Developer's Incentive = Disincentive ?

I know it has been brought up over and over. But I feel it is worth reiterating to the Lindens.

This is directed to all of you building unique items, writing new code and generally innovating within the game. Are the developer incentives actually encouraging you to continue creating or are they discouraging you because they are based on dwell?

Granted all the clubs and event driven dwell players should be a large part of the incentive program. But this is specifically targeted to those that develop but get no dwell for their efforts.

grrrrrrr.... each month when the dwellopment awards are listed I get in a grumpy mood hehehe

Okay..... I cant understand why the developement must be tied to dwell. I get the feeling each month when a part of my 125$ land use fees go to places I seldom if ever go to. At the higher land use fees we already get a huge discount. It's like the poor supporting a huge corporation.

I guess its easier to base it on dwell because then the programing can do it and the program ignores content. Maybe the old Vote Machines would be better for it, dunno. They were done away with shortly after I came to SL. All I do know is I dislike how it is now and would rather see the whole thing junked.

Toy thats why its the dwellopers incentive

I develop for myself and those who enjoy it, sure it would be nice to get paid for it... but thats not why I do it.

I do think real developers are getting shafted on this though.

And having themed compititions for stuff, while nice, isn't enough.

I wouldn't blame anyone for feeling discouraged.

I just realized something thats even a little more disturbing... that money that goes to dwellopers, more than likely comes from users, so anyone paying is practicly paying dwellopers. (not saying that anyone should stop paying... just saying)

I've been of the opinion the dwellopment awards should be split into two separate awards - one for dwell (to reward those actually actually hosting/attracting people), and a a separate award that really does reward development.

Calling it a 'developer's award' when it's based on dwell is like giving the nobel peace prize for best chocolate cake. The chocolate cake may be good, but it's sure not making world peace.

And to answer the original question...nope, dont feel the slightest bit of incentive from these awards. Feedback from the public and the small-but-steady trickle from sales has been incentive enough to keep creating.

- Newfie Pendragon

Exactly my point, Oz I dont mind paying my monthly land use fees but I dislike it going to other people who simply have dwell.
Dwell=popularity......... Popularity doesnt = development.... sales maybe but not development

Nod, it irks me too

I created a new thing, it was popular, frequently resulting in my PG land beign #1 or #2 vs all other PG land on dwell, but nowhere near sex clubs on mature land.

So its not a developer incentive. Rename it, call it the Popularity Incentive, because thats what it truly is, who can get the most people to their place, which does have a place in SL.

Then make a developer award thats purely based on Linden opinion. Have folks submit what they have done in a 1 page report on the 30th, take 3 days read em and rank em, then make awards.

Dwell works fine. What you have to do is team up with someone who knows how to get dwell and have them install your games. Or it might be simply that there are way more people in SL who like sex clubs. Make a sex game and see how you dwell goes.

No matter what you do, there will always be people who complain and say the system is against them so changing dwell will just change the argument. Clothiers might say "ya now the scripters are happy but I spend way more time making clothes. I should get rewarded if people are wearing my clothes." Teach people how to get dwell and the problem goes away.

I dont seek dwell so it basically is a non-entity to me. What I object to is a portion of my monthly payment goes to others who seek out dwell. And dwell could be considered sales but please, not development
For or against it, a portion of everones payment goes to pay those who seek it. I dont even go to 99% of the places who get a portion of my monthly payment. I strikes me as wrong

Hah! You think people complain about developer incentives now? Imagine if it was based on the subjective opinions of a few Lindens. Then you'd really hear people bitch. Dwell was chosen as the basis for the developer incentives because it's the only objective and easy to measure guage of the popularity of various attractions. It's fine to wish that there were rewards given out for other things but how would you have an objective measure of them? It's not fine to call people "dwellopers" because the attractions they built aren't your cup of tea. It's condescending and rude. People make this assumption that those who win the awards for their various clubs and malls are just greedy dwell farmers. I'd say that those who resent them for winning the incentives are just as greedy. Why else would you care that they get one and you don't? The payout amounts for the dev incentives are a pittance. They don't compare to what you can earn through sales or admission charges. If money isn't the issue, then you should be taking your reward from the appreciation of those people who enjoy your attractions, objects, clothing, or whatever it is you do. If it IS about the money and you resent that mall, club, and casino owners are getting money and you're not, then take a good look in the mirror. You're just the pot calling the kettle black.

Chip, the people with high dwell already get a daily dwell payment in L$. My problem with the $USD given monthly comes from a portion of my monthly payment to LL. It's not a choice its just there. I dont strive for dwell, doubt if I'd like it. Pay them in L$, it's not coming from my pocket then. They can then do as they please with it but it wont involve me then

Here's a thought.

How about a nominations process? Each month, for a limited time, a nomination Web page is made available to submit nominations for that month's developer incentive. There would be a few fields for describing the project, its merits and justification for nomination.

Then, after the nomination period closes, <gasp> create a voting object that captures one (and only one) vote per character. (Or, maybe voting is also a Web page or forum element, instead.)

OK, OK. Yes, there would probably need to be a review committee (perhaps including both Lindens and players) that would cull through the submissions to ensure they meet a minimum set of pre-defined criteria. (Some of that could be automated through the Web form submission process, as well...)

Otherwise, LL should consider calling the program something other than a developer incentive.

Cycle through the dwell "types" every month.

Make one month developer's incentives SOLELY for sellers of objects... top 25 sellers get a cash money bonus.

