A Union Of SecondLife Members To Lobby The Lindens?

I don't join World of Warcraft umm because I don't want to! When I think I wish to let someone else decide what online game I will play you'll be the first to know.



I am 'seething with resentment' as you put it because my fun is hampered so you and the rest of the money exchangers can sell the L$ for more on GOM. And when I signed up for SL there was a gleaming sign (which I think is still there) "MAKE MONEY FOR BEING NICE" refering to making money from ratings. It now costs more to 'MAKE MONEY FOR BEING NICE' then you can make so that statement is not only pointless but a lie. And you know what Chip I'm happy you find enjoyment 'working' in SL to make your creations I really am. Not everyone does! I did not join SL for a second job I signed up for an escape something to spend my NON working time doing. Although as stated many times I am trying to learn Poser and Photo Shop. And Chip you have been a great help in learning both of those. You need to stop thinking only of a small circle of SL people (the money exchangers) and consider the rest of us. You know those that don't have now and won't be able to afford 20 vender spots and 50 uploads a week.



You are obviously a child when the best you can come up with is petty childish insults. Grow up and revisit when you do thank you. At least Chip can be articulate in his arguements to keep his L$ selling for more on GOM.

All the greedy money exchangers are putting on a good front claiming the economy was in ruins because uncreative people were able to make a whopping 1 or 2k a week. It sure would be nice if you could realize what it would be like if you were only to get 500 a week now. As I stated in previous arguements that is not even close to being enough to rent vender places and do constant uploads to the point where you can make a profit. As for the question about what I need money for (forgot who asked that). I need money to buy the shit YOU the money exchangers create! How long do you think us assholes that can't make big flashy creations are going to dump our hard earned cash into GOM to buy your stuff. Like I said your greed will be your own downfall.

All your arguments are nothing but "OMFG JOO SUX I WANT TEH MONIES" with filler fluff, so you really shouldn't be talking.

You should consider actually getting to know a person as an individual before throwing around labels and putting people into categories.

Thanks for elaborating Corey. Despite my first snarky comment I'm really not trying to harp on you. I'm trying to understand why people feel the way they do. It's a different mindset than mine and I don't like to see this kind of contentious and unnessecary class warfare. There's nothing in SL that you actually need. There's tons of stuff to see an do, and tons of great clothes, toys, gadgets, that are all free. There's tons of great people to meet and a million great conversations to be had. None of that requires any L$ at all. On top of all that there's a lot of content that you can buy, if you choose to... none of which is necessary to enjoying SL. If you want it, great. People like me really appreciate the sales. You can either buy L$, or try to earn L$ in world. If you don't really want to do either of those there's nothing wrong with that. SL is a great place to kick back and relax. So why resent the people who charge for content or resent those that are willing to pay or work for it? It's all completely voluntary. I love that you don't have to do anything here if you don't want to. I found games like Anarchy Online and Asheron's Call to be far more of a "job" and I just kinda wandered aimlessly and hunted. I never held anything against those that had more time than me or liked doing all the quests even though they had stuff and skills I couldn't get. I played the way I wanted to and accepted what I got in return. I think it's great that you're learning poser and photoshop. They're great fun to use. I hope that you're learning them because you're interested in them and have fun developing some skills with them. That's the most important reward to me. If you're just doing it in hopes of attaining money then I think that would be a shame. The greatest rewards here have nothing to do with money. Lastly, I'm not thinking only of my small circle of friends. I see everyone here as equals. Their L$ balance or the clothes on their av don't make any difference, so why would you point at content developers or other successful people and call them "money changers" as if it's a racial slur? That might just irritate me and make me say something flippant.

People we need you to come in world and join the group "The Union Of Second Life" in order to make this fly.

It might be you can get prompt answers to all your questions and updates of all stuff important just by being a one man band and talking to the Lindens, but that's not the impression I gather from posts around the forums. So if you don't band together now, then you'll have to keep on being one man (or woman) bands till the next time someone calls for the creation of a union.

hehe thanks Siggy I appreciate that. I'm aiming for evil pecan pie baron.

Corey;

Don't let the blowhard know it all's in this forum get to you. Their voice is not nearly as strong as they like to think. Whats the worst thing that can happEN by standing up to them? They certainly can't break you knees .

JSecure;

I think its about damn time somebody did something in SL. Since 1.2 its been downhill. Hell there is more talk about a kiddie grid than fixiing the bugs.

I don't see most of these ppl who speak out in the forums doing anything JSecure more power to ya man, I voted yes. I bet if we had some kind of representation we would of been told about the changes way before; 2 days prior to.

As for the same old blowhards, what have you done to change things? Nada. Give someone else a chance at leadership. Hell most ppl cringe at the forums, hardly read and rarely post. You all scare the shit out of pp. I think its time ppl like JSecure be congratualted for trying something new.

