Omg They Did It!

Robin's post doesn't make it sound like a negotiable topic.

I agree with the sentiment that predatory adults are more likely in infiltrate the youth SL, than vice-versa.

Exactly why it's important that:

1. Linden Labs protect themselves through legal language and agreements and have all parties agree to those contracts.
   
2. Parents should learn that while thier children might be in the safety of thier home, they could *still* be in danger.
   

It is foolish to try to 'blame' Linden Labs, or any other online content provider, for something like that. It's like trying to sue a library because they created an environment where the possibility exists for a child to come in contact with a predator.


That's your opinion Billy. I feel exactly the opposite. As a kid, I had good relationships with a few adults. I learned alot of them, and cherish those moments.

Of course, I'm talking about the non-sexual kind of relationships.... what are you talking about?


I predict you'll be proven wrong. From an expansion viewpoint, like it or not, teens are voracious consumers of games, both online and offline. This game has the potential to actually TEACH them something:

1. Programming skills
   
2. Social networking skills
   
3. Graphic skills
   
4. 3d design skills (limited, but at least introductory)
   

Sure, there will be plenty of crass conversation and role-playing, but it's barely different than what goes on at school during recess/lunch.

Because by creating a place that is primarily kid populated, they're essentially creating a premium hunting ground for pedophiles, predators, and other nasty folk. A place that basically has a giant glowing neon sign saying "Innocent victims here!"

Everyone keeps saying that "SL has to grow to survive." Well if that's the case, and LL is planning on kids being the "new growth", how are they planning on keeping up with the growth? Either they're going to need to hire a Linden KidMonitor for every ten or so sims, or they're going to have to just let the whole world go largely unmonitored. Neither seems like a very good solution. The first makes the growth largely pointless, as all (or more) of the money gained by it goes towards someone's pay, and the second isn't smart as no one is there protecting the kids.

I'm curious how an SL kid-grid game is any different than other online environment games that are very popular, have been running for a long time successfully, and have figured out ways to combat these issues? Wouldn't it stand to reason that LL has researched how these other companies deal with these issues? If these horrible things are not happening in other online teen worlds, why would they happen here? If they do happen in other online worlds and are successfully delt with, why could it not be successfully delt with on the SL kid grid? I guess I just cannot see a difference.

Exactly Pendari! I'll bet they *have* researched this... alot.

Let's also not forget that although they are teens and for the mostpart they're not brainless walking bags of flesh. They are observant, aware individuals and *IF* their parents have done a good job, they'll be aware of the dangers in every online game and chat environment.

Well for one you cant make a penis in TSO but you and in SL.

This is NOT about LL being “protected”, it is about KIDS being protected Juro!



“Should” is the key word in that sentence. Sadly many wont.


It is foolish to think it is perfectly fine to create an environment that is conducive to abuse and WILL be readily accessible to the sickoes that will inhabit kiddie SL right beside your 13 year old little girl. We all know that kids are vulnerable and that they WILL be taken advantage of. Does ANYONE really dispute this? If just one kid is hurt by this it is one too many and not worth it.



One question, did your parents know about these relationships? If not then yes, it is my opinion, they are not appropriate.



Unless you do not understand the words “ANY relationship”, my position is perfectly clear.



Oh, I agree that there are possible benefits to kiddie SL but ask yourself if it is worth a kid being hurt. I say no.



I see… the ole “it is done somewhere else so it is ok” argument. That kind of justification is dangerous. Furthermore, you say that like “crass conversation and role-playing” is ok. (I am assuming you are also referring to sexual role-playing) Just because it may be happening other places does NOT mean it is acceptable behavior for a 13 year old. I respectfully disagree with you Juro.

Some realy great kids with realy great releatiionships with their outstanding parents have been the victems of pedophiles.

No matter how good we are at raising our childern there are freaks out there working on ways around the rules. Its what they do. "hey little girl can you help me find my dog" sounds innocent enough doesn't it. Well its not innocent at all.

You can NOT possibly believe that. Yes, some will police themselves but the majority will not. Even if you disagree with the statement that the majority will not police themselves you can fairly say that many will not.

" If just one kid is hurt by this it is one too many and not worth it. "

Exactly!

We are in a position to say no right now. Instead of "I am so sorry that happened" a year from now.

Its a scary world.

Cat

What is or is not considered "immediate? * 2 months seems fairly immediate to me. *Gets ready for the player government*

Robin Linden: (posted exactly 2 months ago)
...However, we have no immediate plans to let teens join Second Life as part of the mainstream community.

