Sould LL just ban the "Impeach Bush" guy?

He's trying to cover his own arse. And look! One of my signs appeared in the artlce! :3

I think this is a great idea. Wonderful. In fact, I think this is such a great idea that we should apply it across the board. Land Extortion is morally evil and should be a bannable offense.

So..... I guess you'll all be celebrating when all land resellers are banned.

Right?

ummm, no. This is not about land resellers at all. Most land resellers sell land at reasonable rates (somewhere 3-15 $L/sq.m.) I don't know how many set up 16sq.m. for $L5000 Now this guy says he's not really selling the land, he just marked it for sale so people would be aware of how bad bush is....... I don't understand that line of "logic" whatsoever, since you can see these signs just about anywhere in SL you go.

I agree with you about not banning. I am not sure on the other part about land resellers.

Right now, resellers are the only ones buying whole sims, as LL doesn't chop up new sims anymore. Are you lumping this guy in with the run of the mill land reseller? if so, I disagree, he is about something else altogether.

Either he is ramming his politics down other's throats (politics I happen to agree with - BUT, I dont need to crap up sims for everyone to express that), he is trying to manipulate main grid land rates, or has some other as yet unknown motivation.

Let me tell you a story of the old days... shall I?

I think I shall.

Once upon a time..... in ages past.... an avie joined SL. He was a refugee from There and liked what he'd heard about SL. He met people.... figured out the system.... and after a little bit of waiting for stipends to build up, he bought a nice little place in Freelon. (A mature sim.... when mature sims were rare enough that such land was tough to come by.) On this land he eventually had several builds over the course of time. Friends came and hung out..... long conversations were had..... and life was good.

This land? Was 1L/sq m. This was before your time, I know Joy.... but there was a time when the Lindens didn't cater to the bottom-feeding parasites that we call 'land resellers' or 'land barons' and people did just fine finding land without any 'help.' Land was publically released and you didn't have people using scripted objects to corner the market to force themselves into an unneeded and unwanted middleman postion that quite frankly.... we were doing just fine without.

The moral of this story? You'll have to forgive some of us that remember public land (pre-tiers and resellers) for not seeing a whole hell of a lot of difference between you and the person you're complaining about. To hell with both of you.



Actually I'm more or less neutral on the sign issue. I'd just like these hypocrites to quit whining about it.

This has me thinking.

I wonder if they had kept the flat 15 bucks a month charge for everyone and public land at 1$L/m2 where SL would be at right now. Would it have grown faster? Slower? The same? Died?

Lee Linden told me they consulted RL economists because LL was financially unsound towards the end of 2003. Supposedly the consultant(s?) recommended that they adopt the tier payment plan and throw out the flat fee. The idea (I suppose) was that the vast tracts of idle public land were not generating the capital LL needed to survive.

Not that I have thought about it it enough to hazard a guess.

If the above comment is directed at me, I have done nothing to deserve such an attack. I think the guy's signs are ugly and I want them gone. Is it going to happen? Doubtful. Will he make nice and take down a few of them? Probably not. When he is politely asked by people to please at least tone them down, he goes on the offensive and puts up more signs and raises the price for his land. Then he goes on the verbal attack. Just ask Ron about that. Ask Mulch about that too. Hell, ask anyone who has land anywhere near these microplots of land and see what they have to say. The signs get bigger... even spin. It is obnoxious, and a very bad impression of SL for newbies (there are more things that leave bad first impressions for newbies, but we aren't on those threads).

Second Life is Second Life - a "game"/"platform"/escape from real life... you name it. Real life politics, while fascinating, should really be kept out of world. I'm sure the people from other countries really don't care to see that, I know most people in the US don't really care either. If this guy really wants to "make a difference" he should do so in his hometown, organize others, start getting petitions signed... that sort of thing.

