Omg They Did It!

Very well said Shad, I complety agree with you!

Cat

David read both of your posts. AGAIN.

Cat

Yeah I hear ya. *sigh* I just hope all for the best.

Ok..I read them both word for word again. Still have no idea what part you seem to be so down on. I am merely stating realities of the world.

David its great that you are so pro active in your childs life. When my kid was 12 he/she could talk to me about everything but as kids turn into teens they change. They are not always as open as we would like.

Now what about those kids who are not as open with their parents. Those are the kids that I worry about. Those are the kids that everyone should worry about.

Cat

How quickly can you make a prim penis? Where there is a will there is a way. LL can stop little johnny and suzie from Cyber in SL but they cannot stop yahoo messenger. There is no way to control what will happen. Again too many what if's for my taste.

Cat

Daivd you wrote this;

"
Originally Posted by David Valentino
Folks...most of our darling little 13-17 year olds are not wide-eyed and innocent. You don't think they are being exposed to sexually oriented material-words-acts on a daily basis in RL now? Hell..my son is 11, about to be 12, and he constantly shocks me with the phrases he already knows. Many of them are probably already sexually active, or could be if they chose. So I wouldn't worry overly much if Bobby and Trish try to bump pixels at some point. "

"Many of them are probably already sexually active, or could be if they chose, So I woldn't worry overly much if Bobby and Trish try to bump pixels at some point"

That disturbs me becuase I take it to mean "well they would if they could if they arn't already, so let em"

If that isn't what you ment please explain what you did mean by that statement as I find ANY 11 year old having sex VERY disturbing.

Cat

Ya know I think there is some short sighted vision here that some are not grasping the concept of the context.

First: everyone here knows SL has mature Content and Avatar Sex takes place and many carry on conversations ranging from overtly sexual to Sadistic commentary at time in open mature sim conversations. This I don't think anyone can disagree with me on.

The issue is...Currently SL is associated with Mature Conduct.

Thus the same parent company making a Kiddie grid...just like with the perceptions of certain players in game people will assume OMG The Kiddie grid is gonna run rampant with Kiddie Avatars ...Prostituting/screwing/ and having genralized fucked up conversations that they wouldnt otherwise.


The problem is this "perception" can be picked up on by the childeren of these parents that play SL. So what does that mean. Well some people use computers as a babysitter. Those Kids that do have these perceptions or more mature thought processes are going to imprint this on the younger members just through association just like in RL. What does that mean to those of us on the main grid. Those kids are kids they are curious and some of them more nosey than the one guy who used to find hidden sims before they popped up. They will make the migration to the main grid and they will be kids and when they do we are all in trouble because....its kid nature. There is no way around this other than what I mentioned....it never should have been announced as a striat line affiliation. Why because this does exactly what I mentioned it opens doors to the minds of those children that are curious by nature.

Shadow

I agree. I worry about all the children of the world, and often. However, there being a Kid-Grid that is run in a responsible manner (which I believe LL will certainly try to do), does not adversly effect anyone, anymore than any other online chat environment, and much less so than many.

Do you honestly believe that all kids, ages 13-17 should be sheltered from any sexual reference completely and utterly? If so, they should not be allowed to go to school, watch any television, including PBS and the Learning Channel, walk outside the house, listen to music, watch any movies, including Disney, or read the Old Testement. And perhaps they should be blindfolded and wear earplugs as well?

I would think a far better plan is to treat sex as part of natural evolvement in a persons life, and just take steps to educate children against improper or dangerous advancements or situation.

Why is this Kid-Grid going to damage children or hurt them? Why is it greatly increasing the chances of this? The kid-grid is for KIDS! Do you let your child go on AOL or any other chat enabled environment? Because if so, the chances are much greater in those that they will be subjected to sexual conversations or the attention of pedophiles.

I'm curious how an SL kid-grid game is any different than other online environment games that are very popular, have been running for a long time successfully, and have figure out ways to combat these issues? Wouldn't it stand to reason that LL has researched how these other companies deal with these issues? If these horrible things are not happening in other online teen worlds, why would they happen here? If they do happen in other online worlds and are successfully delt with, why could it not be successfully delt with on the SL kid grid? I guess I just cannot see a difference.

This is different because Mature content is stressed a lot and openly, it's not a 'back door' type thing like it is in other enviornments.

