Consistent Message: SL is/isn't a game

This be the simple one!

It's whatever YOU want it to be. So Joe Schmuck thinks its a marketing platform.. big woop! Not gonna change what I do!

What do you do next?

Whatver makes you happy. Whatever you can think of.

If at the end of the day you enjoyed yourself -- YOU WON!

Thats the way I look at it anyways.

Funny, I didn't realize LL relocated the servers from 365 Main to your bedroom ...


Yes, and Bill knew when an allegory is an allegory.


Well, you're posting, so you do.

But I think it's important to market SL properly. If we close ourself into a "game" mindset, we will never get past it to the Metaverse.

When I log into SL it's on a screen in my bedroom... from my viewpoint.. SL is in my bedroom - and so are all the pretty kens and barbies... to me its right here!

Like when I turn on the TV.. its in my livingroom.

Halo - Game or Stage? - Bill saw the world as a stage.. anyone else thinking otherwise didn't make it less so for him, didn't make less of a world for anyone else either.

And for the last - totally false assumption... I am trying to work out why its such a big deal that I or someone else think of it as a game..

Honestly you could call it Nancy Reagan the Online Experience and I wouldn't care less.. but why is it a big deal what others think of it as?

And of course there is an element of 'f*cking with people' that can't be denied either..

Catherine,

This 'debate' has been going on since I first joined Second Life - I am amazed that you somehow seem to have missed all the other threads that have regularly appeared in these forums.

To me, whether or not second life is a game depends entirely on your definition of game. (Please, please, people - don't post dictionary definitions!). To me a game has an essential element - a goal that has to be achieved. Either to score more points than your opponent over a set period of time, or to achieve some implicit goal for which the trappings of the game exist. In other words chess is a game because the goal is to set up a situation in which your opponent cannot move without losing his king - Colossal Caves was a game, because the aim was for you to explore and reach the end of the cave system. Second Life has no specific 'goal', therefore in my eyes it is not a game.

Because it has no goal, and you can live here indefinitely, I see SL as a virtual world, and that is how I always refer to it.

I really don't think this signifies anything sinister - or indeed anything that is worth the number of words already expended on it.

I haven't a clue whether it's a game or not -- the most satisfying phrase I have heard it called is a "place".

To be honest, I don't give a shit. Sorry. It doesn't matter. To label it is to limit it. Therefore, it sucks.

It's a life. Just like that one outside, the one where the TPs are ALWAYS borked, you get out of it a bit of what you put in.

Over the months (where did the last 13 months go) I've been here there have been times I've played, times I've worked, times I've loved, times I've cried. Just like RL.

We come with our own expectations, do our own things, develop our own skills, or just let our hair down and have fun, as well like.

I'm inclined to agree with Jillian that to me it's not a game. Games have rules and structures, be that as simple as snap/snakes and ladders or as complex as EQ. SL has a very minimal set of rules (which is good) and structures that you choose to impose on yourself.

SL is gloriously a jack-of-all-trades and mistress of that field in my opinion. The darklife experience probably isn't as good as the EQ experience for that aspect, the Jedi/Sith experience probably isn't as good as the SWG experience for that aspect, the boy racer experience definitely isn't as good as a dedicated racing game for that aspect. But do any of those let you try all of these, and clothes design, and building, and cybering and go clubbing with your friends and...? No, not to my knowledge anyway.

As for universal time, GMT would be great (being in the UK might bias me)! But it would be good, people tend to know their time zones relative to GMT or find it easy to find out. If not GMT then for a name, since ages ago I've been calling it Linden Time. Everyone knows what it means (even if they don't do the conversions properly all the time), it resonates with the L$ that we're all used to, and does work I think.

i think using the time at ll sense makes for sl time. it's the time zone most sl work is done. ll work time is a good time cycle to hang sl time on.

Second Life is a game. And so is first life. Geez, some people are so uptight!

Swatch Internet Time!

(note: I actually think that would be a terrible idea. a 24-hour GMT clock would be fine by me...)

Thought police.

It doesn't matter if some people think of it as a game (most of the world) and others think of it as "more than a game," and yet simultaneously "not a game," and have some word or selection of words they consciously use in place of "game."

What matters is that this business of yelling at people to stop calling it a game comes to an end. Both when done by players (platformers?) to new players, and especially when done by the Lindens themselves.

