The Chosen Ones Have Been Announced
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crucial Armitage
Clothing Designer
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 838
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06-14-2006 15:30
From: Siggy Romulus How is it unfair?
Seriously - how... if people you liked were picked would it be different? Would that be 'fair' or would that be the same deal from a different angle?
And who said it had to be 'fair' anyways? They picked a consulting group... as a business thats their right.
The fact that they decided to share with us who that is says something for the company - because with all the flak they will get no matter what they do - the logical thing is to just go ahead and STFU about it.
But instead they post the info and cop a bunch of flack. just got home form work and read through most of this and then i get to siggys post it summed up everything i was thinking WELL MOSTLY heres my take on this discussion Linden labs has done this and hand selected 7 of the 8 individuals for specific reasons to help THEM (LINDEN LAB) betere there platform not any of you. if you think that these people were chose to represent any group or groups of people for the sake of said groups of people you are sadly mistake. Second life views is to get input from people that Linden labs thinks can help THEM (LINDEN LAB) make there business better. the FUCKING jealousy in this thread is revolting and makes me want to FUCKING PUKE so just face IT YOU WERE NOT PICKED DEAL WITH IT AND SFTU ALREADY and yes i ahd one of the worst days i could have had today. on a side note hey JENN I am still waiting for my fucktard award ! |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-14-2006 15:31
From: Cristiano Midnight So in your magical world of no money and SL powered by fairy dust, where pray tell does the income and the content come from? The goodness of everyone's heart? I've said before and I'll say it again..... I don't have a problem with people being rewarded for making good stuff, its when SL becomes a full time job and income is when it becomes a problem. As for content coming from the goodness of heart? I can't speak for anyone else but mine is. By the way, just to clarify, I have nothing specifically against any of those picked for this event - its the principle I am objecting to, of 8 people supposedly speaking for everyone else when it's clear they are not a representative cross-section of the community. Lewis |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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06-14-2006 15:31
From: Cocoanut Cookie
I hate the method of dividing the populace in order to maintain control over them
Yeah, it's such a shame that some paint it that way, isn't it, rather than being happy that there is an MMO company that gives enough of a damn about it's user base to actually interact with them in a non Godlike fashion? I think we're all a bit spoiled by it, but some of us just aren't able to see that.
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Jennyfur Peregrine
Whatever
Join date: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,151
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06-14-2006 15:33
From: Cocoanut Cookie
You will notice, though, that I can disagree with you on the issues, without calling you an attention whore, or any other name, putting you down personally, or engaging in any emotional and overblown speculation about "keeping you up nights," etc.
coco
That is a bold-faced lie and you know it. Everytime you play the FIC card you deliberatly offend and intend to offend those of us you so easily categorize as such. FIC is not a term meant to be a compliment as I stated before. It is calling names because as soon as you invoke the FIC all of its associations come along with it, such as being an elitist snob, being self-serving, rumors of favoritism, undue credit and so on and so forth. Calling someone FIC is an insult and its about time you understand that.
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Jopsy Pendragon
Perpetual Outsider
Join date: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,906
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06-14-2006 15:36
From: Lewis Nerd The truth can sometimes be hard to handle. If it's just one person saying it, then that's an individual with an issue.... but when you have many, many people saying the same thing, that is a collective community voice speaking out against an issue of concern.
That's what Linden Labs should be listening to - not 8 hand picked unrepresentative 'pets'. Just a reminder. The U.S.'s Constitution's First Amendment Right of Free Speech does NOT apply to Linden Lab. They can listen to or ignore anyone they choose. You aren't a share holder in their company, you don't get to vote on policy. We are customers. Our ONLY inalienable right is the ability to walk away. You think you have Truth and you want LL to listen up? Learn how to say things in ways that are worth listening to. Now... Will someone please lock this thread before I get myself banned from the forums for an egregious violation of forum etiquette? |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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06-14-2006 15:37
From: Lewis Nerd its when SL becomes a full time job and income is when it becomes a problem. A problem for who? You've said it's not a job to you, so go do your thing. Quit trying to dictate how others run their Second Lives. Why is it a problem to you if some people use it as income? There is no mandate that we must be capitalists here, hell, for 75% of my time in SL I have been a bum, but that doesn't make me entitled to tell LL or other resis how they should manage their business or spare time. No one is forcing you to do anything, Lewis.
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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06-14-2006 15:38
From: Jillian Callahan Here's the thing...
I don't honestly belive LL is after information from these folk - at least not after anythig they don't already get from the other sundry avenues for feedback already in place.
This is a PR thing - and maybe a little reward/giftie for folks they like or see as representative of what they want in SL.
