Developer's Incentive = Disincentive ?

if that's there goal in SL then they deserve it but I will always question why the equivalent of almost 14 island sims tier fees must be paid by others this month. Isnt dwell also paid daily? It's not enough? Im not picking a fight with anyone just stating my opinions. I simply dont do clubs or malls unless a friend is having a grand opening. Yet I must pay them

Its kind of odd, because I'm kind of with BOTH Sensual and Toy on this...

Dwell and the developer incentives were both created to encourage residents to create "space" that is attractive and draws people into SL.

If we look at the top dwell locations in SL, there are a lot of malls and clubs, so its a FACT that this is what people enjoy doing with their SL time. I'm not much of a mall shopper or club-hopper myself, but if that's what folks want to do, then more power to them.

As as been mentioned, dwell is a nice, easy-to-calculate and automated "metric" for measuring who is providing the most attractive "space" within our SL world. If LL wants to incentive people with both L$ and US$ to build such space, it makes sense to me.

However...

My problem with dwell as the ONLY way to offer incentives to residents to create content (and thus space) is that it actually encourages lag. It incentives people to create "space" within our SL world that fills up and reduces the experience for all, by lagging the area. Face it... when a sim has a couple dozen AV's in it, things usually start to get difficult for everyone there.

I would like to see LL offers incentives that encourage creative and exciting content that doesn't necessarily attract a lot of people at the same time. I'm not sure how this would be done, since there's no easy way to "measure" such creative and exciting content.

Toy has done some lovely work with her land in Jenner that really needs to be seen, but she's never going to get any incentive for her labors because she's not trying to build a space that gets a lot of AV's there all at the same time.

Or take my Iraqi War Memorial. Its a build I'm rather proud of, and I'm glad I made that contribution to the SL landscape, but its a fact that people don't spend a lot of time there, watching the names and pics scroll by.

So sure... keep dwell. It is an incentive that has its place. But let's try to offer other incentives too. Just because someone's "space" doesn't attract a lot of AV's, doesn't mean that LL shouldn't encourage it.

- Ace

Toy do you have any idea what you are talking about? or do you just bitch to bitch?
The dev incetives -I- receive does not even cover half of my tier... and if you figure in what I pay to others that help with Le Cadre, it does not pay ANY of it... honestly... how much do you think they get?

and YOU do NOT pay ANYONE!

I must agree with Sensual and Chip on this one. The system works perfectly. The only argument I may agree with is the developers incentive is misnamed. Perhaps polpularity incentives or dwell incentives would be more appropriate.

There will aways be those that count other people's money. If LL wants to take their money and reward people who have the most people spending the most time on their land, good for them. Once you have paid LL land fees, it's LL's money, not yours. And I love the fact people want awards based on totally subjective atttributes, I can't wait to see the forums after those types of awards are given.

I think this goes back to marketing, if you think your work is so great and want to be monetarily compensated, sell it or dwell it. Stop complaining that other people are making money for doing a great job attracting players. Or bitch at all the people dwelling at places that are inferior to your grand builds. Some of the breatest artists in RL are broke and unheard of, yet thousand of "hacks" are wealthy and famous. Why? Marketing.

P.S. Arch - If Texas Holdem is an indication of things to come, I expect to see you on that list very soon.

I pay all my tier from my own pocket, dont attack me sensual. What your saying is you do it to help pay your tier fee. I own what I can afford, I dont need dwell to help.

Now.. LL's income is based on income from members, memebers pay a monthly acct fee plus land tiers. Now since LL gives away 2700$ this month where does it come from hmmmm?
It comes from everyone in SL.

also the developer incentives is payed out to the people who own the most land, which i think does not equal anything to the developer incentives. They are getting money for being one of the top people paying LL.

I think, and im sure someone else has also said this, but that the way the developer incentives is decided SHOULD be changed, for the best. SO that people who do develope incredible things get the developer incentives.

Not the question is, how? What about building ratings?(hmm, well, i gues that wont be 100% accurate since you get people rating other people with:"I rated you3x, please rate me 3x back"Which i do not like, but i dont mind returning a Good Behavior rating to people.

I must agree with Sensual and Chip on this one. The system works perfectly. The only argument I may agree with is the developers incentive is misnamed. Perhaps popularity incentives or dwell incentives would be more appropriate.

There will aways be those that count other people's money. If LL wants to take their money and reward people who have the most people spending the most time on their land, good for them. Once you have paid LL land fees, it's LL's money, not yours. And I love the fact people want awards based on totally subjective atttributes, I can't wait to see the forums after those types of awards are given.

