Disturbing level of hatred

Lewis, since you brought yourself as example ... just because you think such attacks on you were unwarranted, doesn't mean the persons who attacked you happen to share this view. If your personality grated on them in the way you cannot perceive but they found irritating enough, it's possible they felt the attacks were well justified -.o

Unwarranted personal attacks are *always* justified in the mind of the attacker, regardless of how wrong most of the rest of the world might feel about it.

Lewis

and lewis, doesnt the same thing happen to you here?

is it possible you invite this reaction ?

or are you the only sane one in a crowd of lunatics?

So what, exactly, makes them objectively unwarranted? Keeping in mind the person attacked is highly likely to think they are attacked unfairly, but such belief doesn't automatically mean "the rest of the world" agrees with them, or even cares...

remember, lewis likes to tell people when their opinions are wrong

That's usually how it goes. While I'm at it, thank you also, Cris, for your contributions. Sorry I spelled your name wrong that one time

you obvously dont post there much - any regular poster on SC would know I post there alot now - shit I even have the link in my sig.... nice try to derail me but you lose - badly

Thank you.

I think as a forum community some people need to learn that the voice of their approval or appreciation is just as valid as their voice of discontent.

Hella Yah! Can I get a woot woot!

Oh come on, you call yourself "evil" in your own profile and have for years.

I'll give you 1/2 a touché on that one only.

Firstly, no, I don't post there much. By choice.

Secondly, I have signatures turned off, so I didn't see any link.

Lewis

Ok let's take this thing where people got it into their heads about labelling gay clubs, and then Godwinised it by comparing it to nazi pink triangles.

Everyone decided I am completely anti-gay.

However, think it through.

My club's description says "disco" in it because its the music I play, and I want to attract fellow lovers of the funky floor filling flare flapping favourites. It's called good advertising, it gives people an idea of what I have, and if they want the latest techno raves then they are going to be disappointed, so I save them the bother.

If a gay club makes it clear in its description that it is a gay club, as I requested, that's nothing to do with pink triangles, but the exact same marketing technique I use.

Without it, it's like going to Blockbuster and being given an unlabelled video cassette. Until you put it in the machine, you don't know whether its a Bambi, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, The Terminator or Hot Housewives vol 6.

This subject is repeatedly pulled up to say I am anti-GLBT. In fact one of my close friends in-world is transgendered and I have no problem with her.

Despite several attempts to correct people's wrong opinions of me on the subject, and clarify the matter, I seem to get nowhere, because people have decided that's the truth (even though it clearly isn't).

Now do you understand what I mean?

Lewis

Hmm i was under impression the idea of your anti-gay attitude originated from the full comment you made, which went along lines of "i'd like the gay places to label themselves clearly *so i can avoid them*" (emphasis mine) ... in other words, it wasn't *just* the label issue, but expressed attitude you're selecting people you'd like to meet based on their sexual preference. And i think you'd admit that a comment like "i don't want to see gay people" does at least to a degree display negative attitude towards gay people based on nothing but their sexual preference..? o.o;

Which i believe in a way displays what i said -- the way you personally perceive the issue can be different from how others see it. In your eyes it's about nothing but a technical label, and in a way you don't even notice how the "i don't want to see them" attitude that also went with it could be offensive to the people who felt it as justification enough to make comments about you, in turn o.O;

Okay, I'm curious now, Lewis. Honestly, I believed you were pretty clearly anti-gay, too, but now I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and ask: what exactly were you worried about before, then, when you made this big deal about wanting "gay" things labeled gay? Is there a rash of GLBT-focused or -only clubs that are going out of their way to hide what they are? Is that it?

I'm honestly curious. Please help me to understand, since it appears, by what you're saying, that you were perhaps grossly misunderstood before.

Because I used the word 'labelling' in the context of a gay club identifying itself clearly as such, it was taken in the same way that the nazis made gay people wear pink triangles.

I was talking about the benefits of using proper search terms and search tags (also known as labels) to help people find what they wanted, and in the same way avoid what they didn't want.

Me making a personal choice to not go to a gay club in SL is in no way infringing on the rights of others to go to or make one, in the same way that choosing to grab a McDonalds on the way home isn't anti-Burger King.

There are some things I think have no place in Second Life - but you won't see me doing a Fred Phelps style demonstration anywhere, I'll either not go to it if it's "labelled" as such in its description, or teleport somewhere else if I realise it's something I am choosing not to partake of. What I may or may not think of any particular person, lifestyle or whatever is irrelevant. It's my choice, I'm making that choice to avoid it, and it shouldn't make a difference to anyone else.

People often also drag my faith into these things even if I haven't mentioned it at all in the thread. Again, I'm not forcing my standards or morals on anyone, I'm forcing them on myself, and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people to help me maintain this by using the contents of the search box with the "labels" they wish to attract people in helping me not to go there.

I often end up in places or situations in-world that I feel uncomfortable in, but because friends have asked me to join them I will go along for a bit because they have asked me to join them. I don't start screaming that it has no place in SL, repent ye sinners and all that kind of thing.

Now, accuse me of anti-night if you wish, but it's gone midnight here and I really should be in bed.

Lewis

I think it's mostly down to the use of the term 'label' which, although intended in an inert manner, bought out a charged response because of the 'pink triangle' issue I have mentioned before.

