Developer's Incentive = Disincentive ?

It is based ONLY on dwell hun.

You people keep whining about the same thing month after month and keep missing the point entirely month after month.
I'll just recreate here what I posted last month.
Briana Dawson, #2 in dwell. She doesnt know much about building and wouldnt script if her life depended on it. Yet she is leading the single largest project in SL. How does she manage? Well, she HIRES people who DO know how to build and script. Where does she get the money to hire them? DWELL.
Just because the names on the list arent people widely regarded as talented creators, does not mean there isnt a very large development team behind them.

okay, okay I was wrong hehehe I get the point I thank everyone who corrected my mistake to me and understand it a bit more now If I hadnt posted my thoughts and opinions I wouldnt have learned
Congrats to this months winners and those in the past and future

Now please stop beating me hehehe

Right on Eggy!

I am 3rd for the insentive program. I didnt even know of it till my club was #1 and moving up and down a slot here and there. I kept getting IMs from people telling me great job and that Ill get a lot for my dwell. I being only a month old had no clue what they were talking about. I thought they ment the daily dwell you get. Finally Letum zuma and Maryiln told me I would get real cash for doing what Ive been doing for fun. I was a bit taken back but happy. Not for the money but that Linden had a program to give back and let us know our hard work wasn't for anything. It is hard to get the dwell that I do and many days I debate should I continue? If Im doing it for fun then why stress myself at times. I think its the compeditive nature in me that drives me. I only have a weeewittle chunck of land a little more then 4k in size and I came in 3rd so it can happen if you work hard enough. People assume I must make a mint from my club hehehe all us club owners know the truth to that. I am lucky if I break even everyday, but again its for fun right? hehe ~ Jenna Fairplay

Can we just poke you with a stick a little? hehe. Here, have a roast beef sandwich. They really are delicious.

And Eggy... great points!

Original Question:

The development awards have absolutely zero impact on what I make or don't make - the sole deciding factor on what I do is simply 'is this fun?'. I tool around with different things, and occassionally put those things on sale or give them away. There is no rhyme / reason/ or motive to anything I do (other than to enjoy myself at that particular moment).

I rarely even look at who got what dwell - that whole area of Second Life simply doesn't interest me.

As for the developer awards in general - I got one once - for a scripted object contest.. there were a few non-dwell bonus awards done, I'm not sure if they attracted enough attention to continue or not.

I'd like to see some more of them in the future.

Siggy.

the developer incentive program is working towards generating developments that are most important in SL, those developments that further community and interaction. players have worked hard to develop destinations which will bring people together to enjoy in a shared space. none of thier projects exist in a vacuum. they have enlisted many in world designers and scripters and event planners to help them out. it is not the individual efforts of any player that is being rewarded but the culmalative effort.

i have never been or will ever be on the dwell list but i look at the list and nod. lots of respect to all the players who put so much effort to create these locations.

personally, it does impact me but not in a strong manner. i try to make places people will want to visit but i definitely do work as hard at it and so of course it's a futile effort. if a few people visit and hang out and enjoyed themselves, that's good enough for me.

As pointed out earlier, the incentive is misnamed. It does not encourage me to develop anything beyond a poorly textured box (if at all textured), with a standard dance machine, a tired sound track, and either rotating lights or particles. That's one example of what the 'development' incentives encourages me to develop. Another example might be a squarish flat open mall (which much to my distaste I have made).

The list does go on, but personally the development incentives, as they are, don't encourage any kind of real development from me except the kind that will allow me to game the system the most. Much of that involves me playing the host to events which cuts down on my time I'll have available to develop.

So either it needs a new name, because it does not encourage me to develop jackall (just host tons of events nonstop). Or it needs to change to encourage me to develop something more interesting. I.E. there needs to be a point. Currently, yeah I can go sell my building services to people like Briana, but why? I can just do the building myself and then ALSO do all the hosting.

There's no incentive for me to do just building all by itself and that's the problem.

I do respect that some of you do only host events, and that's a viable option under the current system. I'm sure it works nicely for you.

Dwell works perfectly.

Perfect for attracting Clubs, Malls, Casinos, Clasinos and every other dwell-emphasized activity that exists.

This is what your world looks like with dwell, sims creaking under the event-sponsored lag-fests all because of dwell. Not for the dwell payout, oh of course not, its for the Developer Incentives, more aptly named Dwelloper Incentives because you're really cultivating dwell as your primary goal.

Of course I say 'your' world, because after a while, its becoming less of what I consider 'my' world, after all.

It is time to put a cap on the Dwelloper Awards, and begin to award the scripters, builders and other community makers of SL.

Capping the Dwell Awards will insure that those who do own high-traffic areas will continue to (hopefully) offset their land tier costs and thrive.

It's time to have a "theme-build-of-the-month" (or quarter) -- so that the building and texturing skills of individuals can shine through, so that those individuals who purchase large amounts of land for prim usage can also share in a small percentage of the pot.