Other than learning "networking skills" my kid can learn everything else that is a "benefit" of SL from Bryce, and c+ for dummies.

Cat

Gawd Nolan dont get me started on that one.

Hugz

Cat

LOL... nice observation Cat & Nolan!

Billy, Cat...

The predators ARE out there, unfortunately. So, as a society, what are we to do? We try to protect our kids, as best as possible, but at what point does it become a burden and counter-productive?

They hang out at the schools, libraries, malls, movie theaters.. wherever there are kids, they are probably (at some point) lurking around there.

So, do we close down all of the schools, libraries, malls, and movie theaters? No, we don't... we'd have to shut down every place that kids go to escape thier parents and hang out with thier friends.

In addition, comparing these RL situations with a virtual situation isn't really fair. In RL, those places have adults that can intervene when a questionable situation arises between a kid and another adult. In a virtual world, there *could* be adults monitoring the situation (via chat logs, etc), but the key is the parent. The parent should ask questions, and not be afraid to shut off service if the kid doesn't answer.

A virtual environment does have some advantages over RL in these types of situations. First, there is no direct (physical) contact. The nature of a virtual world allows more time for intervention by a monitor or parent. Second, a virtual environment offers much less anonymity than RL does. Rl doesn't have chat logs or your CC and IP information.

Look, I agree with you both that the kids should be protected, but where are you suggesting we draw the line? The mall? The library? The school?

And they can pick up a Crayola.. grab some paper and draw one. Your point?

Rationalize = Rational Lies (satire)

To answer your question, I am in favor of doing anything and everything possible to protect children. We will not solve ALL of the problems of the world on this forum but I can clearly see one that can be avoided in the creation of kiddie SL.

That’s just my opinion, no offense to you personally Juro but we can agree to disagree here. I will never be in favor of the creation of kiddie SL.

I understand that Billy. You evidentally missed my entire point.

I'm sorry Billy... I don't believe it is fact that they, as you put it, 'WILL' be taken advantage of. I think, as adults, through safeguards and education can seriously reduce the risk to our kids, AND still let them enjoy being a kid.

Yes, they knew about it.. but you seemed to lump all relationships with adults as a 'no-no'.

You know what they say about assuming, Billy. No, I wasn't referring to 'sexual role-playing'. When I was a teen it was more like 'playing house' w/o the sexual connotations.

Believing that you can stop kids from this type of activity be controlling them is just as dangerous Billy.

With that logic Billy, you better start your crusade to not allow unsupervised teens in the malls, movie theaters, water parks, libraries... etc.

Good luck with that.

a way maybe top deal with foul language in the Teen SL could be one of those key logger things or something. When they try to say (insert dirty word here), it will be changed into something like "eggroll" or something.

For mature content, they should be given a warning, they do it again, simply suspend thier account and contact thier mummys.

A profanity filter is an excellent idea. I'm sure LL is already looking into something like that, and if not.. *nudge* LL: you should.

Mature content is a little more difficult. Unless LL instituted a submission/approval process for content (similar to There), they would have little control over the M rated content other than defensive. Offensive would be a There-like approval system, which isn't a bad idea either.

No other game offers the freedom of creativity that SL does. No other game (that I know of, with the possible exception of that Hello Kitty World that isn't out yet) caters EXCLUSIVELY to 13-17 year olds. Those are the primary differences.

Agreed. I'm sure that they'll just use mummy's.


Excellent parenting on your part. Of course, if I had been your kid, it would have drove me crazy.


Am I? Personally, I would be MUCH more concerned about my kids leaving the house, buddy system or not, than sitting in front of a computer where I *know* where they are, and can find out who they are chatting with.

It's a two-part attack, Cat. You put all the responsibility on LL, and none on yourself. As a parent, if your child was to join an online game, you should make it very, VERY clear that they understand all of those things you mention: you have NO idea who is behind the avatar. You will NOT meet anyone in RL w/o my attendance. Etc...

I'm not saying you should plop your kids down in Teen SL and cross your fingers.. I'm saying work with LL (and othe providers) on ways to reduce the risk AND.. here comes the kicker: talk with your kids to make sure they understand the realities. Clip some stories out of the paper... make them understand there is a real risk.



Yes, Cat.. I do. Actually, I have a very personal experience with child abduction and molestation. It was not an online situation, as many aren't. Those make the news too. And you're right.. they're not adults, but they could be prepared.. sadly many are not, as in my experience.