Pimps!

Well first off it appears you havent read the whole thread because I have no cause, and I also specifically stated that I could not possibly care less what ignorant people who refuse to learn the lifestyle have to say about it. Just for clarity let me repeat.

I do not care what ignorant people say.

Point number two, the irrational namecalling? Where was this at? I was perfectly rational when I made the "happy little sprites" comment.

Sigh.

Lupus, before criticizing others you might want to go back to school and go past "Hooked on Phonics" to "Reading Comprehension 101". Is it really that hard to find obnoxious, ignorant people on this thread that you have to pick fights with two people on this thread who agree with you 99% on this topic?

So, let me state this less subtly, with less humor, and hopefully without words that might confuse a non-native English speaker (e.g. words such as "daffy":

It is pointless to get into a discussion on the exact definitions of various forms of RP and try to psychoanalyze those who choose to play that role, as Bizzy started to do and you indulged her. Doing so only validates that there are some forms of RP that are okay and some that are not, so don't even go there.

Please read that last paragraph a few times before responding. Then think about it in the context of this thread before responding.

I just want to chime in here as someone with some knowlege and limited experience of D/s and bdsm, that the term vanilla, whether it is intended or not, feels the same way to those who you use it to describe as many in the D/s community feel when described as pervy or kinky.

At least most non-D/s people who I've told about that term react that way. Vanilla implies boring, bland and dull, regardless of whether you personally like that flavor. It's either disingenous or just ignorant, I guess, to say you never heard that adjective used in that way.

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000

ADJECTIVE: 1. Flavored with vanilla: vanilla pudding. 2. Lacking adornments or special features; basic or ordinary: “We went through a period of vanilla cars” (Charles Jordan).

No one I know of wants to hear their sex life described as unspecial, basic or ordinary!

Oh, and speaking of Pimps, sleazeballs and their like, I've met several trolling newbie hangouts looking for pretty avatars.

I dont know maybe I'm just different and should be offended more. I dont get offended when people call me things that are true or describe things I do correctly.

Its like me getting offended over being called short, bald, or German. These are all things that I am why get offended. The things I'm into are kinky or pervy, why get offended.....its true. If the things you are into are vanilla why get offended....its true.

I think the problem is not that people find being called Vanilla is derogatory.. but no one wants to be told that they are not unique or special and they think the word vanilla means ordinary or normal. Um I hate to burst anyone's bubble but thats exactly what vanilla means. You are normal.. there is nothing wrong with being normal anymore than there is something wrong with being other than normal.

Here's the thing.. vanilla is a base line starting point.. there is nothing wrong with it, its simply where everything starts. Just like with ice cream.. everything starts with the vanilla flavor and then you add the other ingredience to make it different.

Now.. do you think chocolate is wrong or broken? its no more wrong or broken than cherry or strawberry.. its just different. So why is it that vanilla couples feel this term means they are something lesser than someone like me who enjoys being tied up, spanked or controlled? There is nothing lesser about being vanilla, there is only differences.

If you feel that being vanilla is boring, try something different but if your ok with vanilla, then there's nothing wrong with that.. FOR YOU. Personally I want something that floats my boat so I go for the more extreme side of things. No I don't have anymore disturbing a childhood than anyone else I bet.. we all have things about our lives that i'm sure were not as pleasant as other things, but that doesn't mean i'm broken or twisted and sick because of it. It simply means i'm different from you. We are all unique and its when people try to say that one unique difference is wrong for everyone, that someone needs to be hit with the stupid stick.

Just because my kink isn't your kink doesn't mean your kink is any more or less important than mine.. it just means thats what floats your boat and it doesn't do a damn thing for me. So I would prefer to have the kink in my life so I don't just lay there looking at the ceiling tiles yawning and planning out my next grocery trip because FOR ME that is what would happen if I were to just have normal sex.

Oh and for the record.. Derrick Cannoli is my Master.. in SL AND in RL. I call him nothing BUT Master.. as a matter of fact I have a very difficult time using any other address when speaking to him. When I call him Master, that does not mean that at that very second that the word Master comes out of my mouth.. that I want to throw down on the rug in whatever room we are in and screw like bunnies. Its my way of showing respect for him in our lifestyle.. just like some of you call each other snuggle muffins or whatever. And yes I do call him Master no matter where we are.. if someone gets offended by it, I usually shrug and feel bad for them because they are so narrow minded as to close off any possibility of seeing things from another perspective and I just leave it alone.. however it doesn't stop me from continuing to do what I feel more comfortable doing and will always feel more comfortable doing because its who I am.

