Sould LL just ban the "Impeach Bush" guy?

Bad builds are subjective ... extortion using political banter is another thing. In RL we use zoning resrictions and voting as a way to deal with these issues. Is there any hope of voting for and enforcing zoning laws in SL? I would guess the lindens wouldn't like to see the good people of SL walk off and would rather lose one bad apple.

the message on the signs are not what the problem is .. it is using it to extort money from others. Please do not buy this land. Force him to change his strategy.

Thanks for the responses guys.

I just wanted to put my ideas out there, see how it shook out. I think if you want to truly protest something, express yourself, go right ahead - I just think that the prime motivator here isn't protest, its profit.

So that is why I think breaking the self-perpetuating loop of irritating the neighbors, then profiting handsomely from it, would at least stop the viral spread in this case.

Anyway, as prior posters have said, this avs name isn't really held with high regard at the moment. If whuffie were implemented, he'd be pulling a negative score

I always sorta laugh when people complain that <given product> only costs <fraction of selling price>, so it must be extortion...

When manufacturing a product, you'd be surprised how much overhead there is. In addition to the product itself, the packaging, marketing, transportation costs (fuel, trucks, drivers, or subcontracting), energy, rent, insurance costs for the manufacturing plant and distribution plant, salary and benefits for the manufacturing and distribution workers, you've also got the store's overhad costs, which are equally high. Tie in the fact that many of these products have shelf lives and minimum purchase quotas, as well as the relatively low margin on many items plus increasingly competitive advertising and sale prices between supermarket chains, stokeholder divdends, etc, and you've got a relatively low margin product.

Food retailers for the most part tend to make money on volume, not per item. It's not extortion, it's simple finance.

Now, as for land speculation, there is a significant amount of overhead involved, but for someone who is an efficient land trader, the margin and rate of turnover is still quite high from the figures I've seen.

For the record, I voted No on banning this jackass. I don't agree with his methods by any reach of the imagination, but I would prefer that we don't continue going down that slippery slope into censorship and the required popular approval of any thing we want to put in world. Second life is supposed to be your life, your imagination. If this guy wants to spend his second life proclaiming the evils of a real life government official, so be it. Although his signs are a godawful eyesore, so are a lot of other things I've seen in world over the past two years.

--BL

Clubs have no place in SL and should be banned. Casinos too! Burn 'em at the stake!

It's both. if the message wasn't offensive, then the extortion wouldn't work.

Not the same. Clubs and Casinos add worthwhile content to SL, and provide services to SL residents.

There are plenty of nuisances in SL, yes. But anti-Bush campaigns are the single largest, most deliberate, and easiest to eliminate, if you ask me.


I'd also prefer that we didn't have to, but slippery slopes don't scare me. We're talking about a single issue, and I think there's a thick line.

Exactly! If you do not like his techniques, simply ignore him. This land is costing him tier and if people stop buying it, then perhaps he will realize that he message is getting lost on the public and move on.

hehe, I wasn't exactly calling that extortion, but there is quite a bit of price markup on low priced items. You really don't hear a lot of complaint about it, because it is such a low amount, but the percentage of cost vs. retail of low price items is a little on the high side...

Besides, parsing is fun

So you're saying that political protest has no (zero) value in SL? That it should not be allowed and banned? That is what the original post was stating, to which I poked jest at it for. My view on casinos and clubs not withstanding, I will conceed that they do provide some value to the SL experience for users, just as political discourse provides value to other users. I can think of a few protests off hand in world, as well as a number of political debates and discussions that used to be held with some frequency only a few months back.

I think the notion of everybody either wanting or not wanting a person banned is a right they can express freely. I also think the impeach Bush guy has a right to place his sign on his property if he wants to. His opinion is not a far out fringe topic. In fact, it is rather mainstream in the real world. Is Second Life a relection of real life? Why this polemic ? Who cares if someone expresses an opinion? Whorehouses and casino's but dont say anything about politics...too real world ?...Please !

No, I think his signs should be put at every telehub, right next to those infonet things!

I'm so totally lazy and not going to read any of this, but I want to know IF someone is banned, how long until LL wipes their crap off the world and takes back the land?

The land will revert to Linden Lab, then auctioned off after a few months to the next griefer or to Anshe, who will just sell it to the next griefer.

It sets a bad precedent. How would SL look with political posters everywhere during elections? For that matter we could have real world business billboards cluttering up every visible area of SL. I thought the whole idea to a second life is that it is not just a copy of the first.

Right, but how long does it take? Reverts the next day, the next week, a month, a year? The answer is important to me.

Usually many weeks, if not months.

Sure, but MY imagination is just a copy of RL, but where I don't have to eat to survive.

One could hope that they could expedite this reversion in light of the objects located on the respective lots.

Interesting.