I think this goes back to marketing, if you think your work is so great and want to be monetarily compensated, sell it or dwell it. Stop complaining that other people are making money for doing a great job attracting players. Or bitch at all the people dwelling at places that are inferior to your grand builds. Some of the greatest artists in RL are broke and unheard of, yet thousand of "hacks" are wealthy and famous. Why? Marketing.

P.S. Arch - If Texas Holdem is an indication of things to come, I expect to see you on that list very soon.

It's not the award for dwell I have a problem with, it's the fact it's incorrectly being called a 'developer' award. As far as I'm concerned I'm all for giving a bonus to those that come up with places that are popular to visit, but that's not 'development', that's 'popularity'. Call it a 'most popular place' award if necessary. That doesn't make it 'development' though.

There are a lot of creative people in SL. I can only speak for myself, but many of my own creations are very complex and inventive (namely because I aim to be different). Frequently my creations may take days or weeks to create. But no matter how original/creative my creations will be, I'll simply never be able to even try for the developer award, because my creations dont attract hordes of people for hours on end. If I ran a club that offered dance balls and music streaming, I'd have a better chance - but what does any of that have to do with development?

Let's call a spade a spade, and get it done with. These awards are popularity/dwell awards, not developer incentive awards. At the very least let's call it what it is, rather than pretend it's something that it's not.


- Newfie Pendragon

LMFAO that is NOT what I am saying at all... I pay $400 a month, I cna afford it, I paid $2000 USD for the land I have in SL... dont talk to me about not be able to afford something.. MY POINT is! The dev incentives does not cover and Island tier, you are sadly mistaken.

AND IT COMES FROM THE PROFITS MADE TO LL!

okay...... I understand what your saying about the money, Schawnson and thanx for it

I guess I will simply accept it as a tax hehehe

and thank god I dont market, I would not want my builds overrun

You are confused, it has nothing to with how much land you own!

You didnt read my post well I said "The equivalent of" 2700/195=13.8 hence the equivalent of almost 14 sims

I stated the thing about affording what I pay simply to point out I dont and wont ever rely on dwell to help pay it

gonna leave this thread now, I mader my points and not ashamed of them in any way and I was wrong about it being mine since Schwan logically pointed it out to me

Sorry. I don't understand your reasoning here, Toy. It's LL's money to do with as they please. What difference does it make if they pay out some dwell incentives or buy everyone at LL a roast beef sandwich? Would you complain because you don't personally care for roast beef and don't feel that your money should be used to buy roast beef for others? It's a rather silly argument. No offense.

There's nothing at all wrong with people using their dwell money, dev incentives, or income from sales to subsidize their tiers and other fees. I do it. Most of what I do in SL is paid for by what I do in SL. If it wasn't, I wouldn't do as much. Right now it pays for my $195 tier fee and for my Live365 station. If it didn't, I wouldn't be at that tier or be pumping my own music onto my land. It used to be that people worked hard to bring in an income in SL to offset their prim and land taxes. The amount of resources you could use was determined by your ability to earn. It still works the same way, except now people have the option to pay whatever they're willing to pay for more resources without having to earn it in world. Personally I don't do what I do to line my pockets. I do it so I can do even more in SL... and buy the occasional roast beef sandwich

I hope you arent implying I rely on dwell to cover any costs... as I have stated I put more money into SL then one can probably imagine. I am also sure alot people do the same, since they give out cash prizes and they have "employees". Have a nice day Toy.. I may disagree with your posts here, but your AV is still cute as can be!

for one thing...who cares how anyone covers their SL costs.....has nothing to do with the original subject

IMO we need 2 possibly 3 'developer incentives'

- 1 as is....the dwell - takes time and effort tp attract people to some place
- 2 for 'creators', bulders, scripters and so on
- possible 3 - community contributors

just my 2 cents

Mmmmmmmmm roast beef!

I guess I never answered the initial question asked.....

Are the developer incentives actually encouraging you to continue creating or are they discouraging you because they are based on dwell?

I think the developer incentives can be a motivator for some to create. Basically if you have such high dwell, and you are selling products, you are likely to sell more. This is because you have more traffic. The amount paid to each individual is not that much. I am usually towards the middle to bottom of the list, and get about $30. This would be for monetarily driven creators.

The popular argument is that money is not required to create, that is 100% correct. But if you are a talented SL creator, who is not able to afford the land tier you desire, money becomes a necessary evil. And its very easy to make enough $L to sell for $USD to pay 1/2 a sim tier. Even if your first love is a totally non commercial no profit venture, subsidise it with a few well placed stores. And if your first attempt at commerce is not successful, keep trying. Great part about retail in SL, there is no production or warehouse costs, once you've created something, it sells forever.

