably join you too, I just want to be part of a group that... Well see the above paragraph (you wouldn't think I did English Lit at A Level, I'm not great at forming sentences).

I just skimmed but I thought you were messing around. I'm very serious about supporting grass-roots initiatives to promote change in SL, whether it's Eggy's online feature voting system, the RATE group, a union of concerned citizens, the SDF, or researchers who study and report on our virtual society. You'd be amazed at how little organization is really needed to expose, direct, and educate.

I'm interested in either participating in or supporting your work. Ownership is irrelevant. I just want others to know that if they have concerns, that I am available to help organize.

~Ulrika~

Well maybe the people need you. I have a group called "The Union Of Second Life". It's free to join.

I'm not particularly determined to function as a leader of a union in second life, I just really want one, so I have begun rallying round and gathering people.

Take your case to the people. Can you lead them? Maybe. You could start by encouraging more of the 30+ people who voted YES in this thread's poll to enroll in the free in-world group.

After that, it's up to the majority vote in the group to decide what we do with ourselves as a union. We may want to speak to the Lindens again about something, who knows. But hopefully next time something goes wrong, instead of all worrying in endless threads, maybe we can work as a group and go to the Lindens for information, and maybe with so many of us asking at once, they'll clear their schedules for a bit to hear us out.

Sure it is....the Lindens live in this world too ....sometimes much more than they would like I suspect. Ben also creates cool content for the world .

I still think it's weird a Linden voting in a resident poll about Lindens. But Ben has responded to an IM of mine with a fair viewpoint that I'm hoping he'll let me reproduce here.

Why not. If someone has a sensible point to make, let him or her be heard...

I got two balanced responses from Ben Linden which I'll reproduce here:


Response 01:
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I guess I just don't see the point because we are already working as hard as we can to fix this stuff, and making a union isn't going to make us work any faster

Response 02:
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we like to get feedback, and I don't have any problem with it being organized - but trust that we do want to get these fixed as much, or more than you do.


I'd say to point one, I have to agree. But some times it feels like the sky is falling on my head when things start to go wrong, and without a Linden around to hold my hand and say that it'll be OK and the cure is on the way, it can get a bit tense at times. Yes I could IM or email the Lindens, but I feel if I go as a group, this is like underlining the gesture. That's the reason I want a Union in Second Life. So I can say "Hey, I'm not too sure about this bug I've been seeing, let's all get in on an email to the Lindens and ask what the deal is".

To point two, I'd say that reassures me. Actually the way the permissions thing was handled reassured me too. When I heard there was another permissions bug out there, and I didn't see anything around saying "We're handling it" I worried, so I started this forum. And it did kind of work, Uncle Linden came out to say all is OK, which is what I wanted.

Ben says he's OK with a union and has no problem with it, and I say I'm happy to hear the Lindens work hard on bug fixes. It's reassuring to hear it, and I may look forward to working with fellow residents in future to talk out my fears if something happens that leaves me wondering what's up...

Was kind slow at work today so I spent much of my lunch hour reading and eating... not necessarily in that order

I realize that some of the comments and statements that I am about to make here are going to open myself up to an onslaught of ridicule, jokes, snide remarks, etc. It is my hope however that the forums are as open-minded and forgiving as I find many of the SL residents to be when I have spoken to them.

Now granted, I have not been in SL as long as many of you. I am not as popular as Christiano or others. I have no basic designing skills, building or scripting skills. That being said I still think that I can make some basic comments and observations that maybe some seems to be missing or forgetting here.

The first item is the remarks towards the creative people, those with the skills I have already mentioned that have the ingenuity to be able to utilize their talents into generating L$ for themselves. You are to be commended and I salute you. However, those of you with these skills and talents, don't be so quick to dismiss those of us that lack these skills. There are many reasons why we do, some have already been mentioned. Some people simply don't have the time, energy and ambition that many of you have to pursue such endeavors. Just don't forget one important thing. Without end-users for your products, like the many that signed on to SL to escape, enjoy themselves, socialize and have fun (this is still a GAME after all!) there would simply be no need for your skills and services. I mean, who would you "sell" these items to? Each other? Why? You all have the same skills, there would be no need to do this, you'd simply just make your own items, clothes, furniture, scripts, etc based upon your own ideas and things you have seen. So, please try and remember a lot of residents are still confused by these changes, especially those that recently joined. To them, it is still... JUST A GAME. This doesn't make them any less creative or lack ideas, it is simply that they chose not to pursue the same passions that you do.

Which leads me to my next topic, MONEY, L$, stipend, whatever you want to call it. I whole heartedly agree that you CAN enjoy everything about and in SL without the need for immense wealth. That being said, why should we or anyone do without? Telling someone that it is their choice not to buy something or learn a skill to make something to sell and making it sound as if they choose not to do this then, "Oh well, sucks to be you" isn't fair. We all came here to have fun and enjoy ourselves, so why create an elitest group of "those that can" vs. "those that can't or choose not too"? Shouldn't they also be allowed to enjoy the same things that you do? No, I am not saying that LL should just GIVE them L$ as has been the case in the past with the weekly stipend equaling 1-2K per week in some cases. What I am saying is there needs to be an equal playing field. You all have found your niche in 'creating' other than that there really aren't many other ways of gaining L$ here short of buying them, which I will get to next. Yes, "jobs" are posted on the forums but with the exception of a select few, many are short lived or fall by the wayside do to lack of interest and L$ by those that have initiated the same. If there was a more equal way of everyone being able to earn in their own way at their own skill level then I wouldn't have a problem with it. However, it isn't equal and until that time comes, those that create, build, script, etc in SL will be the leaders. It's like walking into a class room and annoucing to all the children that you will be passing out ice cream today but, only to those who's last name begins with the letter Q. That isn't fair and until there is equality in all SL residents being able to earn in their own way... you will always hear complaining and see posts like this on the forums.