As for land prices, those are not really an issue for me. Thanks to the fugly signs, I have no urge to change to a premium account. I want to thank you personally for responding to my post the way you did. Your own hypocrisy is astounding. You pointed out that I probably did not know about costs of land pre-tier, etc., then went on to say there was NO DIFFERENCE between me and the person I'm complaining about? WTF?? I'm not putting fugly signs up all over the grid. I'm not putting small plots of land for sale for exorbitant amounts just so "people will see them when they look for land" and get them thinking...

at least that's how I read your post.

well... naaah

I agree, anyone who wants to complain about how it was better back in the day should just STFU. They should stop worrying about what was and worry about whats now, because now is what effects the future not the past. If they don't like what SL has become they should just get lost instead of complaining about how it was better before X happened. I dunno about the rest of you guys, but I paid good money for my land. I invested a bit of RL cash to getting my club started and to build my home. I for one am NOT gonna sit back and take it while somebody gets away with driving my customers away and countinually drives the value of mine & my neighbor's land into the dirt we laid our virtual foundations in. I'm also NOT gonna sit back and watch the same scumbag do this to my friends and their neighbors. This guy IS a problem and something must be done.

Actually it was more of a collective 'you' directed at the whiners, who seem to be primarily land speculators complaining about unsightly signs that they'd have to pay an outrageous price to get rid of.

The hypocricy in this statement, when they've (and potentially you, I have no direct knowledge of this) made a fair amount of money at the expense of my (and other peoples') enjoyment of SL is almost nauseating.



That's nice.... I've dealt with having all land around my build terraformed down to water and covered with structures. Welcome to the semi-anarchism that is SL.



Yet it is at least for sale.



As does the inability of newbies to buy land without spending a large amount of real money on L$. Somehow I don't hear you complaining about that....



You're welcome to that opinion. Just don't expect it to be universally shared. Again..... semi-anarchism.



Your call. Honestly I'd guess that more people have gone FROM premium TO non-premium due to the economic changes and the social changes they've brought with them than over any in-world content.



Awwwwwwwwwwwww..... aren't they CUTE when they try to use guilt?



I looked at your join date.

You're complaining about him jacking up his lots to what you consider to be outrageous amounts.... and ignoring the fact that you're justifying people selling land at outrageous amounts.

And somehow I'm the hypocrite here?



I don't care.



Nope. You're just justifying people marking up land exorbinantly and complaing along with them about someone marking up land exorbinantly.

The expression 'a pox on both your houses' comes to mind.

Tell you what. I was here first. I was supporting LL before you'd ever heard of this. I didn't come in to milk this system for all the money it was worth, and specifically milk the people who have been supporting LL since before the 'investment community' came in. You're the carpetbagger, you're the parasite. You leave.



Between this and the collective shrieks about telehub land, I'm actually quite amused these days.

It sort of starts to make up for the longterm disgust that most of my predictions about what would happen post 1.2 have come to pass. Not totally.... but it's a start.

Actually I heard of SL quite a few years ago, just never gave it a try until a friend convinced me. Also I didn't start my club till I was playing for a good 3 months when my mate convinced me to build a club to DJ in. So if that makes me a parasite why should I leave? Good parasites don't leave a good host. Also I don't abuse the system for my own gain like this guy is doing. I'm running an honest business in the game with the sole purpose of having fun as I don't expect a short term gain from this. So yeah, I admit I'm a parasite. Show me your veins.

As I said, I wasn't sure if it was directly at me or not. And no, I am not talking about any damn land speculators, I am talking about people like my friends who just want to add to their own land but cannot buy this one little 16 sq. m. of land right in the middle of a huge plot of land.



Ya know, if it's the same kind of people who are bitching about telehub land and demanding compensation because they spent blah blah blah money on it - I'm with you, caveat emptor. But if it is just a person like mentioned above... well I see no hypocrisy.



I was explaining why I am bitching about the signs.




Yeah, thank goodness for... something.




Since Lindens do convert to real dollars, you can just as easily make money too... but that's not the point. I understood when I started playing that x$L = x$US. So IF LL had not been persuaded to make virtual monopoly money into the real deal, this would be a non-issue.



Yup, I know.