When it says top 2%, does it mean top 2% of dwell earners, or top 2% of land owners ranked by dwell (which is how i read it)

Ie, if i had 1024m of land total, but got 28k dwell a day on it, would i be in that list?

Or, if i owned 128K of land, and got 1000dwell on it a day, would that do it because now im in the top 2% of land owners?

Anyone?

Why? Do people really need a monetary incentive to create? If so, then how people pay for their tier costs IS relevant, obviously. If people aren't looking for subsidies then why do we need any developer incentives at all?

Arch, the people who get high dwell put in long hours to get up there. The work may not be the same but I think what Sens does is way harder than scripting. You'd be up there as well if you teamed up with one of them and split the profits.

Since clubs get the most dwell, one could easily argue that games do not further the development of SL and everyone should focus on building cooler particles machines for clubs.

TH could easily be at the top week after week but you need marketing and connections and PR. Ask the high dwell people for some tips. Maybe strike a deal to some advertising at their locations?




Have you seen the Open Source Metaverse Project? http://metaverse.sourceforge.net

I contributed some small features but SL scripting is just too fun. I can't stay away. If I ever find myself idle in SL I will get back into OSMP.



Here's a radical idea. This is what ya gotta do. Get rid of dwell for everyone EXCEPT for private SIM's. Get rid of stipends and bonues while your at it. Make us get a job in a private sim or buy our own private sim or buy $ on GOM if we want $L's.

Actually..

The problem is that your choice of reasoning claims an injury. For the same reason that a U.S. Citizen cannot bring law suits against the government with standing based solely on an injury claimed by the use of governement collected taxes, you also have no real substantive reason to claim an injury because you pay money to LL which you now perceive to be paying developer incentive awards.

Unfortunately since I'm a bachelor arts graduate with zero math skills... My postulate is that the $125/mo land tier you pay to Linden Lab equates to less than a fraction of a penny (0.01) of what the total award paid out in developer incentives ($2700). This being the case, you have zero vested interest in the dev. incentive cash award. Even if out of your $125/m, $0.10 cents (or even a dollar) of it went to the Dev. Incentives that interest is so small so as to give you zero standing.. Why would a penny share holder have any voice in a million dollar company? Just because i pay a monthly to to a company does not grant me a controlling interest nor give me a claim of injury through their use of the financial expidentures.

Your injury certainly is not monetary if you have truly considered the size of the user base, the varying land tiers, etc.. and find that you have a substantial investment in the monthly paid Dev. Incentive Award, enough to claim an injury as you have, then you are not really being rational. So maybe this is something else, because usually, you are on point.

Often it seems when people start an excoriating thread about 'dwelloper incentives', it more often than not look's personal - that person is often a content creator of extremely high if not gifted talent but feels as if their contributions are not cared for or respected and maybe not rewarded under the current system of rewards made availble to residents by LL. And if this were the only issue, I believe we would see more 'ideas' than denigrations.

I suppose on one level I could say "don't playa hate, congratulate", but instead we could also look at it as recognizing that these places of high dwell - irregardless of the content - bring a heightened level of entertainment, excitement, and awe to the Second Life experience of the average resident. This is what is being trumpeted as a positive and rewarded by LL. You beautiful people with your beautiful things so unrecognized should form a group, deed your lands and share your creations with one another and the public --ahh a museum, gallery?-- and then share in the dwell as your creations bring the interested. Oh ya, eventing helps

Anywho... I don't get it...

Briana Dawson


Briana Dawson

Yes you would be on the list...
it has nothing to do with the amount of land you own, but you must OWN the land to get the reward.

Ahh, so its totally based on dwell then sensual? My misunderstanding then, though tit was given to the top 2% land owners and then ranked by dwell.

But if someone could own 512m of land and still be on that list due to 28k dwell (ok, 512 isnt going to support that crowd normally, but you get the idea) then thats a little different


I do agree with others though, it should be named Dwell incentives, or Popularity awards.

Developers Incentives don't affect my decisions on what I'll create one way or the other. I'm not going to buy a huge plot of land and build Club Generic, or turn SL into a job by having to host daily events, so I'll never be elligable for the common type of Incentive anyway. That's just not a route I choose to take, and I don't much care who owns a lot of land and spends a lot of time trying to get people to go there. If that's what they choose to do with their SL and their money, that's their business, but it's of no interest to me.

I haven't entered any of the themed developer's incentive awards, but I'm far more interested in those than I am the others. Those, I actually care who won, and with what.

Yep, that's how it works Arch. The amount of land owned isn't a factor. It's purely based on the number of people who spend more than five minutes on your land, regardless of how much you own.