Canada says "NO" to Bush

Canada has snubbed the USA, and for good reason.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/02/24/missile-canada050224.html

Canadians have spoken out against the Americans by saying no to Bush's plan to step up missile defensive systems within Canada. While many of our friends south of the border see this as an affront, the vast majority of Canadians see it quite differently.

Historically, apart from being each others biggest trade partner, Canada and the USA had previously participated in the DEW line (Distant Early Warning System) during the cold war.
However, these systems were never used and were phased out following SALT (Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty). It was expensive and unnecessary, and I was pleased to see it dismantled.

Now, in recent times, Bush wants us to re-arm. Forget it, Dubya. Who's missiles do we need to defend against? Russia....I dont think so. Korea?....You gotta be kidding. Hmmm?....China perhaps?. Nope.

Three myths still live out there however.
1- The USA protects Canada.
2- The USA can take over Canada any time it wants.
3- Canada allows terrorists access to the USA via Canada.

On point 1, USA does not defend Canada. Canada defends itself.

On Point 2, Never will happen. In fact, it's probably the most arrogant and unrealistic thing I've ever heard of. The largest army on the planet is incapable of securing the smallest country (Iraq), or even the "Green Zone" for that matter. Not to mention worldwide condemnation for taking a non-hostile country, who poses no threat.

On Point 3, Canada does not control US Customs. Americans do. Any persona non grata entering the USA clears via US authority. Granted, some may have aquired Canadian passports, the same can be said about any allied country.

The decision was basically a political one. we currently have a "minority" government, which means that the coalition of other parties carry alot of clout in the house. To support the USA in an unpopular global program such as this would be political suicide and the government would surely fall to a "non confidence" vote.

Case in point, Viet Nam. The Americans did not, nor needed to ask our permission or participation. Iraq is no different. We support the UN and have played a great role in peacekeeping in Europe, Bosnia, Afghanastan. Canadian firefighters extinguished 85% of the Kuwait fires following the Gulf War.

Canada has played its role exceedingly well since WW1. Where was the USA then? In WW2, Canada played an extensive role, deploying as many troops on the beaches as the USA and Great Britain. Canadians marched on France's liberation and likewise Holland. Canada is willing and able to assist the USA, when the situation warrants it. This is not one of those times.

Largely, the USA is capable of defending itself, with or without our help. Less than 1% of our GDP goes to military spending, whereas health care and education are paramount.

In a nutshell, Canada is not preoccupied by the politics of fear. We are not befuddled by terrorist this or terrorist that. We enjoy a peaceful coexistance in the global community and that won't change anytime soon.

Well bully for you and the rest of Canada. Enjoy that freedom of speech to bash the USA while living in a political version of a rain shadow.

I'm thinking that 50 seconds after an inbound missle is downed over New York, Canada will publish their "Oops!...our bad! Missle protection is a GREAT idea!" press release....

Then again, why would Canada care about terrorism? The terrorist arn't going to bomb Canada, since its been such a safe haven for them while waiting to cross the border...

I've never really understood the condesention towards Canada that a lot of Americans seem to feel. The US is pretty lucky when it comes to neighbors...

So what if they don't agree with us on some issues? You want a friend who feels comfortable telling you when you've got your head up your ass and are acting like an idiot... not one who just agrees with whatever you say blindly.

[edit] wow, and I started typing this before anyone else had replied. Kudos for exemplifying what I was talking about before I said it.

Missiles? From who? From where?




Haven? Who? When?

Paolo, are you a meteorologist? You have to be one of the first people who I have ever heard apply orographic effects in a political context.

I wouldn't be so sure this wouldn't happen. Let's take a look at the facts.

1. Canada is the number one supplier of petroleum for the United States.
2. People in Canada need to be liberated.
3. They might be engaging in very secret "weapons of mass destruction program-related activities".

Now, when you look at things from this perspective, Canada is very close to being a part of the Axis of Annoyance which is very dangerous to the United States and to Freedom.

Take your pick: http://www.ceip.org/files/projects/npp/resources/ballisticmissilechart.htm




http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2001/09/18/terrorists010918.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/001032.php
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=7964
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/7/9/162022.shtml
http://wais.stanford.edu/Terrorism/terrorism_terroristsinlaandcanada12501.html

Thanks for the link. nearly all of the weapons listed have Russian origin. I think you would agree, Russia is in no mood to start WW3. Although the map does not show it very clearly, we also share a border with Russia.