JSecure go for it! I back you 110% for TRYING.


Cat.

*Ulrika bursts through the door like Kramer*

Did someone say government?

~Ulrika~

hahaha, thanks for that Ulrika

2+ years in SL, and I have never, ever, exchanged money on GOM or IGM, in fact I have been quite vocal about the fact that I think introducing RL money into SL was a really questionable thing and I still believe it. I rarely if ever sell anything and when I do it's dirt cheap, and frequently tell people not to rate me. My biggest game is free in spite of the fact I probably should charge to play, I don't advertise it at all except maybe once in a great great while on the forums. The only thing I ever charged significantly for was classes, but I put hours and hours of work into them. I made enough to hold onto some money, saved some stipend, and bought some land. And that's all I've ever had.

The amount of money you could make by "being nice" is insignificant unless you are really, really high up on the leader board, and those positions are pretty much locked by the people working hard for them; getting high ratings that are worth the time is a second job indeed, you ahve to be online a lot and really get out there.

To succeed in SL, you have to play the game, and the game means doing things. I know a popular playstyle is more or less doing nothing, and you're free to do it, but I just can't fathom why people expect to be rewarded for it beyond the base stipend. If that's the sort of game you are looking for, and I don't say this to be mean, you will be very frustrated with SL.

You HAVE to get involved in something to get ahead. You just do.

ROFLMAO!

Ulrika I think I would back some of your ideas as well!

*Why yes hell did just freeze over, who needs free iceskates?

Cat

You are a complete moron. When you graduate from 3rd grade please inform us so we can buy you a new set of training wheels for your bicycle.

Will that be about the time you stop stomping your feet and demanding money for pretending to be nice? Because you obviously aren't nice at all. So not only do you want free money, you want it for lying to people. Oh well, I guess thats how plenty of people make their money anyway.

Btw, as one of a fetid inner core of evol content barons that made all my money before 1.2, and has it just sitting in my L$ account, having no interest in changing it on GOM due to the sucky strength of the US$ against sterling, I feel somewhat left out of your pigeon hole labelling. Can you come up with a contemptable name for 'rich people' who don't change money on GOM at all?

And, like Tcoz, I was very vocal about the fact that I think the biggest problem with SLs economy came with the ability to change L$ with USD$. Thats what brought all the greedy freeloaders who paid their 9.95 and turned SL into the free-for-all money obsessed whinefest that it is today. But damn it, they have a RIGHT to get free money, don't they?! After all, how are they to buy the evol money changer content barons stuff?!

Chip I'm not going to include the quote from your reply. Rather respond to it as a whole. You say you can get things for free. Yep you are 100% correct. And free stuff is exactly that 'free stuff'. It's second rate with exception of the odd occasion. I refer to money exchangers because this change was obviously made for them. With less money being paid we (the majority of SL'ers) are forced to go without or buy from GOM. That makes GOM demand go up which makes the money exchangers earn more real life money. With that real life money they are apt to buy more land thus paying LL more money. The economy in SL was NOT heading for out of control status as the money exchangers had claimed. I as a shopper have not noticed any price increases since I started this game. Noone has the balls to admit they don't want us (the average SLer) making out 1 or 2k a week because it makes their GOM worth less. They hide behind this bullship curtain that the economy in SL was in shambles. You know it as well as I why this change was inplimented. And you seem like a very smart person. I can't beleive you don't see how this will harm your bottom line in the long run. Of course the short term money exchangers don't give a rats ass about the long term. They just want to make their fat payday from GOM and be gone.

I played Anarchy Online from the 1st beta. I have 3 accounts there (all closed) with aprox. 750MIL credits between them. I got the majority of those from running endless missions and then soloing hecklers for ingots when Shadow Lands came out. But you see at least in AO you could do something that didn't require vast computer design/programming skills to make money. I have considered reopening them before they expire from their database just to cash the credits on IGE for SL money. Why should i even have to consider something like that though?? Why should I be forced to pay more of my hard earned real money on GOM for SL money? Why don't you support making it so people can't sell their L$ for real money? Why am I looked down on because I choose to be a shopper in SL and spend on a whim. Live like a millionaire and buy what I want? Although even with my old average weekly income of L$1250 I couldn't quite get everything I wanted, but it woudn't take long. For instance the second skin I think cost me 3k maybe 2 don't remember now. It took me like 2 weeks. Now it will take the average person a month or more at a whopping 500 a week income. That's pathetic. That income should have been potential should have been replaced with some other means then rating.

Yes I would like to own a business and have it PROFITABLE. As I've explained over and over that don't seem a possibility as on 500 a week I will not be able to afford vender rentals/upload costs. Yes I would like to learn more about Photo Shop and Poser. I enjoy working in both. I have fun with Poser just making silly things with their characters. And I do appreciate all the help you've given me with Poser. I asked you a million questions with my alt and you answered every one. This money change is not good. I understand that you and others up in their purch it's impossible to see though. I just wish I could figure out the right thing to say to open your eyes.