That would not surpise me a bit. Considering the loss of "merit bonuses", the various abuses of Developer Incentive/dwell, the load times/lag, etc., had I been privy to the world of Second Life when you joined, I probably would have also gone premium, then reverted to basic if I had gone through the same changes you have. As it is, I have not.




Awwwwwwww aren't they CUTE when they try to be sarcastic? Seriously, do you work for a newspaper or some sort or media? The spin you have put on my statements have me a bit dizzy.





Again, as stated in my previous post, I have not ever had a premium account, I never really looked at land prices until I toyed with the idea of leveling up. I am not justifying anyone charging outrageous prices for land at all.



As evidenced by your lack of reading comprehension. I was noting that I don't own land and am not junking up the most of the main grid with spam, this was when I was under the impression that you were directing your previous post at me. I was on a rant (see edit of original post if you want to).




Please, just tell me where I am justifying any land markups. I'm not, that's just the way things are. I can't make LL revert to virtual monopoly money and the land of milk & honey any more than you can. It would be nice... but then again, it would also be nice to make money on a "game"

Oh I see.... you'd heard about it..... as compared to those of us who were actually in here building your little business op. You know... building? Scripting? Paying a monthly fee?

Yeah.... that makes all the difference.

Maybe I should leave... after all.... it's so much more important for things to be the way they are instead of actually having something to do besides tringo and dancing in a club for someone else's dwell.

"And while yer at it, geddoff my lawn, ya kids!"

And I'm talking about people who can't manage to get land at all.



Actually yes, you've done exactly that.



Shall I?



Look familar?

hmmm, that does not look like JUSTIFICATION at all. That just looks to me like how things are in world. Not the utopia you had before lindens became worth real money, because, as you mentioned... I was not around when land was $L1 and the linden was play money.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=justification

I make no excuses for land speculators/resellers. Those rates are much more reasonable than 16 sq. m. for $L5000, don't you think?

If you think a 3-1500% markup is 'reasonable' I have a few business prospects to discuss with you........

hehe, considering the only land being sold publicly at $L1 is First Land and you can only get 512 sq.m. of that ONE TIME ONLY and if you don't know about first land and buy other land first you can't ever get First Land.... it's really not surprising that I consider 3 L/sq m reasonable and I really only consider 15L reasonable when compared to 312.5 L$/sq m, but who wouldn't?

Heck go just about anywhere and tell me things in RL don't already have almost as much of a markup - if not more. (insert pic of sweatshop utilizing child labor and adjoining pic of Nike)

In RL we have laws against price fixing to prevent exactly this sort of collusion and markup.

Wonder how much it cost to make that one bottle of Coke? You know, I'm pretty sure one 20 oz plastic bottle of Coke cost nowhere near $1.25 (or so) to make, even when you factor in overhead.

How is setting a precedent to stop POLITICAL speech in a "game" a bad thing? and why would this be a worry to anyone?

This is a fantasy world. Why oh why do we have to have real life politics in a fantasy world that we come to have fun?

I don't even like politics and neither do any of my friends.

So why force this on us?

As much as I think this guy is an asshole - I can't see LL doing anything about it, and I'd be worried if they did.

The same rights that let this guy be a dick, are the same rights I enjoy to build what I like.

And the *LAST* thing I want to see in SL is a bunch of people deciding what anyone else can build based on how 'offended' they are... I've seen it before - directed at me no less when I first started.

Basically a large in world group who were fans of military role play took offence at my Fantasy-Arabian palace. I think 'sandnigger build' was the term they used.

Seeing how at the time they were one of the largest single groups in SL - they could have used a 'majority rule' citing 'offense' to bring my build down.

No - no sir - thats one lil slope I care not to slip slip slide down.

Give this guy enough rope - he will hang himself one way or the other.

On a brighter note - IM me in world if you'd like to see a little 'rules bending' on how you might not have to look at these signs if you live on adjacent land.

Siggy.

All I have to say on this is.. "If you Ignore it, It will go away..." he is doing this to just get ppl upset, and mad and it is working. He is a troll do not feed the trolls just Ignore him and he will go away. Just like trolls do.