The Chosen Ones Have Been Announced

I don't believe they meant that each time a new group is selected that everyone will come out to San Francisco again.

What they meant was, each time a new group is chosen, that group will come to S.F. - once.

After the one face-to-face meeting, then they just stay on the permanent committee, without needing to come to S.F. again. I believe the idea is the meet-and-greet portion will make future communications smoother.

The growing advisory committee would then be consulted in other ways.

coco

LL should compile those folks bios.

That's exactly what I'm looking for

Its called reality Coco and that is just the way things are. Its always been this way as far as I can tell unless you live in a vacuum there is always some perceived levels of popularity. I didn't make the rules. Heck, I don't even follow them and mostly don't care about popularity levels. But, you know what, that doesn't make them non-existent because speaking in terms of who is more popular or more FIC than someone else is immature etc.

Do I consider myself popular? To be honest, not really, and I have many issues with being considered popular. Its like it was thrust upon me by others because 1) we know alot of those considered to be FIC 2) we know a lot of Lindens 3) we run successful businesses in SL 4) that whole convention thing. 5) press opportunities.... do I need to go on?

You obviously consider me to be popular to some extent. if I am part of the FIC aka the privleged popular ones who get special favors from LL.

Stella Costello (the mysterious 8th pick) is a sculptor and artist in SL. She has an amazing talent and a hell of an imagination. I would assume she was picked because she works extensively with the building tools and would have good insight into changes that would make the interface easier to use. She has a really cool shop, check her picks inworld and check it out - its really beautiful.

So, if you ran Linden Lab... you'd do what? Sit in your little office all day going "LA LA LA LA... I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!"

Get real.

Frankly, I can't blame the Linden Lab folks for being PICKY about who they invite over for a feedback session considering the volume of hateful BILE and rubbish that gets voiced on these forums.

Honestly? I can't wait for SecondLife to have a serious competitor so that "Down with the Man!" malcontents like you can storm off in a huff and have some place to go...

... instead of coming back over and over to fuss and bicker about things in ways that have no hope of changing anything.


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Okay. So maybe I've had a little too much coffee today.

They should publish the criteria by which they were chosen.

I think I asked that, but I didn't get a response.

Again, not to slag off the people chosen, I really am sure they're great folk. The few whom I've met have been absolutely sound. This isn't about them, it's about the process.

I don't know any of them particularly well, but I do know Alliez well enough to say that she is a very selfless, caring person. She's probably done more for new people in SL than anyone I know. She's run her own sims, had one of the best low-lag clubs ever (because I like oldies), and always has time to answer questions from strangers. She may have been a mentor at one time (or still is), I don't really know. But she has the perfect temperament to be one. If you want someone in this group who has SL's interests at heart, she's your girl.

No, Jennifer, I don't consider you "popular." I consider you fairly well-known, which I am also, and definitely "in" with the Lindens.

It is impossible to judge popularity in a place like SL, where there are whole worlds of people, each with their own popular figures, that we have never even heard of. (And they have never heard of us.) About the only person I could safely attach the word "popular" to in SL would be Torley.

In any case, popularity has nothing to do with any of this about being chosen for the Advisory Committee, does it?

I think our difficulty here stems from different notions of "FIC." My idea of the FIC has never been about popularity whatsoever. (Nor about conspiracies.) It has always been - by my definition - those residents who get special perks, privileges, and opportunities from the Lindens. Which they do and always have.

And this is a case of that in spades.

coco

I never bought into the idea that it's reasonable to expect LL to manage anything resembling unbiased neutrality toward its customers, so this feeback comittee thing doesn't bother me much (other than a mild envy at the free trip to San Fransico, one of my favorite citys).

It astonishes me the strong reactions here, all sides.

I am powerfully curious: Coco, Ordinal and Lewis, what would your suggested alternative methods be for getting more direct feeback from the cusomer base about SL?

The truth can sometimes be hard to handle. If it's just one person saying it, then that's an individual with an issue.... but when you have many, many people saying the same thing, that is a collective community voice speaking out against an issue of concern.

That's what Linden Labs should be listening to - not 8 hand picked unrepresentative 'pets'.

Lewis

So, is this the New FIC? I still don't know who the old FIC is, though, and wouldn't recognize the names, either.

Ah, it's so nice to be new and uninvolved with politics...

Town Halls seem to work reasonably well... answering all the questions (even if not during the meeting itself) would be useful.

You could also have someone reading the forums and making a note of what issues seem to be the hot topics and concerns, and actually giving feedback. I know Torley is doing a reasonable job but she can only respond to what she's allowed to I guess.

There is no overall community spirit in SL. Lots of communities yes, but no overall feeling of "we are in this together".