It's time to have an "Educator of the Month" award, awarding someone who has taken the time to create an original class, class outline, hand-outs, etc.

It's time to have a "scripted object of the month award" -- something that enhances either the individual play, helps land owners maintain their land, and/or is simply fun and unique.

It's time to have a "community builder of the month award" based upon the hours an individual spends helping a newbie get off the ground.

If not, look for more clubs, more dances, more BDSM "whip me till I chill" nights, and more "shake that booty-u-full and naked AV ass" parties will continue.

There has already been a decline in themed areas, themed builds and hobbiests who initially enjoyed SL for the variation of what could be created. The keyword is variation. Yes, SL needs a social atmosphere. Yes, SL needs adult areas where discussions can take place between adults.

But what SL needs now is a return to variation of the SL experience.

Yes.

In other words, a world based on simplistic mechanisms such as "dwell" and "ratings" is not so much a world as a toy -- and the Lindens have made it clear in white papers, corporate statements, and executive comments that they're in the business of creating a world.

A principle difference between Second Life and a world is a diversity of purposes, behavior, and cultures -- economic, social, intellectual, whatever. Dwell may encourage a narrow range of creativity and economic activities, just as ratings may encourage minor social order through a small amount of peer pressure. But to rely on such limited incentives is to encourage a poverty of experiences in SL. And right now, diversity of opportunity and experiences is what SL needs to retain people -- talented or otherwise -- who decide to commit to it.

Second Life cannot be all about a dozen kinds of things to do and see, or it will reach its saturation point very quickly. The kinds of initiatives that some have argued for on this thread have real and necessary value, even if that value is long-term, complex, and not easy to quantify, nor gain from immediately. Residents can do a lot, but in an experimental world notable for a wide-open absence of authority, the Lindens have responsibilities, too.

Time to plan beyond the short-term, easily-quantifiable variables.

Alright, too many posts to read so I apologize if this has been said, but I think the problem with the current developer incentive program is the following:

It's a "popular places" based system. Well, guess what? Every time you click on places to popular places the same ones are at the top of the list. People go through them in order (lots of RL studies on this -- what shows is seen what has to be searched for isn't). That means they are self supporting and get a higher percentage of new visitors because of already having a lot of people at them.

Now, this is good for someone who has long term plans and it means there is an incentive that may help reduce some of the cost of, say, paying USD$195 a month for an entire sim. Given the split was at USD$2700, I doubt it covers much of that, though. More likely the daily dwell payments and money earned from sales and activity is worth more anyway for those at the top.

What this does not do, though, is help the new developer. It could take months, or longer, at this point in SL to build something that would become in the top 2% of all places. So why bother?

Dwell already rewards the established. A system that rewards the best new developments would help encourage lots of new and innovative development to take place. This would be a bit more complex than the current system. What does new mean? Likely it means that it hasn't received a reward. But then, if you can only receive a reward once, there is no continued incentive, other than dwell. It also means that it could break down if the new development doesn't continue. So, maybe it's simply based on change in dwell on a percentage basis or something. It is on a monthly basis, and it could be an average of the last two or three months. That is, to qualify you have to be in the top percentage of change in dwell for the last 60-90 days and from there the Lindens choose the winners.

What this also provides for is a system that could reward someone with small plots of land that can't get the sheer amount of dwell that those with 2-3 sims can get.

Maybe there just needs to be more categories, like big business to small business.


Just my L$.02.

-Zax

For the love of god, people, seek your own rewards! If you feel there has to be a chance that LL is going to send you a check before you'll feel motivated to develop anything and interact with the community then you're in the wrong place. Don't like malls, clubs, or casinos? Fine. Don't visit them. Stretch your imaginations. Develop for the joy of creativity. If you require subsidies or rewards for your efforts then maybe you should try selling magazine subscriptions to earn a trip to band camp, or go find a good pyramid scheme. It amazes me that in a world with limitless freedom and creative possibility, people are still looking for a way to "win" the game.

Chip,

No one is trying to "win" at this game.

All we're saying is give others a chance.

Show others that LL also appreciates their efforts in creation of this world.

What the hell is wrong with awarding creativity? The hobbiests, the builders and the scripters are and HAVE continued to create without any reward whatsoever.

Do you realize how many hobbiests have left SL because they tire of seeing rewards for dwell continually?

And please, before you start beating your own drum from band camp -- tell me what is WRONG with awarding something different than dwellopers for a change? I didn't ask that the dwelloper awards be stopped, I asked that they be capped and that the new percentages, a small amount of that big game-winning monthly award be divvied out to something new.

Then again, you can continue to beat your own drum.

Why does LL need to award any of us for anything? If it's about money then we have an economy in place for the sole purpose of awarding each other. If it's just about recognition, we have a community for that. Looking to LL for pats on the back strikes me as misguided and rather needy.

I haven't seen anyone say that they choose not to create because they won't get an Incentive award. What I see are people answering the question posed to them about how much developer incentive awards affect their decisions to create. And with most people who have answered, the answer has been 'slim to none'.