I joined this game to get away from this dolldrum i call real life so i can have fun and interact with friends without being constantly reminded the worries of the real world. Here's the deal. THIS IS A GAME, NOT A POLITICAL BASE! get rid of the politics and let us have fun damnit. and for the guy saying get rid of clubs and casino's are you stupid? do you realize how much traffic those places get? a hellova lot more than the damn IMPEACH BUSH signs! Not to mention i'm employed at a club and i have a blast everytime i go to work there and see all of my friends and meet new people. BAN THE ASSHOLE AND ALL HIS POLITICAL BULLSHIT!

Well, even if the Lindens do nothing to this guy, here's the baseline;

When Bush's term is up this time he can not be re-elected.

IF, at that point, this guy keeps his signs up, or finds a new "opinion" to air with them,
THEN his motives are clear. Simple extortion for land sales.

IF he removes the signs after the election (or impeachment if that ever happens), and puts his micro-plots up for sale at a reasonable price,
THEN his motives were purely of the political level he claims.

In my opinion, if the first hypothosis proves true, then LL should ban him for such acts. If the second holds true, then I would give (grudging) respect to the man for sticking to it through all this.

Personally, I think the signs are an eyesore, are just plain stupid, and show a complete comtempt and uncaring for fellow SL residents.

~Jessy

Voted yes.

Common sense could help out alot here.

In the sim one of my friends lives in, half the land there is owned by this person. Her house is in the middle. The signs litterally surround her house in many different oddball sizes and heights, mostly pointing to her house, overlapping eachother and blocking view of most of the sim and the sky. Again, these signs fill up almost half the sim.

At a few signs here and there in the sim, visible but not obstructing locations, I could believe that he's just trying to make a statement. But unfortunately, as I just described above, this is not the case. There is nothing to analyze here, nothing to read deeper into. This is an intentional griefing scheme. I'm not entirely certain the purpose is to make money off it, but wouldn't be suprised. The motivation for doing this is likely the same as those who launch attacks that crash the entire grid. I think people need to stop thinking about the 'could-be's' and 'what-if's' and just look at it for what it is. Like alot of forum posters have stated, the political statements are no excuse, they have no bearing on The Grid, the only thing I've ever seen make the transition to any real effect from real life to Second Life, and vice versa, is money.

On a side note... carefully read the Community Standards and section 5 of the Terms of Service sometime. I've discussed my findings there with a few Lindens, who always stop talking to me after I bring forth my points.

I'm not trying to force anyone's hand, I'm just, again, trying to tell people to stop dressing this up and see this for what it is.

Well, since you didn't bother to read the quote that I was referring to, I'm not going to bother defending my Clubs and Casinos comment, because ithere really is no point. If you didn't get it the first time around, chances are you won't on the second or third reading.

On a different note, I have got to say that I am sick of everyone saying that everyoen should stop taking Second Life so seriously. If I get my kicks from debating politics in world, or running a real estate empire, or clubbing with my friends, so be it. Second Life is "Your World. Your Imagination", or so the main page says. It doesn't say that Second Life is "Your Clubbing Venue" or "Your Political Convention", or even "Your Sheep Sheering Bonanza". Second Life is open-ended, left to be interpreted by each user. That is the beauty of Second Life.

In short, unless you want other people calling for the cracking down of clubs, casinos, shopping, prim crafting, debating, flying around in neon multi-prim spacecraft, or whatever it is that floats your torus-shaped boat, don't try to impose your damn will on anyone else. That was the point of my original sarcastic comment. Aww damn it, I ended up explaining my original post afterall. Oh well...

i have the unfortunate privailage of living next to one of his spam signs. i instant messged him many times with no reply to my request. now i have used all my prims up to box in my land and house just so i dont see his spam. i like where i live i wish he would just get the idea and leave us all alone.

I voted no. I didnt like doing it but here's my thinking for those of you that would happily throw me on spit and roast me for it.

I have a good friend in game - somone many of you know. Her real life daughter has been deployed to Iraq twice and will be going again in January. Her daughter is going because she has orders from her commander - President George Bush - to go. Her daughter is very proud of her job and the military's accomplishments and fully supports the job they are doing there.

Part of being in SL for this lady is to escape real life for just a little bit each day, but every time this player sees those signs she is reminded of whats going on her daughters life. And trust me - it hurts her. She doesnt like saying goodbye on each deployment and wondering if she'll ever see her daughter again.

When I got on a rant with my friend about those signs she made me stop and think. Part of what our troops have accomplished is the concept of truly free speech. She is potentially giving up her real life child for this concept - and by extension what this sign guy is using in SL. If she can accept this guy (albeit thru gritted teeth) then we have to reflect on our values and motivations.

I do not doubt for one second that this person is frustrated with Bush and has his own reasons for rabidly promoting his political agenda here in SL. It is a shame that he has chosen to create eyesores that make people angry instead of inspiring proactive debate and a focus of positive energies to affect a change that could extend into the Real World.

Linden Labs have stated their policy - as long as these signs are on the person's land, do not interfere with or directly attack any individual they can stay. Proving that he is griefing - or just being an idiot - is very hard.

Personally? I think this guy should reconsider what he's doing. But thats just me.

OK. Light up the charcoal!

DP