I'm not ashamed of being a slave and it doesn't mean i'm weak. LOL anyone who knows me or knows anything about me knows i'm ANYTHING but weak. It takes strength to stand on your own, it takes a hell of alot more strength to willingly bend your own will and submit to someone elses.. not to mention trust. But then again..thats just my opinion and my kink.. I dont have a problem with anyone elses so please try to be a little open minded and let others enjoy whatever floats their boats in peace.

Because maybe they dont' think of their own sex life as unspecial, basic or ordinary, even if you do.

Have you ever made ice cream? That's not true. Eh, tangental, I know.

Anyhow, I still think it's unreasonable for an outsider to apply a label to a group and then tell that very same group that they have no right to be offended at that label. Seems rather insensative to me. If some people who aren't into D/s are saying that they think "vanilla" is offensive, maybe you should argue less and listen more.

Is my goal here to be sensitive?....not even close. I'm simply stating a fact. If you are offended by having a vanilla relationship then perhaps you are not so proud of it.

A person can think of their relationship anyway they want it still wont change what it is. I'll still never understand how people can be offended by facts.

There is entirely too much coddling going on these days. I'm going to let you in on a little secret that most of you are missing, and this is not only for the vanilla lifestylers. Despite what everyone close to you has led you to believe.....the real world does NOT think you are special.

Stay tuned because later I will be telling you the truth about Santa Clause.

arrogant much?

Sorry, I didn't know sensitivity training was now mandatory just to live your life. Pardon us for not being sensitive to your needs. Next time I see a normal ordinary person who has nothing wrong with them, I'll make sure to install a handicap ramp for them and perhaps give them a special parking plaquard as well

and just when was it said that either myself or Derrick Cannoli canned the term "Vanilla"? If thats the case, perhaps someone owes us money everytime they use it.. I mean really if we are the ones responsible for the term as your implying, isn't that like Donald Trump saying he coined the phrase "Your Fired!". Maybe there's money in this sensitivity thing after all... hmm...

*calls her accountant*

why not goin back on topic?

Ohhh myy!! did I just dis handicap people? *looks shocked* I guess the shocking thing would be to state I AM HANDICAPED. Do I look distressed at the meer mention of a handicap ramp or plaquard? Wow.. perhaps some people are TOO sensitive.. have fun for a change.. go out and laugh a little.

Sometimes you just gotta laugh at your own shortcomings and not take things so damn seriously.

when someone tells me "didn't you hear a thing I just said? what are you fricken deaf or something?? um.. I usually just say "why yes I am, thank you for noticing."

That doesnt sound very sensitive of you.

I'm arrogant because I'm saying things that people wont tell you otherwise?

Doesnt matter much to me, doesnt change the fact that despite all the brainwashing that everyone is special....they are not.

I apparently hit the wrong button in my last post and the quote seemed to have gotten lost somehow.. but my whole deaf rant was in reference to the the comment about me listening more. If i was an overly sensitive person I would probably bitch at you and say that I am offiended that you would tell a deaf person to "listen" in a typed environment and that you should be more sensitive to the deaf community and use the proper terminology because your current verbage is upsetting to us. But then again, I don't speak for the deaf community and I'm not an overly sensitive person.. but I do think thats a really good way to show my point

Just relax everyone.. can't we all just get along? lol

Do you mean Santa Claus or The Santa Clause?

I don't feel "proud" of my sexuality any more than I feel "proud" of my taste in music or food. Pride is usually associated with those who have been discriminated against and therefore refuse to give in to social judgements of them. If you aren't doing anything society considers "abnormal" pride doesn't enter into it. When I do something, sexually, that may be considered... unusual, I don't care much what anyone thinks. But I don't identify myself exclusively with my sexual tastes. Nor am a discriminated against because of them, since they take place in private and I don't feel the need to tell anyone about it. It is different to me from being gay, for instance, although I know some people are 24/7 into D/s and may disagree.

Look, you don't personally care if people call you a pervert that's fine for YOU. But not for most people I've met who are into D/s. Not coming from those who aren't into it. I'm just making a point from someone who can see this from both sides. I wouldn't use a word that someone found personally demeaning around them, because I wasn't raised to be a jerk, frankly. Vanilla isn't a "fact", it's a bean. (And nothing is added to it to make chocolate, btw, that is the cocoa bean.)

Anyway, this whole thing is getting silly. I never meant to imply the use of the term is a big deal, but I did want to point out that it isn't as meaningless as you insist.

My opinion is that you're veering toward the dark side of political correctness. I.e. the side that tries to make sure nobody is ever offended at the expense of making language impossible, obscure, and sometimes just plain silly.