It's been mentioned several times bu a couple of folk that this seems to go against some of thier marketing hype - and the argument holds some water. Before I got thinking about it, this engendered feeligs in me of excitement and a feeling that there was some chance I'd get to go. Pretty cool feelings, and exactly the sort of thing marketing is looking to make happen.
So... Where no doubt they will be listened to and thier opinions and ideas noted, it is my suspicion that the primary function of this exercise is to engender those feelings of excitement and interest in SL.
Becasue, really - can we honestly expect that they really belive calling on eight people from thier customer base will get them the sort of information they need to succeed as a business? Right. Yeah. We know that... 1. LL aren't dumb (they may make mistakes and get the wrong end of the stick sometimes, but we all do that, and they attract and hire pretty bright people generally); 2. this exercise patently won't ever be good for gathering general information about the opinions and desires of residents. Picking seven people plus one "random" one and having them flown along to a discussion group? No way, that's not how you get reliable information about what people think, even if you've got superhuman powers to avoid bias, which you don't; 3. given that they're not dumb, they can't be expecting this to be any sort of representative resident survey or anything. I'm a bit sceptical of this idea that it's to engender excitement and interest in SL though, as it's too small-scale. I mean, it's engendered a bit of forum drama but hell, less than some random change in the way L$ are sold or something. That could still be the *intended* reason though. Really, at this stage, we don't know a lot. I think we know that it's not about "resident empowerment" but what the reason really is... eh. We'll have to wait to see what they talked about and what, if anything, happens. All I know right now is that "this will not end well". |
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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06-14-2006 15:39
From: Cocoanut Cookie To answer Jillian, I know why I have such strong opinions on these matters. It's cause a top-down system of the King and his Chosen Court drives me nuts. (I used to think the "King Philip" thing was cute, but no more.) Creating an official F.I.C. drives me nuts. Different rules for different folks drives me nuts. All this said was you have strong feelings about it becasue... you hagve strong feelings about it. o.O From: Cocoanut Cookie This is not just "a private company." The spa my girl is working out in right now is "a private company," sure. It also has customers. Just like LL does. Customers which it either treats fairly, with some semblance of equality, or it goes out of business. If it selects its favorite customers, gives them free trips, and tells them they are going to get to run things at the spa on an advisory committe from now on, well no - the other customers aren't going to like it.
As for those who have strong opinions on the other side of this, like Surreal, I think many of them, too, secretly realize there is something wrong with this picture, even if they don't quite realize they realize it.
It is a wrong thing to pit some customers against others in the way this advisory committee and the trips to S.F. are doing. And I don't mean just pitting me, for instance, against Surreal. I mean pitting everyone against each other. Putting those who might want to be chosen up against the others who are equally desirous and deserving.
I hate the method of dividing the populace in order to maintain control over them, and doling out treats to those who behave as desired, and this whole thing has that aspect to it. Wait a while, and you'll see more of what I mean.
It's hard to feel good about something you think you have gained unfairly. Flattered, yes. Deserving, yes. You know you are talented. You know you deserve the gig.
But if you didn't get it fairly, it is never going to be totally untainted.
It is not those criticizing it that ruins your pleasure in it. It is the fact that the process is a bad one, and the philosophy behind it is bad. That is what taints it for you. Not what I or anyone else says.
And for those who think a bit more deeply than others, in the back of their minds, they know that.
coco It kills me that you don't recognise that all businesses tend to treat thier customers without equity. It's just that quite often you don't get to see it. I'd be willing to bet that that spa in your example throws in perks for big customers - for instance giving a large business owner a deeper discount or sending token gifts to a human resourcess director. There are reasons for doing this, in this case becasue these customers attract other customers or have sway in other's decisions. No business exists for the sake of justice and fairness - they exist for profit. You don't make profit by being perfectly equitable, you have to treat your big spenders in whatever way gets them to keep spending. Now, if LL was actually screwing someone over with this deal, you'd have a point. But all they are doing is tossing out some perks to add incentive - that's it. |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-14-2006 15:42
From: Jopsy Pendragon Just a reminder.
The U.S.'s Constitution's First Amendment Right of Free Speech does NOT apply to Linden Lab. I'm not a US citizen, screw the constitution. Lewis |
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Isablan Neva
Mystic
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 2,907
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06-14-2006 15:43
Personally, what I think everyone in this thread is forgetting is that none of us outside of LL sees the real magnitude of SL. We only see our small corner and the parts we are interested in; we aren’t seeing the island applications for the disabled, educational components, corporate communication platforms, etc.. We aren’t in on the conversations with investors, developers or any of the other people who are actually going to dictate what direction SL moves in.
There is national politics and local politics and most people care more about their local politics (ZOMG Stipends! ZOMG FIC! ZOMG Babies in Boxes! ZOMG Event Support!) rather than where the ship is headed. None of us is able to look at the big picture in the way that LL is looking at the big picture and none of us really knows what drives the decision making process. We assume that anything that is bad for us or our friends individually is bad for SL as a whole and that just isn’t the case.