Well..that's how you read it, but that isn't what i said. So there isn't anything I can do about how you interpet things. I said I wouldn't worry overly much about kids aged 13-17 trying to bump pixels (simulate sexual situations in the Kid-grid). For one, I'm sure LL will frown on such behavior, and secondly, sexual exploration is a natural part of human development. Ever play with barbie dolls? If you think your 13-17 year old doesn't already talk about sex to thier friends..then you are terribly naive or raising a repressed child that has a good chance of suffering from guilt, emotional immaturity and deep seated feelings of self-loathing.

Do I think it appropriate that a bunch of kids run around having av sex in the Kid-grid. certainly not and I absolutely do not condone it or believe it will happen. But am I gonna run screaming in cirlces if two kids, ages 13-17, sneak off somehow and manage to "pretend" to have sex in an online environment? Umm..no I'm not.


And btw, I never said anything about 11 year olds having sex. I said my 11 year old son shocks me with some of the adult phrases he learns.

That is only true if you are talking about mixing the two enviroments. That is not what they are going to do though. This will be a whole other world. A whole other game in many aspects. If they called it Lindenland, or Kiddie Metaverse, would it be better do you think?

Yes I think naming it differently they would do better at it.

I agree with you on that one.

Late in the game again, but having found out about the possibility of a teen area, I'm excited. My kids often want to try to do things in SL and I'm afraid I might get in trouble, so I don't want them to "take control" of my avatar. Yet, I think SL is so impossibly cool! and would love to have my children "play" in there. Why?

1. learn to type faster
2. learn to model in 3d (which they can already do a little, since I’m really into that)
3. learn to script (beginnings of computer programming)
4. Super imaginative, stretch creativity with immediate feedback.
5. Learn how to manage their money! Yes, they’ll be better equipped than I was going into the “real world”

I think they follow my directions very well when It comes to internet rules of safety. They’ve been good about it so far. We all sit in a corner of the family room, all the computers in a clutch… so internet access is always supervised by default, since we’re all together. Which brings me to another aspect of our “new age” household…. Believe it or not, computer games in our family are a social event in our house. Like board games in the old days were. My Mother (and Sister) and probably my in-laws think we’re nuts. That we’re not “normal” and that’s all true. But, I’m not so sure that we’re missing out on anything just because we aren’t “traditional”. Ask my kids in a decade……..

Of course we know what goes on in RL but why invite trouble. There are already games out there for kids. LL does not have the man power necessary to watch what these kids do or dont do.

Cat

I would feel better about that Pen. Cat

I think I mentioned that earlier Pen. It kinda goes back to what we debated the other day with the perception concept.


I totaly agree had this been brought out under a different name and for that matter under a different or sub company title the association of the two worlds would be further segregated.

Why Segregate the two? Simply this as I stated earlier the perception is SL is heavly laden with mature content. Thus because SL belongs to LL and it holds all the variables that the "Kiddie Grid" will hold such as building/Scripting/Land owership ect. Those Children are inevitably going to get curious.

Currently it has been stated there will be no direct Grid Cross over...this is understandable. But if they get in there and know there is another world in which adults play. They being most inquisitive and curious children are going to seek out SL.
When this happens, thats when the problems are going to start.

Please dont misunderstand me Im not saying dont make a Kiddie grid.

I am saying for the love of the children dissassociate one with the other. This will allow two things most will be new children and never heard of Second Life and those will be the ones that wont have a clue.

Then your going to have the ones that are children of parents that play Second Life.
Those are the ones that half will be controlled moderately for the most part but because some are on Mom or Dad's CC for Kiddie Grid.

..They will want to explore and make an alt on daddy or Mommies world to see if they can get away with it.

Again its human nature to be curious.

I'm not debating Moral nor sexual connotation but I am looking at placing safeguards to protect not only the children but the adults as well.

Without that it leaves a lot of doors open that could inevitably lead to the destruction of the world we all love so much because of the angst of one angry parent whose child was exposed to the Maturity of Second Life.

I hope that made sense.

Shadow

Yah, But it's still completely up to the parents to watch what is going on with their kids. If I thought that my kids had a chance at getting in real trouble because they don't obey me, or are unreliable, or if I thought my kids would be seduced to things I wouldn’t approve of, I definitely would never allow them to join. As it is, one kid just loves art, 3d modeling and “world creation” and the other might just want to explore, chat, socialize, but doesn’t seem to tend toward anything off color. I talk openly with them about the ills of the world/life (not that it’s any different now than it was in 1930, 1845, 1620, or 3000bc for that matter) But I have a nephew whom I’d watch like a hawk if he came over to play on the internet. He has a tendency to be curious. I’ve caught him ;P Not that I get angry, but he does have to listen to my lectures then, hee hee hee. Probably worse for him. With him, if he were mine, no, I wouldn’t let him go on kiddie SL. So it’s up to the parents to know what their kids can and can’t be trusted with.