This whole union idea I don't know what to think of. I don't think LL could give a rats ass what the union would say anyway. Hell I don't think any game developer gives a fuck what any paying customer says. As long as they have fresh meat coming in it's all good in their eyes. It's apparent the money exchanger raigh supreme on these forums. So it looks like a lost cause. Maybe the guy that's starting it will find many many people in game to join. I know in game it's rare that I talk to people that think cutting most of SLers income to nearly nil was a good idea. Here in the forums though its completely opposit. I guess the money exchangers are more apt to be browsing websites to see how their GOM is doing rather then being in game attempting to have fun.

Chip again thank you for all your help with Poser. I will probably be picking your brain about it again very soon.

Re: a union in Second Life

The in world group "The Union Of Second Life" needs members, we have 27 yes votes here but only about 8 members there. We need more members in order to make this work. Please support this idea because you can't have a union without members

If you feel you don't want to translate your YES vote into a membership, it's OK. Maybe it's not the best time for this now, who knows. Only you the people can speak, so do it with your feet if you would

What will you do if you get 100 votes against it before you get 50 for it?

We dont need a union. We already have the Feted Inner Core in place to save LL the trouble of running this world

Let's see....hmmm...a union? Nope, never ....One of my main pet peeves in the RL is unions as they are run by a small set of narrow minded individuals that steer the cattle of the membership like the captain of the Titanic, oblivious of the actual dangers that may be occuring as long as they are safe in their cabin.

I will not add my voice to mob rule. The image of 100 avis storming some representative of Linden Labs comes to my mind, with pitchforks and torches. Have to agree with the comment that the forums in no way are a good slice of the population of SL and any poll/organisation that comes into being here cannot be taken as " this is the way we all feel". There fore a union coming out of this cannot be a force that the Lindens are going to be concerned with.

I will grant that IF you do get 100 people to join it will be an indication to the LL staff that there is concern about an issue but they scan the forums as it is without the need for something as formal as a union.

possibly your time would be better spent organising a group to come up with ways in-game to solve some of the problems. I'm sure you can find enough talented people to put together a project group and tackle some of these things and HELP the Lindens instead of confronting them.

If ten thousand people say "We don't want in", they don't have to join. If ten thousand people say nothing, they don't have to join. If ten people say "We want in", they are welcome.

Nice way to slap everyone that makes free content....and what exactly do you do for the community again? oh, thats right....nothing.



The supposed money exchangers didn't force this change. This a closed economy and LL saw what was happening. Prices were changing whether you want to admit it or not...just because you say you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't exist. The economy wasn't in shambles but anyone with half a brain could see that inflation was on the horizon so LL took pre emptive measure to head it off. If they hadn't you would be here crying later that they didn't do their job. People aren't pissed that someone is making 1-2k a week bonus stipend because it hurts GOM rates...they are pissed that asswipes are gaming the system and fucking it up for everyone else .





No one is forcing you or anyone else to buy money...you don't need money to enjoy Sl. I've never gotten any more than 650 linden stipend a week...I'm not a rate farmer so I started making things to sell...I sucked at first but got better....



veryone in SL that has started a business started out slow. We all started with base stipend and you don't need to rent spots in malls. Work on what you are good at and start small.



LL cares more about its customers than 99% of the games out there...just because you don't agree with a decision doesn't make them not give a fuck....



I have no doubt Chip will continue to give you help...it's the kind of person he is....Maybe that should tell you something.....

To tackle issues? I can't fix the permissions system myself (it has another bug) as I don't work for Linden Labs.

If I really want the permissions system fixed once and for all my way to do it is to get off my ass, get the people together, and ask them all to join with me in writing a letter to Linden Labs with all our names on, expressing our strength of feeling on the matter.

They see one guy or one girl whines every so often about wanting this or that fixed. No biggie. They do not see a hundred people saying in unison "Please fix this for us, it is important to us, we feel it matters".

As stated by a Linden in this very rthread and many times before...they are working on the permission system....it takes time.

A Linden posted to this thread?

I missed that one, will re-read it.

It's good to know they're listening though Maybe my wanting to start a union has paid off already, we have got the Lindens to come talk to us, keep us in the loop. That's part of what I wanted in the first place

Just read your post, thanks very much! But you can lead the union if you like. When there are enough members for it to sustain itself, I intend to let the members pick whoever they feel is best to lead. I just want us as a collective to have a united voice

The lindens have always listened...thats what makes this game different. Unfortunately the game has grown in leaps and bounds in the past year and they are having growing pains. They actually care about this world they created....you can see it if you look close enough.

A linden not only posted to this thread....he answered your concerns specifically.