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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06-14-2006 15:46
From: Lewis Nerd Last I heard, Second Life was far, far away from being profitable.
Lewis That must have been a long, long time ago  |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-14-2006 15:47
From: Nolan Nash There is no mandate that we must be capitalists here, hell, for 75% of my time in SL I have been a bum, but that doesn't make me entitled to tell LL or other resis how they should manage their business or spare time. It is virtually impossible to achieve any form of success within SL unless you have either: a) a lot of money to start with, or b) a lot of land (see #1) Any idiot with a lump of cash can buy an island, buy a tringo set, put down a dozen camping chairs, give away bribes to get people to visit, and success is virtually guaranteed because of the catchment area of an island and the way traffic is calculated. Pit that against me with my little 4096 sq m (plus a 512) and all I can do is build and hope someone wanders by. I have classifieds, I pay for parcel listings, yet people don't come, because there's no free money giveaways or sex. People like me make up the vast majority of the playerbase - yet I see nothing for us, yet pandering to people who pay lots of money each month. No, it's not fair, no there's not much I can do about it - but I wonder if LL even care that we exist, let alone want to help us. Lewis |
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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06-14-2006 15:48
From: Ordinal Malaprop Right. Yeah. We know that...
1. LL aren't dumb (they may make mistakes and get the wrong end of the stick sometimes, but we all do that, and they attract and hire pretty bright people generally);
2. this exercise patently won't ever be good for gathering general information about the opinions and desires of residents. Picking seven people plus one "random" one and having them flown along to a discussion group? No way, that's not how you get reliable information about what people think, even if you've got superhuman powers to avoid bias, which you don't;
3. given that they're not dumb, they can't be expecting this to be any sort of representative resident survey or anything.
I'm a bit sceptical of this idea that it's to engender excitement and interest in SL though, as it's too small-scale. I mean, it's engendered a bit of forum drama but hell, less than some random change in the way L$ are sold or something. That could still be the *intended* reason though.
Really, at this stage, we don't know a lot. I think we know that it's not about "resident empowerment" but what the reason really is... eh. We'll have to wait to see what they talked about and what, if anything, happens. All I know right now is that "this will not end well". I was about to say "Yes. Time will tell." but it occurs to me that LL has something of a habit of taking failed ideas and kicking them under the carpet... so maybe we will have nothing but speculation at the end of it. Ah well. |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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06-14-2006 15:48
From: crucial Armitage heres my take on this discussion
Linden labs has done this and hand selected 7 of the 8 individuals for specific reasons to help THEM (LINDEN LAB) betere there platform not any of you. if you think that these people were chose to represent any group or groups of people for the sake of said groups of people you are sadly mistake.
Second life views is to get input from people that Linden labs thinks can help THEM (LINDEN LAB) make there business better.
Much better summary - thanks 
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-14-2006 15:49
From: Eggy Lippmann That must have been a long, long time ago A couple of months? Possibly from Phil Linden at a town hall, I don't remember exactly. Lewis |
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Cory Edo
is on a 7 second delay
Join date: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,851
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06-14-2006 15:50
From: Lewis Nerd It is virtually impossible to achieve any form of success within SL unless you have either:
a) a lot of money to start with, or
b) a lot of land (see #1)
Wow. Where you getting THAT one from? - just went Premium last month
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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06-14-2006 15:52
From: Cocoanut Cookie You will notice, though, that I can disagree with you on the issues, without calling you an attention whore, or any other name, putting you down personally, or engaging in any emotional and overblown speculation about "keeping you up nights," etc. *shrug* I call it like I see it. If you don't like it, hey - you know where the ignore button is.
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Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004
Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)
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Jennyfur Peregrine
Whatever
Join date: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,151
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06-14-2006 15:52
From: Eggy Lippmann That must have been a long, long time ago Seriously, like when before last week? I kind of remember one of the recent articles on CNET talking about how LL is just now in the process of becoming profitable.
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~Jennyfur~http://jennyfurperegrine.wordpress.com/ http://slcc2007.wordpress.com/ Deadly Nightshade Design Studio (Indigo 86,61) Jennyfur's Designs on SLBoutique
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crucial Armitage
Clothing Designer
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 838
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06-14-2006 15:51
From: Siggy Romulus Much better summary - thanks My pleasure |
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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06-14-2006 15:52
From: Lewis Nerd It is virtually impossible to achieve any form of success within SL unless you have either:
a) a lot of money to start with, or
b) a lot of land (see #1)
Any idiot with a lump of cash can buy an island, buy a tringo set, put down a dozen camping chairs, give away bribes to get people to visit, and success is virtually guaranteed because of the catchment area of an island and the way traffic is calculated.