I don't think being an insider to a group gives you any special naming rights. Call yourself what you want and if it is appropriate and sensible maybe it will stick. Some terms are patently offensive, but most are in a grey area. A typical example of this is "asian" vs. "oriental." Or even "African-American" vs. "black".

When someone uses the term "vanilla" I know basically what they mean, and I can't think of a term that is less inherently offensive (to both "vanilla" and non-"vanilla" groups). The only serious suggestion I've seen here is "non-D/s" which is really, really bad. Not only does it have a very narrow meaning (not equivalent with "vanilla", but it is cumbersome and awkward (like most PC-speak).

I use the term "asian" not because I really agree that "oriental" is offensive, but since it does seem bother a few people and there is a fine alternative why not use it? There is no alternative in this case, that I'm aware of and I personally won't change my speech (especially in an internet forum) just because a few people are IMO oversensitive.

I don't mind being called a pervert, or bald, or short, or gay, or a Jew, or even German, by people who obviously mean no ill will and who I don't believe have any real prejudice. People who do take offense, are IMO oversensitive as I described in the previous post.

I don't mind good samaritans informing me that the terms I use might cause offense, but I expect them to listen when I explain why I think the term is not offensive.

I tend to agree. In fact, my first thought on seeing "non-D/s" was, "Oh my -- and if I don't use that term, will that be doubleplus ungood?"

What never ceases to amaze me is this apparent obsession with either one extreme or the other. We must, it seems, either ruthlessly butcher the English language into unrecognizability in a hopeless quest to avoid offending absolutely anyone, no matter how oversensitive ...

... or ...

We must be slobbering, grunting troglodytes who couldn't care less whom we offend -- who may even take pride in being offensive.

I'm exaggerating, of course. But it just seems sometimes like people have difficulty with the concept of being decently civilized without being obnoxiously PC. Is it really so complicated ...?

Interesting that you quote a definition that doesn't agree with your own. And for what it's worth, in the BDSM world in real, everybody I know refers to themselves as kinky or 'a perve'. It is a badge worn with pride.

Although your PC will cause you problems if you are talking to someone from Great Britain. Over here 'asian' means coming from the Indian Sub-Continent, and 'oriental' has no pejorative connotations.

I think maybe you should go back and reread your previous post where you gave the definition of vanilla. Vanilla is as much an adjective as it is a bean. I say it is a fact they are vanilla in the same way I say its a fact that Shaq is tall.

I agree with this, though I think I fit in the second set of people as far as not caring whom I offend. Now I dont use racial slurs, I dont make fun of people, so no I dont go out of my way to offend people. Its when they get all uppity about normal speech that I really dont care how offended they are.

I'm not sure about other countries, but I know this sensitivity bullshit is ruining America. Most times you have people so worried about being sensitive to peoples needs that they never say what they really mean...now lets break that down, basically.....they are liars. We have kids growing up competing in watered down sports that give trophies for last place because we want them to think they are just as good as the first place team.....I'm sorry but you're not, so lets break this down. With normal sports where only the winner gets a trophy it tells the kids they need to work harder so they can get a trophy. With the new watered down bullshit it tells the kids that there is no need to work because you already are a winner....WRONG. Competition is good it fuels peoples desire to be better so they can be on top. This over-sensitive movement is killing competition because they dont want to offend anyone by telling them they lost, so they are lied to and told they are equal.

People are not equal, there are winners and losers...and theres absolutely nothing to be offended about if you lose...it simply means you need to work harder.

WOW this went totally in a direction I wasnt expecting.

this isn't meant to inflame the people who feel we need to be more sensitive.. i'm just passing on one small gem of wisdom I learned as a child on the playground...

Sticks and stones
may break my bones
but names never hurt me

The bad part is that you say your exaggerating, but in truth you almost aren't. There does seem to be a polarization of extremist views especially on the internet. My views tend more towards the "Who gives a damn" in that what other people do honestly doesn't bother me all that much.

I don't really think about it. I've never had cause to search deep within my soul and think "Is dom/sub right/wrong bad/good" because honestly, I simply don't care. To me one of the simple beauties of second life is the ability of each person to "Do their own thing" and there is a sizeable enough landmass to where you can find a spot where you can "Do your own thing" and be amongst people of similar mindsets. Considering the size and diversity of areas I don't understand the urge to push a mindset on anyone.

I especially don't understand the "Anti" this or that folks that actively seek confrontation.

Maybe we need to just boil the argument down to its basest solution. Some folks may not agree with the ways of others, but they should at least respect eachother as human beings. I may not like my uncle who is an ex con, but when I'm in situations where I have to deal with him I remain pleasant.