Who exactly are you lecturing, Chip? Could you point out the person that said they don't create because they won't win any money for it?

Just curious if we're reading the same thread.

Then why stand up for those who are, in your own words, "winning the game" by getting a dwelloper award for the most popular place?

Wouldn't your own argument stand up very well against ANY award?

So why slap down the new ideas that LL has been asking for and promising to implement?

Or should we just continually base the creation of this world, and "content" to popular places?

Sorry, but there is some very fine "content" out there that is not being eyeballed or even half-way recognized.

Then why aren't you posting about that fine content that needs recognition instead of complaining that LL isn't doing it for us? Why not start up your own reward fund and dole it out to those you think deserve it? Why do people look to LL for everything when it seems to me this is a community issue. I'd be fine with LL doing away with dwell entirely. Let the economy do what it was intended to do.

It's not about pats on the back or recognition. It's about creating a stimulating environment for creativity of all kinds, for a cross-fertilization of ideas, and for optimism. Which is all about generating opportunity, encouraging and retaining talent, and creating wealth, inworld and out. It's about residents and Lindens working together systematically to achieve this environment. Diversity is the key. And diversity has little to do with limited and artificial models like "games".

Dwell isn't a substitute for direction. In the context of many diverse initiatives, and well-designed, it may work well. Right now, it's a game band-aid.

Almost every poster on this thread, even those that claim the dev incentives don't interest them, are operating on the assumption that the incentives are driving the direction and content of the world...



Clubs existed long before dwell, and would continue to exist without it.



Again, this makes the assumption that people are developing in order to try and get dwell so they can win an incentive. The ONLY way?! Aren't we forgetting about the economy and our own ability to vote with our L$?



Why? Would more people do more creative things if there was a chance LL would pat them on the back? Again this is making the assumption that the dev incentives matter to people and that changing them would encourage different kinds of development, while almost everyone in this thread claims they don't matter to them personally.



This is my favorite one. Siro built a mall "much to his own distaste." Why?!



*hands Maxx a hankie*



If no one chooses not to create or changes what they create in order to get a dev incentive, then why does everyone assume that everyone else DOES?



Same deal there. People are ascribing almost mythological powers to the dev incentives, so much so that it's apparanently responsible for the narrow range of creativity in SL.

I assure you Jonquille, we are reading the same thread. I think LL should do away with the dev incentives and let the economy do what it's supposed to do. We as a community shape our world, not the dwell or the developer incentive program. You (the figurative you, not the you you) can't argue that it doesn't matter to you and then complain that it's a bad system that's responsible for all the clubs and casinos in the world. My point is that people should just ignore it and do what most people claim they do... create what makes them happy. We shouldn't need any incentives we can't create amongst ourselves, without LL's intervention.

That said, the dev incentives for dwell are useful in my personal opinion simply because people who build things that draw huge numbers of people need huge amounts of space, and therefore have higher expenses. It's nice that there's a mechanism in place to help them defray their costs. If you're not a person that wants to build a place that draws tons of people then the incentive program shouldn't matter to you at all. It's not really intended for you.

Yeah Lynn... How dare you think that Developer Incentive Awards should go to other types of Developers too. What's wrong with you, you whiner? If it's such a good idea that people other than dwellopers get some official recognition for their creations, do it your damn self. Things work just fine with only the most commercially successful builds even being considered as developements.. don't go rocking the boat now, you commie.

Only mall/casino/club owners should be considered developers, and the rest of you should just be happy you're allowed to 'develop' anything at all, if you can call it that without the dwell numbers to back you up. Pfft.

You damn cry babies, always looking to the Lindens for kick-backs and refusing to create without the promise of one. You make me sick!

Lindens! No more themed developers awards! You're just enabling and encouraging people to appreciate recognition!



(Smiley added for the sarcasm impaired)

You're entirely missing my point.

It's not about pats on the back or recognition. It's about creating a stimulating environment for creativity of all kinds, for a cross-fertilization of ideas, and for optimism. Which is all about generating opportunity, encouraging and retaining talent, and creating wealth, inworld and out. It's about residents and Lindens working together systematically to achieve this environment. Diversity is the key. And diversity has little to do with limited and artificial models like "games".

Dwell isn't a substitute for direction. In the context of many diverse initiatives, and well-designed, it may work well. Right now, it's a game band-aid.

I'm afraid the economy isn't doing what it's supposed to do -- if, as the Lindens say, the economy is supposed to be the framework of a diverse and realistic world. Right now the economy is limited to perhaps a dozen or less production and entertainment "industries". No real economy can endure such poverty, nor provide the foundation for a desirable culture that people might want to visit, remain in, and support for the long term.

No, the point about residents and Lindens encouraging diverse economic activities is correct. Laissez faire may have been good for beta, but recent growth demands more thought.

I agree with that Donovan, but that's our fault as a community, not LL's. How many times have you seen anyone charge admission to their parcel? Ever? People don't value their own contributions enough to charge for them. Shouldn't that be their responsibility and not LL's?