Finally the L$ issue, I agree with those that are opposed to the fact that you can take L$ and convert them into USD. I keep getting back to the same thing... it is a GAME people!! It is supposed to be for fun. I really don't think that the people at LL had capitalistic ideals and ventures in mind for all of it's residents when they came up with the idea of this GAME. I also agree that SL is what we make of it and I think it is great that LL wants us to be in control of our own destiny. However, would all of you that "sell" the things that you make here in SL be as willing and have as much passion and desire to do this if L$ was NOT able to be converted into USD? I'd be willing to bet that if that stopped tomorrow, half of the designers and such in SL would say, "Screw this, there is nothing to motivate me now to do this". Yes, some would still continue as they find it to be an enjoyable passion and hobby and that is what the game should be... FUN!! Not us vs. you or them and they, etc. We should all be looking at this from each others points of view and not slamming the first person that comes along and complains that this isn't right or that isn't this, etc. We are all entitled to our opinions just as I am voicing mine now.

I already know that some are going to come on here and slam me, nit pick at what I have said, make jokes, some will agree and see what it is that I am saying here. All of those are welcome and I take no offense to anything derrogitory that may be said following this.

I will end my rave with this.... those that create and sell... good job!! I am happy you are here and maybe some day when I have the time or inclination one of you may consider sharing some of your basic knowledge with me. Those that can't or choose not to do any of this and just came for the "ride" to socialize, dance at a club, chat, hang out, cyber, whatever... good on you too!! Glad to have you here... you're entitled to want to HAVE FUN! But you all better remember that you NEED EACH OTHER if SL is to survive, grow and prosper. Alienating each other is not the solution, nor is name calling, derrogotory comments, etc. Further to that neither is ganging up on LL and bitching to them about what they are and aren't doing right with regards to SL. Whether it be technical issues, functional or otherwise. If anyone thinks for one moment that LL doesn't know what its weaknesses are regarding SL you are sadly mistaken. They know, and I am sure that they are doing the best that they can to resolve things. Anything worth doing is worth doing right and it is going to take time. One of you show me how perfect your RL is and then you can bitch all you want about how imperfect SL is... until then. Let's just all try and accept the fact that we are all ultimately here for the same reason... to have fun and PLAY THE GAME!!! IT IS ONLY A GAME!!! It will be as enjoyable or non-enjoyable as YOU want it to be. Pointing the finger at LL or other residents isn't the answer.

When you point one finger at someone else..... you have three fingers pointing right back at YOU... so who is more to blame??

For those that read this, thank you for your time... I will shut my yap now and try and salavge what is left of my available sleep time before I have to get up in 4 hrs and go to work. Thanks and I hope to see you all around SL some time!

Hmm, I'm sorry, what were you trying to say in relation to a union in second life? I am just finding it hard to determine why you put the post here...

Answer?

A second life union would not shove anything down anyone's throat. It would not represent anyone but it's members. And it would only represent them because they are a part of it. The union would be the sum of it's members, and it wouldn't shove anything down anyone's throats.

And if it has a few hundred members, it would conclusively be a percent of the SL populace, and could realistically claim to be so.

He probably should have spelled it out better and in fewer words.

Cheers Dragon

And to Mike, Linden Labs will always be in sole control of fixing SL cause let's face it the source code isn't open source.

But there are a few good points to having a union. If something worries the populace, we can probably get a faster response from the Lindens by going once as a group to them. Plus, if we are a group, by getting a response as a group, all the members will be informed at once, and we can pass whatever we find on to our friends and associates.

I think it would be faster and better if in times of trouble we go as a group to the Lindens with our concerns for a nice, direct answer.

No thanks to a union.

The further into this thread I got, the more the "U" word sounded like the "G" word.

Grapefruit??

No, gourds, very large gourds.

It is to be expected the further you get from initial conception of an idea, the more the idea matures...

Call it a union, call it a group, but the idea remains the same, a collection of people who are members of Second Life, who work together democratically to talk with the Lindens about issues that are of concern.

Oh and can we get a largest post award for Mike Craven

"Group" wasn't the "G" word

Well if it's anything negative or aimed at rubbishing what I'm trying to do here, please just save it. Thanks.

No, I wouldn't do that, it's "government". A leftover from the forum government debates, if one can call them debates.

Oh lol well I think what I'm trying to do would make a poor government I want all actions the group does to be voted for by the members If you think your government is bad, wait till you see this one, a vote for everything! It'll be OK considering we just want to talk to the Lindens in times of trouble (in calm times I figure we'll just rest) but we should probably stop short of trying to govern anything