Frankly, I think my nephew doesn’t get straight info from his parents, or doesn’t feel free to ask, and therefore is more curious. My kids get more info than they want from me, hee hee. You can guess which one of us is “right” in our Mom’s eyes (but who’s kids are less likely to get into that kind of trouble?) Of course, my kid will say anything to get out of doing homework!!! Gotta look over the work every night ;P! Well, nobody’s perfect!

Well i dont think it's a great idea to have kids in SL. SL is far to sexy for kids. i know there is alot more to see and do in SL but this is an 18 + game. so the sex part of it is always going to be there. At the same time tho kids will be in SL. Linden labs would have a very hard time trying to stop kids from coming to SL. because first off Kids love to explore. and there are alot of parents out there that would give the kid an ok or setup an AV. for them. in a case like that its all up to the parents to watch what is going on. but then again some parents dont care

It is??!! I guess I missed that...

What I want to know is exactly HOW is LL going to ensure that a person who's on the kiddy grid IS under 18? Personally, I'd like to visit the kiddy grid from time to time, myself, but I have to wonder: Will it be against the rules? Will I be able to? Plus all the other questions people have brought up...

God, this is a can of worms. LL's stupid. Stupid stupid stupid.

My biggest question as well. Most of them will be using mom and dad's card to pay, so how do we know they're not actually the cardholder?

Would be nice to hear a bit more on this from LL>

I don't understand why the topic of kids comming into SL keeps coming up? Also, what makes NOT having a teen version/world safer for teens? I mean, do you think parents are going to allow their kids access to SL because now they have teenSL available, but wouldn't have given them access before? Makes no sence?? My kids don't play SL, not allowed inside, but there is so much SL has to offer, that I'm sure my kids would like, if only it were kept "clean". In fact, during beta, I let my kids play a bit, and build until I found out it wasn't allowed. Since then, they've asked if they could go in and explore, but I've said no. When I'm on, I try to stay in PG sims so they don't see anything as well.

If there is a "Kiddie Sim" (and if you call it that, it'll fail for sure, hee hee hee) I don't see why they'd even ask me if they could go in SL. My SL account is password protected, my computer password protected, I don't see how they'd get on SL, any easier than they could now.??

Only think I would want to be sure of is that either no adults can get in there (and screw with the kids) Or actually, better still, allow adults to go in there, so everyone can expect that adults may be around, and be, in this way, more wary of with whom they're talking.

Assume nothing about the person you're talking to (that they are a child) and keep it clean.

Brave new world requires brave new rules of conduct for kids. Don't go near cars, talk to strangers, give away your address/name/phone #, etc.... It's all the same, nothing has really changed.

This is a colossal mistake! We all know how horrible LL is at policing the game now and unless they are planning on dedicating many many more hours of manpower policing the kiddie site they are just asking for trouble. I can see it becoming really ugly really quickly. Just ask yourself if you would let your kids play SL now, even on PG land? The answer for me is a loud NO WAY.

It is an extremely DANGEROUS idea to do this and I hope that cooler heads will prevail. They should look at more than profits. This decision could very well be the end of SL as we know it. Imagine the horrible press WHEN, not if, a parent sues SL because they caught their 13 year old cybering with an adult they met in kiddie SL. It doesn’t necessarily have to happen in SL either. I can see the pedophile making friends with a kid and luring him/her to cyber on yahoo or some other chat thingy.

Personally I have no interest whatsoever in ever in any kind of relationship with anyone under aged. I don’t want to be friends, I don’t want to be buddies, I don’t want to chat about the weather, I don’t want to chat about ANYTHING. It is inappropriate for ANY adult to have ANY kind of relationship with a minor without talking to their parents first and probably still not appropriate then either.

I predict that this will blow up and spread a very bad light on all of us, as outsiders will probably not differentiate SL and kiddie SL. Once kiddie SL earns a horrible reputation, fairly or not we will all share that bad reputation.

Please WAKE UP Linden Labs and kill this idea now!