Remember as well that it's often difficult to see something from another person's point of view if you've never experienced what upsets someone. It's like ex drug addicts are the best people to help drug addicts break the addiction because they have experienced it for themselves and don't just know about it, they understand it.

Lewis

You dont know how strongly I agree with the title and premise of your thread. I heard about this threat to MadamG, and although I dont know her, I sent her a few words of support.

No one deserves to be subjected to such hatred. Last week a death threat was delivered to me by a griefer who was part of a multi party griefing fest focused on me. my sim and business name. When I tried to address the problem with concern and solution that benefits all members except those who are part of the problem, it was met with more hatred and flaming about me personally. This does not solve the problems we all face, all except for the griefers that is.

Why must we hate people because we disagree with them. Isn't this what terrorism is about when you think about it. Instead of flaming, accusing, pouncing, trashing, why not have a civil exchange of thoguhts. If there is a point that you dont understand or share, why not ask about it or discuss. Do those who hate attempt to gain some kind of self esteem when they trash others?

I find the level of hostility and hatred that has emerged as a presence inside SL, and on some third party sites, to be disturbing and disgusting. When those who are obsessed with hate have no concern about the consequences you have hate rising to levels we have seen.

Disagree with her or not, I hope all who read this will send MadamG, and any others who are being harassed or griefed by the extreme hate we have seen, some kind words of support.

Aren't we all supposed to be adults? Is that what adults do? Threaten, harass and grief because we dont like another person, or we disagree with them? Isnt this what MUTE is for? MUTE sure works for me and it is a pleasure to not be bothered by those whom I dislike. I would not threaten to kill someone, or threaten any harm, and cannot relate to the adult mind that wallows in hate, ridicule and bullying. Its a sickness.

Well, I for one, cannot wait to join your pro-Nazi censorship forum. It sounds like fun.

I really have no idea where you got that idea from, and I don't think I want to know either.

Talk to me. You might find I'm not that bad after all. In fact, I seem to recall running into you with an alt and you were actually quite pleasant because you took me at face value with no preconceived ideas of what I am because of the name tag I am labelled with.

Lewis

Great post. Well thought out and articulate. How a forum post should be.

I like churches to clearly mark themselves as churches because I don't want to go to those places. I like gyms to mark themselves clearly as gyms so I don't go to those places, either. I would like straight bars to mark themselves as straight bars so I don't go to those places. I would like gay bars to mark themselves as gay bars so I can see if I'll fit there.

Does this mean I'm {a} anti church, {b} anti gym, {c} anti straight, {d} and pro GLBT?

Nope.

It means simply that I don't like going to some places while I do like going to others.

While we're at it, I like IBM and I'll avoid buying a Dell. Does that mean I'm anti-Dell? Does this mean I'll firebomb anyone who I see owning a Dell PC? No. It means simply that I do not personally like Dells and would never use them.

You have misconstrued Lewis' statement completely. What he said was "I do not want to go to a gay bar." That is all he said. He said he wanted them labelled so he would not accidently do so. If you are reading blood curdling hatred in to this, then it's not him who's shallow and ignorant, it's you.

Lewis is a close friend of mine in world. He builds marvelously, and I write scripts. I don't like most men. Read that last as: I'm GAY!

Oh! Not liking men means I'm anti-male, correct? While if I tell you that I hate the feminist movement for ciminalizing guys, that makes me anti-feminist. These are horrible crimes, because the feminists won all the rights for the girls while completely obliterating all legal protection for the guys. Except .... that's not how you see it, is it?

I believe that people should just get along, and reson and tolerance should be applied to all things. You don't understand it? Kiss off! Just accept it, and leave it alone.

As to the anti-feminist thing? Anyone who advocates making a person a "convicted" criminal with absolutely no physical evidence that said crime was ever actually committed is just plain wrong in my book.

Does this mean I'm anti-law? No. It just means I expect that the legal system should hold the standards of evidence for conviction at a very high bar to avoid wrongful convictions.

So now I'm anti-victims rights. Except it's better to let a guilty man go free than put an innocent man in jail. Should an innocent go to prison because we're protecting "Victims Rights", who then, is the victim? Clearly, it's the innocent men who went to prison!

Churches label themselves to bring on hatred to them? No. To bring their members to their churches.

Gyms label themselves to bring on hatred? No. To bring people who want to go to a gym.

Clubs should likewise label themselve. To bring on hatred? No. To bring people who would be comfortable in their establishments.

Funny thing is, some of the most hateful and vituperative operators are the ones expressing their "outrage" over this. One wonders -- what if it had been a very unpopular resident? Would they have been as "upset" if someone had said it about Lewis or Prok? I doubt it. Some of these people have wished that other residents would commit suicide, or talk of real life violence over forum disputes, and yet here they are, all "up in arms". What a load of Bullshit. Further proof that it's just more ego boosting and shameless website promotion.

I wouldn't go that far (your final statement), but I will agree that ... I suspect ... Prokofy would not enjoy the same support. And truly, that's a pity.

just saying

Excellent post. Your point about terrorism made me think of something. There has been a lot of hyperbole about posts and inworld actions being violence, terrorism, virtual rape, even murder. Someone griefing your event or your property or pushing your avatar is not violence or terrorism. Not being able to pass off yourself as something you aren't is not murder. Posing on sex balls is not virtual rape. All of those things are just sickening trivializations.

Being told you will be killed if you go to the next SLCC and having a poll taken about the best way to rape you is terrorism.