Gunna end up something like this:



-Ghoti

ROFL Ghoti

all 19 terrorists of 9-11 went directly to the US, hung out there for many years, drank your beer, and ate your burgers and probably had some (paid) sex with american ladies before committing their terrorism. btw, they were all saudi's ... not afghani or iraqi! wow!

talk about falling for brainless scapegoating. next on CNN - whitehouse spokesman asserts mongolia is responsible for poverty in american inner cities! "OMG! INVADE MONGOLIA!!"

I thought the terrorists were Iranian?

Actually, Lianne, I think you've got that backwards. I think most Americans are supportive of -- or at least ambivalent about -- our northern neighbor. However, on many forums in which I have participated (not just SL), it has been the Canadian contingent that has spared virtually no opportunity to spout some sort of superiority song and dance when comparing itself to the USA. After last week's flame wars regarding a similar issue with British forum members bashing the USA, I'm frankly disappointed to see this topic resurface.

As far as I am concerned, this thread is merely a shame-based provocation intended only to stir up conflict. A few months back, I was called to the carpet for responding to Jauani's seemingly anti-American comment. At that time, I conceded that the tone of my reply was inappropriate, but not its underlying message. With so much in common, I am dumbfounded as to why we can't work together instead of playing out a continental form of sibling rivalry.

Well then maybe it's the context that differs. I'm talking about conversations with people in real life. Not online.

this is your comment in this thread:


i don't see the original post bashing america. it is a defense for the canadian governments decision to decline the missle defense program, a program even many americans think is a waste of money.

we will also likely decline on the fricken laser beam program to protect earth from space robots.

Well, I can understand why such US bashing is happening, Paolo. Our current leadership hasn't exactly been respectful, or even friendly, to the rest of the world. Our foriegn policy is taking a "You have an opinion? F**k that, The US does it Our Way" stance. That kind of additude doesn't breed Happiness, love and fluffy bunnies.



I agree that sneering superiority at America is not the way to resolve issues, or to even talk about them. But, to speak in the tone most similar to politics (that being the playground): "America started it!"

Actually, some hung out in Germany, Spain, and France before finding their way into the U.S....does that mean they may have been paying women in those countries as well? Or is it just American women who are prostitutes? And yes, they were Saudi's...based out of the Taliban held country of Afghanistan (ya can't bait me with Iraq, I believe it to be an unjustified war for resources.)
And yes, reports do indicate that they were hitting strip-clubs in Florida prior to their attack, and most likely consuming food and drink...Still doesn't take away from the opinion that Canada's borders are akin to Mexico's in terms of security, or that they are free to bark loudly mostly due to their enjoying next door neighbor status with the U.S.


I fall for nothing, my opinions are my own and gleaned both from my Canadian citizenship (dual Canada and U.S.) and from many news sources, personal conversations, and personal insight. And how exactly is Canada being a scapegoat? They are being criticized for lax border and immigration regulation, and their choice to not allow the missile defence to intercept warheads over their country's borders.

Anybody know when we start pumping that oil out of Iraq ?? I'll be glad when it starts, the pump prices are still ridiculous!!
/sarcasm

U rawk Canada

whatever! if there are so many terrorists in canada, why is it that the pentagon was attacked and not the national defense ministry in ottawa? perhaps canada, like australia, belgium or bhutan, is enjoying NON GLOBAL HEGEMON status?


if canadian immigration policies are such a big problem for american security, perhaps america should foot the bill for them! because clearly they have presented minimal security risk to canada or canadian citizens. as for misslie defences - why would canada want to pay for a program that canadians don't believe is necessary? first you have to convince canadians that there is a likely hood of missiles targeting canadian cities or even flying over canada to attack american cities.

here is a hint - try to look at canadian government decisions from a - OMG - canadian national interests perspective and not as a servant of american ones.

wonderful news sources btw.

Don't be silly. You know darn well that all those oil revenues are going to cover the cost of the war.

Oh yes, I had forgotten about that. Thanks for the reminder 'ol buddy.

I understand that war in the middle east is meant to bring on the second coming of Jesus?

Jesus will not come until all the Jews are in Israel. That is where they are supposed to be and if they are all hanging out in Florida, Jesus will be very unhappy.

Places everyone! Places! The Messiah is coming.