It's pretentious, it's a crock, and you can't change language that way, merely by deeming it so. The Lindens can TRY - among themselves, by setting down a policy never to use the word game no matter WHAT backbends they have to do to achieve that, and by making sure every interviewer agrees to put in a disclaimer sentence that this isn't really a game (despite the fact that the article is about gaming, and possibly for a gaming website or magazine), which is fairly obvious they already do.

But that's as far as it should go. The only way the term of choice will REALLY change is if it REALLY starts striking people as something that is definitely not a game. Otherwise, it reminds me of that old ad campaign about soap (I think it was Dove) where this huge effort was put forth to posit that Dove wasn't really soap, it was DOVE. Needless to say, nobody bought that concept. You can call it all the high-falutin' stuff you want; it's still soap and everybody knows it.

If things really do change, and change significantly, then they might get the change in linguistics they desire. They can't, and shouldn't, however, try to mandate it, and neither should the posters on this board - unless, of course, they don't mind running off new players.

coco

Of course it's not a game, in order for it to be a game it would have to be fun.

It is not the first time Lindens have stated this. They have been stating it since before even I got here two years ago. If you mean in a full fledged quotable way, here is another example of a Linden making this statement which was recorded this past summer, June 2005:





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Hmmm.. I don't see anyone doing this.

SL is different things to different people.

To me it has no label.. to me it is somewhere i go to meet and talk with friends, to stretch my own imagination when i build, to learn new skills, to do those things i enjoy doing, teaching others how the SL tools work; and yes to fool around and do some silly things like seeing how many people can sit on Roger the duck at the Shelter, and to go and admire the imaginations of others and see what can be created in this entertaining environment.

SL is entertaining.. its taking my mind away from the stresses and strains of RL and helping me to relax, if it didnt entertain then i wouldnt be here. But what is entertaining to me maybe isnt to the next person; but we all get something out of SL, whatever it is that we ourselves are looking for. We are all entertained by it.

I agree with those that have posted before, does it matter what it is called? When I spend hours with new people and they ask me what can they do in SL, I usually answer with what do you enjoy doing? and then help them to find that in SL.

So whether you are into creation of content, going to parties and chatting, learning new skills, gambling or any of the other myriad of things that are available as experiences in SL, you are here cos SL is giving you something and therefore you are giving something back to SL. You are giving a part of you...

As in RL, everyone here and their diverse thoughts and feelings adds to the way that SL is

That is my say
Thank you for reading

I vote for snow-crash-a-verse.

It's a floor wax and a desert topping!

I've actually had a shift recently and started thinking more of SL as a game, but not in a negative sense. Previously I had seen it more as some hybrid of a toy and a place, and even a limited platform. But things like Linden control and fiddling, the proportion of activity in SL which is either play or support for play, the number of pre-adults, the way that SL sandboxes seem like RL sandboxes, the extent to which SL is sealed off from the rest of the internet, etc. have just made me think of it more as a game. It seems like it's poised to be less game-like, though. And "game" is not a criticism to me.

FFS, I can't believe their are 2 pages of posts on this ? Are semantics really all that important ? Everyone here obviously loves our 'thingy' so play/build/$igh on

Well, to me the semantics are only important in certain circumstances. For instance, I agree with Jon and Siggy on their reasonings for being able to call SL a game. I also agree with Jillian, Enabran, and Hiro on reasonings for *not* calling it a game.

For me, I know that SL is not a game. It never has been to me, and it never has been to most of the people that *I* know. Even those I know that do call it a game, do so more in the way that Jon and Siggy present.

The only time it really becomes an issue for me, is when people try to affect changes in SL based on the fact that they believe SL is a game. I do not think that when it comes to important aspects of SL, that anyone should approach it as if it were a game. The consequences of that can be horrid in mind. So that is about the only time I really take *issue* with someone calling SL a game. Otherwise, I just state my feelings on what I believe when asked and/or as a part of a discussion (such as this thread).

Hugs Pen! I have to come 'play' with you soon !

If LL were selling a boxed version of SL what section of the software store would it be? Productivity? Games?

My guess would be it would be found in the games section. However, the explanation of the product is on the box, and would probably be best described as simulation.

My 2lindens. =)

It's NOT a doll! It's an action figure!

It's T.H.E.Y again.

Thrombic Hectoring Evangelistic Yahoos

The new FIC.

It's a breath mint.
It's a candy mint.
(or was it the other way around)
It's two, two mints in one.

hehe.. *HUGS* Lecktor

Too perfect.