Acknowledging people are here for reasons other than making money would be a good start.

Lewis

While this is most certainly true, wouldn't it be useful to nab someone that has been learning to build recently and isn't so smooth at it to help figure out how to make it easier to use?

Why do the anti-folks feel so entitled? Why do they think that their vocal minority should hold sway over LL policy, yet when LL culls a feedback group to solicit input, these folks scream "FIC!" Why is it that these folks are the ones who write letters to Philip and Robin all the time, so sure of themselves and their own personal visions of how SL should be, demanding that LL follow their advice, yet they can't stand it when LL creates a program to do basically the same thing, yet with more people, and very transparently at that?

This is a company selling a product.

If they feel so inclined, I am of the mind that it's their baby, que sera, sera.

If this helps to build a better PRODUCT, I am all for it. I really see that as the intent here, despite the fact that the usual black helicopter seeing nellies are lining up to waggle fingers.

Just because some of us lease server space from them doesn't make us taxpaying citizens with the right to demand control over how LL runs their business.

Lewis, you really are something else. Decrying the picks because you "think" no one could possibly represent us, while stating on Robin's blog that they should have picked you.

I'd be a lot more use to them than a lot of people, that's for sure.

My feet are planted firmly on the ground, and I take SL at face value - a game, entertainment. None of this commerce crap, no metaverse, no 3D web stuff... plain and simple.

And you know what? I care about SL. I care about its future. I care about its residents, current and not yet signed up. How many people here are just caring about profit?

Lewis

I think people are concerned with whether this builds a better product for them or for the few individuals given the chance at giving input.

I wish they'd picked me, not for any input I could give, but for a free holiday in San Francisco.

There are various possible mechanisms - it depends on precisely what information one is trying to get. Standard focus groups work for some things, for other things, there are public meetings, different types of collaborative software etc.

Note that we don't actually *know* what information LL are trying to get out of this, they've not published an agenda or actually any details at all as to what people are being called out to SF for.

None of the techniques involve picking the people you want to hear from beforehand.

This really is on target. Criteria and qualifications are indicators of the purpose and direction which the groupis intended for. It's like a posted job description; the position title is big clue but details about a particular scope of the job as well as the requirements are what gives a feel for the fit. I don't expect to be invited to sit in on a board meeting but companies readily provide bios on the board members as a matter of course. What's the big deal about asking questions about the program?


This sure reminds of the whole Metaverse Awards thingy; endeavoring to make sure that the honorees understood that it wasn't about them but the process. Accusations of sour grapes, jealousy emerged there, too. It's easy to get sidetracked into flame wars. All the while, people who are honestly interested in answers to the questions which are posed and are without any malice drift away.

Unfortunately LL views their system differently.

They view it as a platform, a commercial venture, and they have said they don't think it's a game at all. They see it as a 3d WWW and a metaverse thingie.

Personally I don't look at SL the way they do either - I view it more like a box of interactive Lego. But at the end of the day that's LL view on it.

So if thats the view they have on it - and the direction they wish to go - doesn't it make sense to consult people who share the same vision and use the product every day to find how to better move it along that track?

From their point of view I'm sure it's a smart move, and what you view as strengths may be diametrically opposed to the direction they wish to travel.

Says who? You? Who the fuck are you in the scheme of things? Just a single user with no particular expertise in anything.

If I were Linden Lab I would pick people who:

1. Excelled at something.
2. Were likely to the knowledge/insight I want for this particular goal.
3. Hadn't already demonstrated that they are pains in the ass.

You can rag on Flip all you like, but he has some serious expertise in running a webbiz that interfaces with SL. If LL wanted opinions concerning integrating web with SL, then you can bet he'd be on that group. Just like Anshe would be a pick for question about real estate & SL.

Jopsy said it best


A business, not a country, not a democracy. You don't get to decide what their business decisions are. You can complain, you do that very well. Or, you can vote with your feet if SL doesn't meet your needs - that's all the average customer gets to do. If you want to decide what Linden Lab does, get a big pile of cash and buy them. A really, really big pile of cash.

In my opinion, you have a vastly inflated sense of your own importance in relationship to SL. One that most of us don't share. I didn't expect to get picked. But then I know that although I'm pretty decent at design, I have no special insight. It's not keeping me up nights - but then I'm not an attention whore.

You really need to learn to not hold back, Jennyfur.

test

You also have many, many people speaking in favor of it. Why is it that your discontent is somehow indicative of how "they community" feels, but not those who support it. The discontent about these kinds of things is always from the same handful of people - you can set your watch by who is going to wail about FIC this and FIC that all the time.