Pit that against me with my little 4096 sq m (plus a 512) and all I can do is build and hope someone wanders by. I have classifieds, I pay for parcel listings, yet people don't come, because there's no free money giveaways or sex.
People like me make up the vast majority of the playerbase - yet I see nothing for us, yet pandering to people who pay lots of money each month. No, it's not fair, no there's not much I can do about it - but I wonder if LL even care that we exist, let alone want to help us.
Lewis I started with a quarterly premium and 512 meters. I don't sell sex nor do I run a club... yet somehow I managed to expand quite a bit - now with my SOs we have almost a third of a sim for our airport. So, I disagree strongly that only the rich get richer. |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-14-2006 15:58
From: Cory Edo Wow. Where you getting THAT one from? Observation, experience and conversations in-world. Lewis |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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06-14-2006 16:03
From: Jennyfur Peregrine Seriously, like when before last week? I kind of remember one of the recent articles on CNET talking about how LL is just now in the process of becoming profitable. So it makes even more sense to put together a focus group of people who represent different aspects of SL and share the vision of where you want to take it then. I guess thats the bottom line - these folks in some way share the same goals and visions as LL - and for whatever reason LL wishes to hear what they have to say. One of those picked was pretty vocal on Robins blog about what a bad idea it was - so I guess they're not after 'yes men' either. I'd be interested to see the outcome of it all - and remember it is a beginning. Then again I also remember a certain group that was formed in SL of people who saw themselves as above the 'tourists' of the world who wanted give input - but that was AOK and hunky dory If I recall correctly a couple of them are in this thread.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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06-14-2006 16:05
From: Lewis Nerd It is virtually impossible to achieve any form of success within SL unless you have either:
a) a lot of money to start with, or
b) a lot of land (see #1)
Any idiot with a lump of cash can buy an island, buy a tringo set, put down a dozen camping chairs, give away bribes to get people to visit, and success is virtually guaranteed because of the catchment area of an island and the way traffic is calculated.
Pit that against me with my little 4096 sq m (plus a 512) and all I can do is build and hope someone wanders by. I have classifieds, I pay for parcel listings, yet people don't come, because there's no free money giveaways or sex.
People like me make up the vast majority of the playerbase - yet I see nothing for us, yet pandering to people who pay lots of money each month. No, it's not fair, no there's not much I can do about it - but I wonder if LL even care that we exist, let alone want to help us.
Lewis Ferran and I started with 365m we bagged in a land grab, now we have an island. Except for $16 I spent once in an auction, every bit of that land was bought by proceeds from our business. We support our sim today that way. We started small, worked hard, had a product people wanted (not sex or gambling btw). We still provide free vendor space to around 50 people and at any given time we have 20 or so with build permissions on our island. So not only have we been successful, but we have shared our success with others. Succeeding in SL is like succeeding anywhere. It takes a good flexible plan, a lot of long hours and hard work, skills or the willingness to aquire them, and a bit of luck. Provided you count success as having an established profitable business. There is room for all kind of success here. One of the things I really love about SL.
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Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004
Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)
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Nyx Divine
never say never!
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,052
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06-14-2006 16:06
From: Siggy Romulus Then again I also remember a certain group that was formed in SL of people who saw themselves as above the 'tourists' of the world who wanted give input - but that was AOK and hunky dory If I recall correctly a couple of them are in this thread. Oh no fair, bringing that shit up will ruin the whole 'but I speak for the good of all' mindset.
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Yes Virginia there is an FIC!
If someone shows you who they are.....believe them!
Don't be afraid to go out on a limb, because that's where the fruit is!
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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06-14-2006 16:06
From: Lewis Nerd It is virtually impossible to achieve any form of success within SL unless you have either:
a) a lot of money to start with, or
b) a lot of land (see #1)
Any idiot with a lump of cash can buy an island, buy a tringo set, put down a dozen camping chairs, give away bribes to get people to visit, and success is virtually guaranteed because of the catchment area of an island and the way traffic is calculated.
Pit that against me with my little 4096 sq m (plus a 512) and all I can do is build and hope someone wanders by. I have classifieds, I pay for parcel listings, yet people don't come, because there's no free money giveaways or sex.
People like me make up the vast majority of the playerbase - yet I see nothing for us, yet pandering to people who pay lots of money each month. No, it's not fair, no there's not much I can do about it - but I wonder if LL even care that we exist, let alone want to help us.
Lewis Ahh I see, so your definition of fun, which you keep telling us is the reason you are here, is money and land. You are inconsistent.  If you're really here to just have fun, and don't care about the finance aspect, why rag on those who are here for different reasons? If you don't like the way LL runs their business, and even admit there's not much you can do about it, why to you torture yourself?
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