Next month, make it for dwell.

Month after that, make it for scripters somehow.

Month after that, make it for the top ratings-givers... I don't know.

Basically don't kepe throwing money at the clubs EVERY month. If you cut off their constant supply of money to support their ridiculous seizure cubes, you'd see a lot less shoddily-done clubs.

LF

Everyone in these forums pretty much hate me as it is for my bluntness and honesty... what the hell? Why stop now?

I am sick of seeing every damn month people complaining about the dev incentives... dwellopers or whatever you chose to call them. I have been on that list since the first month I owned land in SL... and you know what? I work damn hard for it! I hold daily events, I pay a staff in Le Cadre, I provide great customer service to those visitng the shops from various merchants... I promote EVERY merchant in Le Cadre, I run a daily bingo event. I give an entire island to the community for them to shop and enjoy, and ask nothing in return! I don't make a single Linden from it. But yet my effort is DAILY!

If you are a great builder or scripter, that is fantastic, but what the hell good is it if the public can't enjoy it? Either you are making money by SELLING your creation, or you have it sitting somewhere that no one knows about so it does the community no good. If you want to be awarded for your creations... PROMOTE THEM! Make them availble to the public, let people know they exist.. have events for them and get the "dwelloper" incentive... or sell them...

They have as much right to complain about incentive as you do every time dwell doesn't get paid.

First off, I dont want or need dwell, I dont need to use SL as a money making tool. In the same sense I dont like a portion of my payment going to others who do. Why does every statement that is pro-dwell have to come down to money? Is that all that is left in SL?
I enjoy quiet places in SL, I enjoy wandering and seeing things others have built. I will always be against a portion of my payment going to others simple based on dwell. Why wouldnt the monthly dwell payment be accecptable in L$?
I keep hearing month after month the same old arguments why it's a good thing, but it's always ferom the same people. This has been the first time in months that Ive been in SL that I've spoken out against it. I felt I had something to say about it and will continue to do so.

Good on ya Toy I'm with you on this.

I just mostly object to it being called developer awards. They develope nothing, argue it though you may. Its Popularity Awards, which is fine, but call it like it should be.

High dwell is important to LL because it means someone has set up a feature that folks enjoy, which means they play SL and maybe mention it to their friends.

However, Opening a club does not further then development of SL.

Give me the source code to LSL, then you will see some "development"

I never complain about dwell "not being paid" ... I do not know if you have any idea what dwell pays out daily... it is nothing to gripe about, I have never received over $L300 Lindens for a day in dwell... BUT when the dwell points are not being accounted for daily, there is no popular places list... and that is where my concern comes in.... I would work just as hard to promote Le Cadre if it were not paid, as long as it means to be on that list. Being on the popular places brings people in, allows people to see what myself, my builders, and the merchants of Le Cadre have to offer. That is what is important to me.
Before I owned Le Cadre, I owned quite a bit of land in Leda, we had a small mall... and I worked my ass off to make new designers known. I use to get about $75 a day in dwell payment... not to mention all the money and prizes to give away... This has nothing to do with money. What it does have to do with, is providing a place of interest to the community.

You'd be paying your monthly payment no matter what, Toy. It's not like LL was going to refund you some on a whim, right? So if LL takes some of that money and pays out a dev incentive with it, what difference does it make? It doesn't affect your SL experience in any way if you aren't personally trying to compete to win an award so I'm not sure I understand why it bothers you (or anyone else for that matter). There were malls, clubs, and casinos long before there were developer incentives.

It would be fun to see some other reward mechanisms, like nominations and voting, or rewards based on number of items in circulation, or any number of other things. But... no matter what they do people are still going to bitch about it (the voting wasn't fair. It's just a popularity contest. blah blah blah).

People need to seek their own rewards... the pleasure of creativity and community, pats on the back from people who dig your stuff, friends, income from sales or admissions, or whatever it is that makes you happy. People need to stop looking to LL for those pats on the back, and stop resenting those people who get them and belittling their contributions to the community. I'm with Sensual. These threads really irk me.

Sorry about that, I meant to say when it inadverdantly gets reset. We all know they will catch up and pay it out. I was simply trying to point out that those folks who speak out about the incentive have as much right as anyone else to make statements about issues which bother them.

How does it come from YOUR pocket? Regardless you have to pay what you pay... The Lindens are the ones taking a cut in thier profits to pay this out , not YOU. But if you feel so strongly about it, give me your address I will send you the half cent (if even that much) that came from YOUR POCKET"

edited typos..

Again... it is not about being paid out... please re read my post... and I never said they do not have a right to bitch... they do just as much as anyone else... but what people do not understand is those on the dev list, are working around the clock daily, its not just a one time creation... I am a designer and animator... I know where they are coming from, but you know what? I did something about it... I put up my store, along with many others and I do things to attract people there. and when people come for an event, they see my creations along with others in Le Cadre... and if they don't leave buying one of my creations 9 times out of 10 they leave buying from another designer that has set up in Le Cadre.

I won't argue your points at all. I have been to Le Cadre many times and made purchases from you as well. I understand your post as I read it. "I am sick of seeing every damn month people complaining about the dev incentives... dwellopers or whatever you chose to call them." That is the statement I was making my point about. Truce.

Sorry if I made it seem that they don't have a right to post thier opinion or suggestions... but what pisses me off is when they bitch about it, and by doing so they try and belittle those on that list, or make it seem they do not deserve it.